scarlson 

What's the big deal about pushing a bike? Bicycle Quarterly recently did a big article on the Japanese passhunters, who often carried their bikes over otherwise-inaccessible mountain passes. Tons of people pushing or carrying bikes there, but nobody gets bent out of shape about it. They're just another one of the roots of mountain biking - less well-known than Gary Fisher repacking down Mt. Tam, but definitely legitimate. This is just another back-to-the-roots thing, like skiers who trade lifts and alpine gear to go skin up a mountain and do telemark turns down it, or car guys who install an unsynchro'd gearbox in an older car instead of buying the latest paddleshift dual clutch thing. It's human nature to do stuff like this.

gugie 

I approve of this message. Climbing "The Wall" on the North Trask ride 2017;

Chr0m0ly 

Bah, you can still push your bike you’re not riding rough enough stuff!

52telecaster

pictures never tell the story of how steep or relentless some hills are.

cudak888 

Because, one day, some elitist somewhere started calling everyone who did so "lazy," "weak," or "cheating," and thus started a trend of peer pressure against the idea of walking a bike up a hill.

Of course, reality was ignored, and those who live in areas without steep grades bought into the BS.

The same machismo nonsense is why some roadies deride C&V'ers who show up on lugged steel, or why in American football, some trainers still put their players' lives in jeopardy after an obvious concussion - a fear of being perceived as weak.

As we see, some folks (*cough* shelbyfv *cough*) still buy into this pile of horse manure.

-Kurt

iab

Really?

Read any eroica thread. Count the hundreds of posts endlessly going on about gearing. Do you think a 22 up front and a 36 rear is macho? Harden the **** up is spinning at 5mph?

non-fixie 

I get what you're saying, but that's not what I meant. The "box" I live in is Holland (or Europe, if you like), where pretty much everyone rides what Americans would call a Rivendell-style upright bike. Grant Petersen wouldn't get the time of day here. Which is exactly his point, I believe.

billytwosheds 

Yep.

ascherer 

I think I understood, although not the details or your location. I enjoy EU market offerings of transport/utlity cycles and wish the US could get it's head out of the sport mentality. Where it does exist it's often as much a stylistic statement as one born of practicality.

shelbyfv

Wow, some folks seem really defensive about walking up hills. To me it's just one of those things you can rag your riding buddies about and I've been on both ends of it. We have plenty of hills here and almost any organized ride will have a few walkers. I don't think I've ever heard anyone give them a negative comment. That said, learning to climb hills, even at a walking pace, is just part of riding. More about competence than machismo. If someone is walking hills regularly they might need to think about their gearing. BTW, I love steel and C&V and probably will never own a carbon bike.

Headpost

Just wanted to agree with this. I see so many people riding on the streets here bent over needlessly wide straight bars, struggling to make sense of all the gears they don't need and will never use, often with disk brakes even though they'll probably never go faster than 20mph. It really is idiotic. Of course all those gears and fancy brakes are going to need maintenance and the owners will have no idea how to do it, so I suppose that's more money for bike shops.

cudak888 

There's nothing wrong with gearing that makes it possible to climb up one of these hills, nor does one have to apologize for pushing their rig up either.

The problem is when someone rags on another for choosing either option (or in the case for those who find themselves on terrain their gearing can't match, forced into pushing). Come to Miami where there aren't any hills. Watch every road cyclist talk out of his butt like the Rickenbacker Causeway made him an expert on conquering anything with a grade.

-Kurt

52telecaster

i rode out to my gfs place of work to ride home with her today. it rained hard and a few blocks before home i had to panic stop with wet rims. Tektro 559s will lock up! Amazing how much i didnt need a modern bike.

Waiting for sarah to get off work.

ascherer 

So do y'all think Riv is a Lifestyle Brand, like Rapha? If so, my townie could check many boxes: 531 frame, chrome Nervex Pro lugs, 8-speed internal gears, longish wheelbase, 35c tires, fenders, North Road Bars, wide sprung Brooks saddle, cork grips, bell, lights, can be pedaled in any shoes with or without SPDs, basket, racks...and it commutes to work with my work stuff in the basket, brings home 4 grocery bags in canvas shopping panniers, gets locked up on city streets while I'm doing my errands, occasionally goes to cool paces like this just for the fun of riding this very enjoyable utility bike built for functionality, comfort and aesthetics.

