Roody

Here's a pair of articles suggesting that the decline in driving has more to do with technology than the economy:

https://www.theatlanticcities.com/com...-economy/6706/

https://www.theatlanticcities.com/com...-driving/7080/

no1mad 

Okay, I removed a few comments from various members due to the ankle biting.

mrodgers

I will say, I am here because I am interested in what you city folks do. I'd never do it because I'd never live packed into the city, but it is interesting to me.

Just out of curiosity, how many miles on average do you folks ride yearly on your bikes living car free in the city? My wife drives 25,000 miles and I drive 20,000 miles a year, thus we have cars, they are necessary. Those mileage numbers are pretty much only work and my wife going grocery shopping along with the occasional taking her Mom somewhere or grandmother to the doctor. My wife certainly couldn't ride a bike 35 miles one way to go get groceries once a week. It's bad enough that it takes us 45 minutes to get anywhere in a car.

I'll say again though, it is interesting. Not sure I like the bias that was mentioned, I certainly don't want to be forced to live in the city because of cars going away like you folks often talk about and definitely don't want anything to do with driverless cars such as that thread that is going on. It's bad enough I have a hard enough time finding a car that allows me to select the proper gear and with how crappy all the other automatic stuff is (I can't even decide if I'm being blinded by the car behind me at night any more) I don't see driverless cars being much different.

Tonight I walked out the back door and into the yard and startled 2 deer. They started to run then stopped. I slowly moved my way through the yard until I was about 30 feet way from them and watched them for a good 20 minutes before they caught my scent or something and ran away. I'd miss that in the city, LOL.

Artkansas 

I do have to go further. About half way through my daily ride there is a herd of 8-13 deer that I usually see. They are pretty accustomed to seeing people.

MEversbergII

Lexington Park is about as "City" as Saint Mary's (Suh'ain't Mhurry's to the locals) gets, but it's far from "city".

M.

Roody

I don't think I ever saw it written on this forum that all cars will be done away with. I think cities (including suburbs) should start thinking about severely restricting them. I imagine people in the farming and wilderness areas will continue to use them for the foreseeable future.

I do hope that rural people people with cars are conservation minded. I hope you all use your car efficiently and as sparingly as possible. I know you don't like the new cars, but they do pollute a little less and they last a lot longer.

BTW, I have seen deer (a lot) and even coyotes, foxes and a bobcat within a couple miles of my house in the city.

Ekdog

Too bad the car-centric lifestyle that folks like you advocate is having such a devastating effect on wildlife. Sprawl leads to habitat loss and the roadkill numbers are astonishing:

4 million
Miles of roads in the United States.

226 million
Number of vehicles registered in the United States.

23 trillion
Vehicle miles traveled in the United States in 2002

6.3 million
Number of automobile accidents annually in the United States

253,000
Number of animal-vehicle accidents annually

50
Estimated percentage of vehicle-large animal collisions that go unreported.

90
Percentage of animal-vehicle collisions that involve deer

$2,000
Average minimum cost for repairing a vehicle after a collision with a deer

1 million
Number of vertebrates run over each day in the United States (a rate of one every 11.5 seconds).

200
Number of human deaths annually resulting from vehicle-wildlife collisions.

6
Number of bears killed last year by vehicles in Yellowstone National Park.

1,559
Number of animals killed on Yellowstone National Park roads from 1989-2003. Figure includes 556 elk, 192 bison, 135 coyotes, 112 moose, 24 antelope and 3 bobcats.

2,349
Number of large animals killed on New Mexico roads in 2001. Figure includes 30 black bears, 160 elk and 600 deer.

51,000
Number of vertebrates killed in and around Saguaro National Park by automobiles each year. Figure includes 1,400 birds, 6,500 mammals, 26,000 reptiles and 17,000 amphibians.

25,000
Number of Roadkill Bingo games sold by the Colorado company that invented the game.

https://www.hcn.org/issues/291/15268

Roody

Also you rarely see a wild animal when you're in a car--unless you're crashing into it. I see wildlife frequently when I'm walking or biking, even in the city.

Blue_Bulldog

I don't know that I've ever kept track of it, but I ride my bike pretty much equal distance to my car driving friends. So it's entirely conceivable that between getting from here to there (maybe 10mi a day), plus the riding I do for fun (20-50mi a week), plus zen/de-stressing rides (varies)... by 365 days?

two...
five...
twenty six....
carry the three....
twelve....
by ten....

Yeah, I'd say I do that, thereabouts. Know what I get for my troubles? Toned muscles, lower blood pressure, higher confidence and self esteem, fresh air, not having to care about insurance rates or gas prices, free parking everywhere, not having to search for parking (I can lock up to anything stationary, over 9' high, and under 3' in diameter), and another 20+ years of life.

You say 25,000 miles a year like its a bad thing. I think its pretty damned cool that I ride that much on the regular. Have fun in your car, but I'll take my commuter bike and fresh air.

I-Like-To-Bike

You were doing OK until you fabricated the factoid (or repeated someone else's fabrication) for the parting shot.

Blue_Bulldog

Sorry, forgot tone of voice doesnt make it through here. Tongue was very much in cheek for that.

DX-MAN

Well...DUH. This is the "Living Car Free" subforum.

Next time, hold back. Some of us here are car-lite (meaning we still have them, just use them as little as we can get away with), while others are straight-up car free (no car ownership and next to no USE of one, excluding of course the rare rental if needed).

If you love and need your car, roll on, playa; we here choose otherwise, and I'd guess that 97% of us made that decision after having EXPERIENCED car ownership. So you're not educating anyone.

One-sided, sure; we pretty much ALL fall on that one side of the question; BIASED? Not the right word. It implies an attitude not based in fact. (IF I was biased, I'd take this opportunity to slam you for owning a car, but I really don't care what you own or travel in/on.)

