Vintage Cycling dies a slow death...
11-01-22, 01:38 AM
#51
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Dinosaurs are the last to see it coming.
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11-01-22, 05:32 AM
#52
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For anybody lamenting the evolution of Velo Orange or Rene Herse, you would do well to become acquainted with Cycles Grand Bois. They have sourced/made quite a few “missing” or hard to get parts, all made to a very high standard. In many cases, they are the original source that Rene Herse gets credit for. I know some people have had some luck with Velo Orange, but many of their parts are so out of spec ( seat post diameters, poor quality bearings, etc) that I just don’t welcome that spurt of unreliability or aggravation. For the most part, one of the great things about the nice vintage stuff was that it was built to last and built to be maintained. I generally scour eBay, etc. to locate vintage parts that I need. I am very thankful for some things such as the Koolstop Mafac and Campy brake pads, Rustines lever hoods, Berthoud bags and saddles, etc.
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11-01-22, 05:32 AM
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At home, I use a Koolstop tire jack to install tires. This makes things quite easy and no chance of pinching the tube.
On the road, I use a little tire jack called the EZ Clincher. Works quite nicely and fits in my little saddle bag.
I'll admit that it's not always easy getting the tires off either... I like the steel tire levers for this, since they usually have a sharper lip (edge?) that can get under the tight bead.
Steve in Peoria
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11-01-22, 06:45 AM
#54
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As long as consumables are still available, I think we'll be fine.
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11-01-22, 06:50 AM
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Buddy and I were talking about this on our last ride on Katy last weekend. Mainly the 'elitism' that the carbon has brought to the average cyclists and over time how much it cost to just get started riding. Really, a $2500 bike from a bike shop...really isn't getting much, heavy wheels, inferior components, and thrown together and not guaranteed to fit you specifically. Its overall sad that to get a true fit, a custom set up, nice wheels/grouppo, your talking about as much as a car (back in my day). So in some ways, it drives some away from looking further, and for likeminded of myself, I look to resource the good stuff that everyone else sees as useless....classic/vintage throw away.
Every bike shop has a throw away bin, typically, they empty them out at the end of a year or season, and for me, its like xmas going in and looking.
VeloOrange, I have bought stuff, but it is a sorta knock off, its new granted and glad it 'was' there, but I don't think their goods were as pleasing as the originals they replaced if you know what I mean. Some of the components on bikes are simply too hard to find now, so sometimes I have had to grab what is available to make it work.
Nonetheless, I think the classic/vintage thing is like old cars, like some have referred to, we now are in an era that for a large part these goodies are all around us, ie parts, frames etc and we can fill our garages up with all kinds of stuff, but they are disappearing being replaced in some ways with some very good stuff too. I live on Rt 66 in the midwest, and there was a time you could drive it any given day and see old 50s cars in a driveway and all the old timers here bought them up like crazy....and now they are gone. Its hard to believe to me my shimano 600 stuff i put on my first race bike is now vintage, but the 7700 dura ace i later replaced it with was a great grouppo as well (perhaps my 2nd favorite to 7800) and I am just saying the technology over time has been very good to us, with some funny exceptions...and costly...exceptions (my sram force grouppo was the worst ever). We have the luxury of looking back now and buying up the good stuff that we KNOW worked...flawlessly and buy it, rebuild it, heck, much of the time just clean it and put it on.
My favorite lately is I am picking up all the tubular tyres and wheelsets I can, while I can, since the tubeless gig is really taking hold, the marketeers are trying to sell the death of tubular and tubes hoops/tyres...so, I'll buy the good stuff while I can
hope you all do too
Every bike shop has a throw away bin, typically, they empty them out at the end of a year or season, and for me, its like xmas going in and looking.
VeloOrange, I have bought stuff, but it is a sorta knock off, its new granted and glad it 'was' there, but I don't think their goods were as pleasing as the originals they replaced if you know what I mean. Some of the components on bikes are simply too hard to find now, so sometimes I have had to grab what is available to make it work.
Nonetheless, I think the classic/vintage thing is like old cars, like some have referred to, we now are in an era that for a large part these goodies are all around us, ie parts, frames etc and we can fill our garages up with all kinds of stuff, but they are disappearing being replaced in some ways with some very good stuff too. I live on Rt 66 in the midwest, and there was a time you could drive it any given day and see old 50s cars in a driveway and all the old timers here bought them up like crazy....and now they are gone. Its hard to believe to me my shimano 600 stuff i put on my first race bike is now vintage, but the 7700 dura ace i later replaced it with was a great grouppo as well (perhaps my 2nd favorite to 7800) and I am just saying the technology over time has been very good to us, with some funny exceptions...and costly...exceptions (my sram force grouppo was the worst ever). We have the luxury of looking back now and buying up the good stuff that we KNOW worked...flawlessly and buy it, rebuild it, heck, much of the time just clean it and put it on.