Maybe I'm actually living the Lifestyle(TM), because I posted a picture of myself riding it home with groceries on Instagram 2 weekends ago and promptly received two inquiries from companies offering "collabs" with their product lines - one clothes, one men's watches.

Korina

Nope; just means they're ambitious.

cudak888 

Yes. And so is Velo-Orange. And Rene Herse/Compass. And any single framebuilder out there.

Whether they're marketing like so or not, they're selling very niche, high-priced products to individuals - or groups of people - who are looking to experience cycling in an extremely specific manner.

No matter how many euphemisms or perceptions one puts upon a "lifestyle" brand, that is what a lifestyle brand does.

-Kurt

Kilroy1988 

'Eh, that's not quite how most people would explain what a lifestyle brand is about. Advertising and brand image are important parts of the equation, and typically people who are attracted to brands for their philosophy as well as products are doing so consistently, hence creating a "lifestyle" around those brands.

Any good frame builder or bicycle company does not by any means cater to the same sort of people who are out seeking to support and show off the vision of a "lifestyle brand," such as we see with Rivendell.

cudak888 

If you want to talk about the marketing perspective, sure - and you can find all of those elements with VO and RH too. Some framebuilders do the same. The lifestyle might not be identical among each example, but they're promoting specific philosophies none the less.

Grant's just got the OP and others pissed off because he's gone more mainstream.

-Kurt

jetboy 

I have to say I do get off the bike and push it when needed (by me) and no rider has ever ragged on me for it in my whole life*. Its probably just an internet thing.

*except that one old lady who rode by me asking "are you ok dear?" but she was really just concerned not ragging on me.

HTupolev

You're right. I was jumbling ideas in my head and somehow produced grammatically-correct rubbish.

I'd maintain the other points, though. Super-reclined fits are cumbersome for steep climbing, and a forward posture on a bike with super-long chainstays poses rear traction issues.

The hill-climb motorcycles you're referencing do use the huge rear-center to keep the weight forward. Although obviously the particular geometry isn't a good analogy to any style of bicycle; they're targeted at astronomically steeper hills than it's feasible to ride a bicycle up (which puts the bike at an angle that would otherwise put the rider's weight extremely rearward to the degree that they'd basically flip over backwards), and they're also not constrained to pedalable postures.

Yes, that's what I was saying. I was pointing out that it's normal for MTBs to aggressively prioritize short chainstays even when that demands a wider q-factor than a rider might want for pedaling.

Homebrew01

I never understood that one.
Maybe a double downtube on larger frames.

Kilroy1988 

Considering down tubes typically have a larger diameter than top, head, and seat tubes, you'd either end up with mismatching joints or else mismatching down tube sizes. An additional top tube (which has been rather common practice on tall frames more well over a century) negates much of the frame torque associated with the extra seat and head tube length, making the flex more like that of a much smaller frame. In theory it should work, though I'm not quite heavy or tall enough to test it out to any realistic extent. The fact that it's been done so long makes me think it probably works rather than not.

-Gregory

Classtime 

We are all wannabe Grant Petersons.

uprightbent

Kurt, as the OP I can assure you I'm not pissed off, nor was this a troll. I genuinely can't understand the oddity of what they transformed into. Maybe I miss their original vintage aesthetic, which I see as slowing dying everywhere and less available to purchase without going custom/ hand built. Guess that's part of being a retrogrouch.

I'd argue that he's not gone more mainstream. We've all been in mainstream bike shops lately and you don't see what he's offering, at least not $3k hybrids. An that's okay, as this is a discussion forum, I was just adding my observations of Riv which nearly a hundred posters have loosely acknowledged.

cudak888 

Fair enough. I tend to disagree on a few points, but I do respect your viewpoint. I won't go into detail though...no sense in saying what's already been done to death already (and not just in this thread).

-Kurt