I was where you are once; I won't be again, though, that's set in stone.

Blue_Bulldog

I think you hit the nail between the eyes right there. There's a common misconception that we're like the Eco Jehovahs Witnesses and are trying to convert everyone to ditch their cars and live on a commune and eat tempeh and wheat grass. Yeah, no. If you wanna have a car, knock yourself out homeslice. I don't want one. And while I respect your right to drive your car (baby you can drive my car.... bah bah bah), I think all anyone here asks is for the same respect that we don't dig on cars so much. It's kind of like my stance on gun ownership. I'm a pacifist and don't believe in possessing weapons. But if you want a gun, I ask you please not point it at me, but go right ahead. Same concept. Enjoy your car, but don't infer that we're buttbrains for not having one. Just please don't point it at us.

Oh, and I must be in the 3%. I owned a car since I was 16. After I died and came back, I couldn't drive for a while because of the hypoxia induced brain damage. I found I kind of dug not having a car, then bought a bike, and was bit by the bug, and a completely car free life is yo ho yo ho the life for me. I guess all we ask is that it be respected.

Especially in a forum we made for ourselves to talk to ourselves about a life choice we all made for ourselves. This is our sanctuary from all the haterade. That's the other thing we ask be respected.

</rant>

GodsBassist

I don't mean to nit-pick. I agree with the notion presented, but I don't know how they got 23 trillion vmt in 2002. It seems closer to one tenth that.

boattail71

Mozad brings up some good points and the good debate. I'm fortunate to live and work close enough to the center of a large enough city to mostly LCF but I also enjoy the American way of being able to hop in my car (paid for and old enough to be cheap on insurance) and get out of town (sometimes even to ride my bike).

Curious - How many of you who don't own a car would change your tune if you landed a six-figure job that's 20 miles away? Or, for you enlightend types who would not accept that job on principle, what if you lived in a rural setting?

Roody

Do you think we are hippies? If it was a job I wanted, I would take it. If the commute was too long, I would move. Just like somebody with a car would do. Gosh, this isn't rocket surgery. It isn't self-sacrifice either. The main point of LCF is to make your own life better and more enjoyable.

As for rural living, there's more than one active thread on that topic right now. If interested, you might want to scroll through some of them, since your question is a little off-topic for this thread. Another option is to start a new thread with your question as the title.

Blue_Bulldog

I wouldn't.

Seriously, I wouldn't. I land a huge job like that or hit the lotto? I might buy a nicer bike (I'd still keep Mindy though. Because loyalty). I might get a nicer apartment. I would get season tickets to the Carolina Hurricanes. A new MacBook Pro. But I wouldn't get a car. If I needed to get far away, I'd go with a friend or if push comes to punch, rent a car.

As the OP mentioned, this thread is why we DON'T wanna own a car. I don't because it's a pain in my rear, and because I just don't wanna. Not to mention, if I landed a six figure job, it's probably not going to be somewhere rural. I live somewhere just slightly north of rural, and I can tell you the number of people here pulling down six figures is smaller than a list of Detroit Lions winning seasons. If you snag a six figure, you're going to an urban setting where no car is easier. And you can afford to live in the city. (Which would rule)

It's not principle. It's that I don't like owning a car. I don't eat cauliflower cause I think it's vomitacious. I don't own a car cause it's a pain. No principle.

boattail71

Roody, thanks for your opinion. Do I think you're hippies? I suppose some of us might be but certainly not all or most. Why ask? I just thought this would be a fun topic as LCF is a logical place for this and it relates to the discussion started/continued by Mozadd655 and Artkansas. Also, it's easy to post a query than to search don't you think? While this may have been discussed before it is new to me and probably many others. Sorry, seems I got you a little iritated; I did not mean to dis anyone. You may choose not to reply too but please respond if you have something constructive to add.

Alekhine

I live in a rural setting. And in a place where we get harsh winters too (just outside Buffalo, NY). I walk for miles and miles to get groceries in the winter if the roads aren't okay for bicycling. Not every car-free person is in the city.

Then again, I'm not sure I'm who you want to talk to about enlightened (principled, yes), etc. I never proselytize my lifestyle to anyone, nor tell anyone they should or shouldn't drive. Pretty useless.

Juha

No six figure job offer here, but we're waiting for daycare place info. Trust me, it's about the same. It may turn out to be a dealbreaker for us. If we get any of the closest 2-3 daycare places, we're good. But if it's further away, we're looking at putting the kid into private daycare, or buying a car.

I'm being fairly pragmatic about this, as I've always said we're car free because we don't need one, first and foremost. Everything else is a plus. But if that need arises, we'll be considering something that runs on locally produced fuel, which in practice means either bioethanol (flexifuel) or CNG. Anyone know of good studies on environmental impact of compressed methane production from communal biodegradeable waste?

--J

[edited for typoes]

Ekdog

Thanks for pointing that out. The point is that a hell of a lot of animals are killed by cars.

plustax

No studies on hand, but if this stuff like leaves and compost then methane production and subsequent combustion would result in Methane H2O and CO2.

Artkansas 

Anybody that cycles the streets at all knows that. We've all seen the flattened skunks, possums, squirrels, armadillos, turtles, birds, cats, dogs. It's good to put numbers on it though.

Roody

I will be happy to discuss at greater length when you start it as a topic on this LCF forum. We need new threads, and we need some of you newer members to do your share of the lifting by starting them. It's very easy to do!

wolfchild

One of my important priorities in life in to live close enough to work so that I can use my bike or public transit. I hate to be living far from work, been there done that and I don't like it. If I landed a six figure job far away, I would move closer so that I wouldn't have to drive. Why should I give up my lifestyle which I enjoy just for the sake of a six figure job ??