My favorite lately is I am picking up all the tubular tyres and wheelsets I can, while I can, since the tubeless gig is really taking hold, the marketeers are trying to sell the death of tubular and tubes hoops/tyres...so, I'll buy the good stuff while I can
hope you all do too
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11-01-22, 07:22 AM
#56
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I'm just grateful that vintage bikes haven't skyrocketed in price the way vintage guitars have. I saw the writing on the wall in the late 90s when I went to a Bee Three-sponsored guitar show in Spartanburg and saw in short order a Tokyo based shop with two chest high stacks of cased guitars that would soon be leaving the country, never to return, two hours after the doors opened; junky cheap Harmonys and Kays selling for what Telecasters sold for ten years earlier; and the capper was a Gibson-built Recording King, obviously rebuilt from wreckage and refinished, selling for ten times its real value at the time. And today I know that had I hung onto the '63 Stratocaster I bought in a Macon pawnshop for $300 in 1983, I could sell it for $25k - but that's kind of sad in a way.
Fortunately, if you can view a guitar as something to be played rather than as a collectable or historic artifact, and if you can focus on making your music carry you forward without the instantly purchased authenticity of a 60-year-old guitar with decades of strum wear, cigarette burns and barbecue sauce stains to convey your seriousness, we live in an era of truly great guitars that to varying degrees reflect the best of the past. But if you're gonna go for that "authentic" look of what we call Americana, I guess you either need a well-worn old guitar or you have to pay extra for a new one with artificial aging (relic'ed or "Murphy Lab" stuff). A shiny new guitar just won't fit in with the Depression-era-hobo/Confederate-P.O.W. look of the genre.
I am down to one keeper-of-the-flame bike, a Mercian - literally a keeper of the flame, using the same pinned and hearth-brazed construction they started out with in '46. And my vintage jones is satisfied with a variety of older bikes that give me the ride experience and feel I crave no matter what parts I hang on them. My sense of what is vintage has broadened to include things like an '88 Sirrus, which is actually pretty close to box stock, because it is lugged and brazed and was built almost as an homage to classic Italian racing bikes. I remind myself that even back in the '70s, when I got new bikes they NEVER left the showroom box stock - there was always the trading around with the shop to get pedals or saddle that I preferred. And oddly enough, my two current favorite vintage bikes are abominations in the eyes of some, both converted to fixed-gear operation with parts that span four decades or more, but still capture the feel and the vibe and the ride quality of their era.
Fortunately, if you can view a guitar as something to be played rather than as a collectable or historic artifact, and if you can focus on making your music carry you forward without the instantly purchased authenticity of a 60-year-old guitar with decades of strum wear, cigarette burns and barbecue sauce stains to convey your seriousness, we live in an era of truly great guitars that to varying degrees reflect the best of the past. But if you're gonna go for that "authentic" look of what we call Americana, I guess you either need a well-worn old guitar or you have to pay extra for a new one with artificial aging (relic'ed or "Murphy Lab" stuff). A shiny new guitar just won't fit in with the Depression-era-hobo/Confederate-P.O.W. look of the genre.
I am down to one keeper-of-the-flame bike, a Mercian - literally a keeper of the flame, using the same pinned and hearth-brazed construction they started out with in '46. And my vintage jones is satisfied with a variety of older bikes that give me the ride experience and feel I crave no matter what parts I hang on them. My sense of what is vintage has broadened to include things like an '88 Sirrus, which is actually pretty close to box stock, because it is lugged and brazed and was built almost as an homage to classic Italian racing bikes. I remind myself that even back in the '70s, when I got new bikes they NEVER left the showroom box stock - there was always the trading around with the shop to get pedals or saddle that I preferred. And oddly enough, my two current favorite vintage bikes are abominations in the eyes of some, both converted to fixed-gear operation with parts that span four decades or more, but still capture the feel and the vibe and the ride quality of their era.
11-01-22, 07:55 AM
#57
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Vintage is definately getting devalued. If I think my '88 Pinarello Montello is hot ***** and worth $1k, that's what an entry level new road bike costs and entry level ebikes aren't much more. I'm seeing ebikes bringing more riders out there, but barring a massive energy crunch, I don't think many would trade their assistance for pure pedaling.
