Originally Posted by StupidlyBrave

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Introduction
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....Before you ask...

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Originally Posted by DScott

Short version: be courteous and use common sense.

Did I leave anything out?

Originally Posted by botto

cough.

Originally Posted by StupidlyBrave

Don't give me any credit for this. I read something very similar a long time ago and decided that the same dynamic existed here to some extent. So, with careful editing and substitution, it might be a useful resource to the new user on this forum.

If you want to find the original source of what I refer to, google "Foonly Flurbamatic 2600" - Seriously.


Comments are appreciated. Constructive criticism will be considered, whining and complaining about this post serve no purpose to the community.


Introduction

In Road Cycling (RC), the kind of answers you get to your road cycling questions depends as much on the way you ask the questions as on how interesting your topic is. I hope that this thread can teach you how to ask questions in a way more likely to get you a satisfactory answer and in a way that lacks a nasty discourse that is all too common here.

Please note that these are guidelines only and are an attempt to represent a "best demonstrated practice" of success.

The first thing to understand is that (at least I think) the RC community really likes helping new and relatively inexperienced cyclists. If we didn't, we wouldn't be here. If you give us a good question you are quite likely to give us the dialog necessary to discuss things we might have not thought about too much before. This stimulus is the lifeblood of a good forum. On the other hand, if your question is asked rather frequently or you post news of an event that already has one (or more!) threads created, you won't get the response you hoped for.

The RC community has a reputation for meeting simple questions with what looks like hostility or arrogance. It sometimes looks like we're rude to newbies without cause. I don't believe this is really true. This community is hostile to people who seem to be unwilling to think or to do their own homework before asking questions. This isn't limited to "newbies".

If you find this attitude obnoxious, condescending, or arrogant, please check your assumptions. We're not asking you to genuflect to us - I believe most of us would be quite happy to deal with you as an equal and welcome you into our culture. But you must in the effort required to make that possible. But it's simply not rewarding for us to try to help people who are not willing to help themselves.

On the other hand, we observe that this perception is damaging to the community. We often read or hear about new users afraid to ask a question because of the reputation of the forum. A culture such as this will slowly kill this forum. This situation also creates a rift in the community where some established members blame other established members for this reputation.

Furthermore, we don't want your thread to become useless drivel with no point yet filled with nonsensical bickering and ad hominem attacks. The best way to get a rapid and responsive answer is to ask it like a person with intelligence, confidence, and tact who just happens to need help on one particular problem.


Before you ask

1. Try to find an answer by searching the archives of the forum you plan to post to.
2. Try to ascertain if the same question has been asked before.
3. Try to find an answer by reading the manual or FAQ/Wiki.
4. Try to find an answer by inspection or experimentation.
5. Try to find an answer by asking a skilled friend.

When you ask your question, please note the fact that you have done due diligence these things first and include which sources you have tried. Putting your best effort into one or two techniques listed above is far more important than enumerating every one.

If you do happen to find a solution and there is a good opportunity to share what you've learned, please do. You'll find the experience rewarding and the community can benefit as well.

If the forum search is not functioning properly, a useful alternative is to use google with your search keywords coupled with site:bikeforums.net

Prepare your question. Take your time and think it through. Hasty-sounding questions get hasty answers, or none at all. The more you do to demonstrate that having put thought and effort into solving your problem before seeking help, the more likely you are to actually get meaningful help. The less thought put into the question, the more likely the thread will devolve into the sort of thread that no one is proud of.

Never assume you are entitled to an answer. This is a key point. After all, you are not paying for the service. You can earn an answer by asking a substantial, interesting, and on-topic question - one that implicitly contributes to and draws on the experience of the community rather than merely passively demanding knowledge from others. The right question can educate many.


When you ask

1. Choose your forum carefully - Be sensitive in choosing where you ask your question.
2. Don't post your question to a forum where it's off topic
3. Don't cross-post to too many different forums
4. If a picture is required, such as when describing a crack or physical defect, post it with the defect in focus and don't make us ask for it.
5. Don't make a follow up post shortly after your question is posed asking why no one has responded yet.
6. Basically, be patient and courteous. Use "Please" and "Thanks for your attention" or "Thanks for your consideration". Make it clear you appreciate the effort people make helping you.

Write in clear, grammatically correct and correctly-spelled language

Expressing your question clearly and well is important. If you can't be bothered to do that, we can't be bothered to pay attention. Spend the extra effort to polish your language. Perfection is not desired, simply must be evidence that you're thinking and paying attention.

Spell, punctuate, and capitalize correctly. Don't confuse "its" with "it's", "loose" with "lose", or "break" with "brake". Don't TYPE IN ALL CAPS; this is read as shouting and considered rude. (All-smalls is only slightly less annoying, as it's difficult to read. botto can get away with it, but you can't.)