As long as people are buying and storing excess material goods in storage closets that they will then forget to pay, my favorite thrift shop will be around and I'll be entertained for a while. I have more bikes and parts than I'll ever need, but the hunt is fun.
As long as people are buying and storing excess material goods in storage closets that they will then forget to pay, my favorite thrift shop will be around and I'll be entertained for a while. I have more bikes and parts than I'll ever need, but the hunt is fun.
11-01-22, 07:56 AM
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The C&V section of the Forum currently has in excess of 119,000 threads, making it, as I see it, the second-most popular section of this entire forum, only behind "Road Cycling."
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11-01-22, 08:15 AM
#59
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A few things are happening that make the last two years tougher than before. COVID closed many manufacturers (and some are still reduced or never came back), there's a labor shortage in many places, and the supply chain moving the parts has been backlogged.
I guess the "cool factor" of old bikes has been down somewhat. The pandemic pushed people to buy Peloton exercisers, and new trail bikes, but apparently not vintage bikes. It's a mixed thing - fewer people on old bikes, but I guess that keeps the price down too.
And then some stuff was always hard to find. For example, if you needed a set of the "Schwinn Built" calipers from the 1940s for your old Superior or Paramount, you were in for a search anyway. I get quite a few parts I need on eBay. The issue there is that eBay is increasingly dominated by junk, direct-from-China/drop-shipped parts. A couple of my "frequent searches" on eBay are now returning 60% direct-from-China junk parts that have been spammed with search tags.
Looking at the bikes I own, if Brooks ever shutters totally, I'm screwed...
I guess the "cool factor" of old bikes has been down somewhat. The pandemic pushed people to buy Peloton exercisers, and new trail bikes, but apparently not vintage bikes. It's a mixed thing - fewer people on old bikes, but I guess that keeps the price down too.
And then some stuff was always hard to find. For example, if you needed a set of the "Schwinn Built" calipers from the 1940s for your old Superior or Paramount, you were in for a search anyway. I get quite a few parts I need on eBay. The issue there is that eBay is increasingly dominated by junk, direct-from-China/drop-shipped parts. A couple of my "frequent searches" on eBay are now returning 60% direct-from-China junk parts that have been spammed with search tags.
Looking at the bikes I own, if Brooks ever shutters totally, I'm screwed...
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Classic American and British Roadsters, Utility Bikes, and Sporting Bikes (1935-1979):
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11-01-22, 08:32 AM
#60
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In 20 years, my Kona will be someone's vintage. Some new bikes like the Kona Sutra have a retro look. My son's Felt is now 18 years old. His college Gary Fisher near 30. We have three mid 1980's Specialized Rock Hoppers in use. I guess the best way to get a vintage is to buy a new one and use it for 40 years.
11-01-22, 08:34 AM
#61
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What is new becomes old.
What was old becomes new again.
Such is the way of the world and man.
Personally, not very concerned. I have eleven pretty-much-perfect bikes and another new Sachs in the pipeline; at 71+, even riding 6000 miles or so a year, it’s not likely any of them will ever be worn out. Especially when one considers the contents of The Closet in The Lab. Never got into this hobby to make money so have not been disappointed. My hope is that I’ll get to a time where I can’t ride before I get to the point where I can’t recognize my loved ones. That way my stable can be gifted to those who will continue to appreciate them.
Vintage cycling isn’t the only thing facing an eventual death…
What was old becomes new again.
Such is the way of the world and man.
Personally, not very concerned. I have eleven pretty-much-perfect bikes and another new Sachs in the pipeline; at 71+, even riding 6000 miles or so a year, it’s not likely any of them will ever be worn out. Especially when one considers the contents of The Closet in The Lab. Never got into this hobby to make money so have not been disappointed. My hope is that I’ll get to a time where I can’t ride before I get to the point where I can’t recognize my loved ones. That way my stable can be gifted to those who will continue to appreciate them.
Vintage cycling isn’t the only thing facing an eventual death…
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11-01-22, 08:51 AM
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11-01-22, 08:55 AM
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11-01-22, 09:10 AM
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Remember how out of touch your parents seemed when we were teenagers? How about your grandparents?
We are now those old people trying to relate to a young culture. Our time has past. Their time is here. Our thoughts and interests are no longer relevant to the world around us.
We should not be surprised.
We are now those old people trying to relate to a young culture. Our time has past. Their time is here. Our thoughts and interests are no longer relevant to the world around us.
We should not be surprised.
11-01-22, 10:06 AM
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11-01-22, 10:26 AM
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Fortunately, word has not gotten around about vintage trumpets. Very nice '40s and '50s pro trumpets going for $35 on Facebook marketplace. I'm enjoying that while I can (with some facilitation help from some folks here!)
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11-01-22, 10:47 AM
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Word. I got out of that hobby a few years back. Glad I kept a couple.
Fortunately, word has not gotten around about vintage trumpets. Very nice '40s and '50s pro trumpets going for $35 on Facebook marketplace. I'm enjoying that while I can (with some facilitation help from some folks here!)
Fortunately, word has not gotten around about vintage trumpets. Very nice '40s and '50s pro trumpets going for $35 on Facebook marketplace. I'm enjoying that while I can (with some facilitation help from some folks here!)
11-01-22, 11:02 AM
#68
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If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
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11-01-22, 11:04 AM
#69
RidesOldTrek
I know a guy that just ordered (his second) custom CF bike that I'm sure is close to $20k, but he is still using a Brooks (with titanium rails). So there's some hope.
https://www.sellesideale.fr/en
11-01-22, 11:30 AM
#70
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Brooks will likely outlast the resurrected French Ideale, but I hope they can survive. But only if we BUY STUFF FROM THEM! Still riding an Ideale 90 I bought new in 1977, it's wonderful! It's on my Velo Orange Campeur, but sometimes I put it on my 1976 Trek TX500 that I recently resurrected. Mostly I like the Brooks Swallow on that one.
I know a guy that just ordered (his second) custom CF bike that I'm sure is close to $20k, but he is still using a Brooks (with titanium rails). So there's some hope.
https://www.sellesideale.fr/en
I know a guy that just ordered (his second) custom CF bike that I'm sure is close to $20k, but he is still using a Brooks (with titanium rails). So there's some hope.
https://www.sellesideale.fr/en
I probably have enough now, have bought them on sale, used when found for a good deal or in very good shape and scarce like chrome rails which are made less now days.
11-01-22, 01:15 PM
#71
Junior Member
Steve:
Thanks for your reply. Please advise whether you find the Veloflex Open Corsa EVO tires become easier to remove and reinstall if they've been ridden a few times. Veloflex says the tires have an 'inextensible' (i.e., non-stretchable) kevlar bead. If you find the Veloflex tires remain consistently difficult (tight) to remove/install over time, your experience will confirm the claimed non-stretching characteristic of the bead.
FYI #1: I use a Var tire jack to remove and install clincher tires; it's a great tool: https://www.vartools.uk/nylon-tyre-l...ed-c2x36007150
Since my web search inquiries a few years ago didn't show any USA sources, I bought mine from a UK web bike shop. Amazon show's they're available from Tradeinn (pricey at $25 each), which is a UK-based shop.
FYI #2: I pre-stretch my Vittoria Open Corsa 700x25 clinchers before I install them on my MA2 rims. I install the pair of new tires on a set of newer wheels (with newer rims) and I keep them inflated at 110 psi for a 3-5 days. The bead has then stretched enough to make the tires possible to be installed on MA2 rims. I find that the new Vittoria OC clinchers simply won't go on my MA2s unless I pre-stretch them.
FYI #3 : In September of 2020 I emailed Veloflex, Vittoria and Tufo and asked them whether aging ("seasoning") tires was necessary on today's products. Veloflex stated that tires can be used right after being manufactured (1 week afterwards, as used in the Giro) but the tires do benefit from 3-6 months of aging in a darker room and cooler conditions. Veloflex also said that for tires we used BITD, aging the tires gave more time for the vulcanization of the tread rubber to continue, which hardened up the rubber and thus made the tread more cut resistant. Aging the tires also allowed the glues used in assembly to firm up some more as well. Modern materials have thus reduced the 'seasoning' time from 1-2 years down to a few months.
Vittoria and Tufo also both stated that their tires can be used right away. I did see a statement from a European web bike shop that today's handmade FMB and Dugast tires still require some aging.
Andrew_G
Thanks for your reply. Please advise whether you find the Veloflex Open Corsa EVO tires become easier to remove and reinstall if they've been ridden a few times. Veloflex says the tires have an 'inextensible' (i.e., non-stretchable) kevlar bead. If you find the Veloflex tires remain consistently difficult (tight) to remove/install over time, your experience will confirm the claimed non-stretching characteristic of the bead.