More generally, if you write like a semi-literate boob you will very likely be ignored by most and attacked by others. So please don't use instant-messaging shortcuts. Spelling "you" as "u" makes you look like a semi-literate boob to save two entire keystrokes. Worse: writing like a l33t script kiddie hax0r is the absolute kiss of death and guarantees you will receive nothing jeers and abuse.

If you are asking questions in a forum that does not use your native language, you will get a limited amount of slack for spelling and grammar errors. You should state this, but no apology is necessary. After all, you probably speak English better than I speak your native tongue. However, you will receive no extra slack for laziness.

Grovelling is not a substitute for doing your homework

Some people who get that they shouldn't behave rudely or arrogantly, demanding an answer, attempt the opposite extreme of grovelling. "I know I'm just a pathetic newbie loser, but...". This may be distracting and unhelpful. It's especially annoying when it's coupled with vagueness about the actual problem.

Instead, present the background facts and your question as clearly as you can. That is a better way to position yourself than by grovelling.


Follow up with a brief note on the solution

Follow up on your thread after the problem has been solved; let us know how it came out and thank those who helped again for their efforts.

Your followup doesn't have to be long and involved; a simple "Howdy - it was the derailer adjustment! Thanks, everyone. - Bill" would be better than nothing. A short and sweet summary is about perfect.

If the solution involved a vendor "going the extra mile" to resolve the problem, that would be useful information as well.

Besides being courteous and informative, this sort of followup will help others searching the archive of the forum to know exactly which solution helped you and thus may also help them. Consider how you might be able to prevent others from having the same problem in the future.


How to answer questions in a helpful way

• Be gentle. Problem-related stress can make people seem rude or stupid even when they're not.
• Reply to a first offender off-line. There is no need of public humiliation for someone who may have made an honest mistake. A real newbie may not know how to search archives or where the FAQ is stored or posted.
• If you don't know for sure, say so! A wrong but authoritative-sounding answer is worse than none at all. Don't point anyone down a wrong path simply because it's fun to sound like an expert. Be humble and honest; set a good example for both the newbie and your peers.
• If you can't help, don't hinder. Don't jokingly suggest things that could injure or destroy because the poor sap might interpret these as instructions.
• Ask probing questions to elicit more details. Try to turn the bad question into a good one; remember we were all newbies once.
• While muttering "use the search feature" is sometimes justified when replying to someone who is just a lazy slob, a well constructed link is better.
• Your credibility should be important to you. Volunteer an answer if you have one, but don't be afraid to acknowledge a better answer that might appear as part of the thread dialog.
• Answering one good question is like feeding a hungry person one meal, but teaching them research skills by example is showing them how to grow food for a lifetime.
• Don't confuse opinion with fact.

Originally Posted by Jive Turkey

So my guess is that this board should be locked since apparently every question has been asked and can be found by doing a search?

Originally Posted by lkh

exactly....

research IS asking a question here....sometimes I use the search function, sometimes I want to 'talk' to someone about an issue...if you think the question doesn't warrant posting, then don't read it.....

People are here for interaction, NOT to do searches and read faqs...that's the whole point of a message board

Originally Posted by Velo Vol

I haven't read any of this thread. Can someone tell me what it is about?

Originally Posted by agarose2000

"Before you ask
Try to find an answer by searching the archives of the forum you plan to post to.
Try to find an answer by searching the Web.
Try to find an answer by reading the manual.
Try to find an answer by reading a FAQ.
Try to find an answer by inspection or experimentation.
Try to find an answer by asking a skilled friend."

No way Im' doing ALL of these before asking a forum question. I agree that laziness and stupidity is bad policy, but this is ridiculous. All this does is encourage alienation of all possibly productive forumites. You might as well say flat out "don't bother to ask your question - it's definitely too stupid and common for all of us road cycling forumites."

If you want a great example of a forum doing it 'right', check out BeginnerTriathlete.com. It's true that yes, the same questions get rehashed over and over again, but there's usually a specific take on it that makes it more relevant to the issue at hand. I'm frankly tired of all this 'go home and do your homework' BS before you're worthy to ask a simple question.

Originally Posted by slowandsteady

Can we also require a 14 page book report? I think it should be double spaced, typed, with references in APA format, font size 10, times new roman, and copied in triplicate. It should be distributed to the forum moderators first as a prescreen. Then after a 90 day waiting period the question can be posted in a special pre-question sub-forum for 14 days. After that, a thorough review of the question by a panel of experts will occur. After that, the question will then appear in the main forum for 7 days for a final review.

Originally Posted by Velo Vol

I haven't read any of this thread. Can someone tell me what it is about?

Originally Posted by jr59

Oh man... Just ask Pcad!