FYI #1: I use a Var tire jack to remove and install clincher tires; it's a great tool: https://www.vartools.uk/nylon-tyre-l...ed-c2x36007150
Since my web search inquiries a few years ago didn't show any USA sources, I bought mine from a UK web bike shop. Amazon show's they're available from Tradeinn (pricey at $25 each), which is a UK-based shop.
FYI #2: I pre-stretch my Vittoria Open Corsa 700x25 clinchers before I install them on my MA2 rims. I install the pair of new tires on a set of newer wheels (with newer rims) and I keep them inflated at 110 psi for a 3-5 days. The bead has then stretched enough to make the tires possible to be installed on MA2 rims. I find that the new Vittoria OC clinchers simply won't go on my MA2s unless I pre-stretch them.
FYI #3 : In September of 2020 I emailed Veloflex, Vittoria and Tufo and asked them whether aging ("seasoning") tires was necessary on today's products. Veloflex stated that tires can be used right after being manufactured (1 week afterwards, as used in the Giro) but the tires do benefit from 3-6 months of aging in a darker room and cooler conditions. Veloflex also said that for tires we used BITD, aging the tires gave more time for the vulcanization of the tread rubber to continue, which hardened up the rubber and thus made the tread more cut resistant. Aging the tires also allowed the glues used in assembly to firm up some more as well. Modern materials have thus reduced the 'seasoning' time from 1-2 years down to a few months.
Vittoria and Tufo also both stated that their tires can be used right away. I did see a statement from a European web bike shop that today's handmade FMB and Dugast tires still require some aging.
Andrew_G
11-01-22, 01:51 PM
#73
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Steve:
Thanks for your reply. Please advise whether you find the Veloflex Open Corsa EVO tires become easier to remove and reinstall if they've been ridden a few times. Veloflex says the tires have an 'inextensible' (i.e., non-stretchable) kevlar bead. If you find the Veloflex tires remain consistently difficult (tight) to remove/install over time, your experience will confirm the claimed non-stretching characteristic of the bead.
Thanks for your reply. Please advise whether you find the Veloflex Open Corsa EVO tires become easier to remove and reinstall if they've been ridden a few times. Veloflex says the tires have an 'inextensible' (i.e., non-stretchable) kevlar bead. If you find the Veloflex tires remain consistently difficult (tight) to remove/install over time, your experience will confirm the claimed non-stretching characteristic of the bead.
btw, if you respond to a post by using the Quote function, it lets the author know that you've replied to the post. Otherwise, you're relying on dumb luck that the author will be browsing the thread and find your response.
FYI #1: I use a Var tire jack to remove and install clincher tires; it's a great tool: https://www.vartools.uk/nylon-tyre-l...ed-c2x36007150
Since my web search inquiries a few years ago didn't show any USA sources, I bought mine from a UK web bike shop. Amazon show's they're available from Tradeinn (pricey at $25 each), which is a UK-based shop.
Since my web search inquiries a few years ago didn't show any USA sources, I bought mine from a UK web bike shop. Amazon show's they're available from Tradeinn (pricey at $25 each), which is a UK-based shop.
FYI #3 : In September of 2020 I emailed Veloflex, Vittoria and Tufo and asked them whether aging ("seasoning") tires was necessary on today's products. Veloflex stated that tires can be used right after being manufactured (1 week afterwards, as used in the Giro) but the tires do benefit from 3-6 months of aging in a darker room and cooler conditions. Veloflex also said that for tires we used BITD, aging the tires gave more time for the vulcanization of the tread rubber to continue, which hardened up the rubber and thus made the tread more cut resistant. Aging the tires also allowed the glues used in assembly to firm up some more as well. Modern materials have thus reduced the 'seasoning' time from 1-2 years down to a few months.
Vittoria and Tufo also both stated that their tires can be used right away. I did see a statement from a European web bike shop that today's handmade FMB and Dugast tires still require some aging.
Andrew_G
Vittoria and Tufo also both stated that their tires can be used right away. I did see a statement from a European web bike shop that today's handmade FMB and Dugast tires still require some aging.
Andrew_G
Steve in Peoria
11-01-22, 02:00 PM
#74
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The good old days just aren't what they used to be.
"Nostalgia is like a grammar lesson where one finds the present tense and the past perfect." Herb Caen
Brent
"Nostalgia is like a grammar lesson where one finds the present tense and the past perfect." Herb Caen
Brent
11-01-22, 03:01 PM
#75
Senior Member
I have a set of SunTour Superb brakes that appeared just like that!! I have no memory of buying them in the past.