Catnap 

I recently acquired a Campagnolo 1049, (Nuovo) Record Strada v4 crankset that was one of the original factory-drilled triples. It's identical to the one pictured here: https://www.velobase.com/ViewCompone...=115&AbsPos=28. It didn't come with the ultra-rare 100 BCD inner-most granny ring, or the bolts to attach it. I'd like to use it as a triple.

My questions:

• What kind of bolts do I need to attach the granny ring?
• Are the bolts as rare as the ring?
• Can I modify an Avocet 102 BCD granny ring to fit on these cranks?

Thanks in advance for the help!

merziac

Plenty of the cranks without bolts and ring on the ground, albatross without the bolts.

Did you get the spindle?

You supposedly can modify the Avocet but seems a kludge too far to me.

John E

1) I have two sets of 5 bolts, spacers, and recessed nuts each for building single-BCD triples, such as the 50-47-44 / 144mm and 50-42-39 / 135mm I have used in the past. Would those work?

2) It is trivial to adjust BCD by 2mm -- been there ... done that converting a 130mm 44T ring to 128mm for a Nervar Star spider. Easy peasy, far less "kludgey" than suggested, particularly when used as an inner ring, as in the proposed application.

noobinsf 

This post has the diagram showing what you’d need, and my guess is that it’s rare. Looks like parts number 761 and 818?

https://www.bikeforums.net/15623104-post60.html

jrg1244

I think the bolts are rarer than the small rings. Luckily, the 1049 I put on my '74 Paramount came with everything, despite costing a small fortune. Also hard to find is the appropriate bottom bracket for this crank, but I'd say the bolts are the toughest.

merziac

Yep, that's them, I think the outer bolt is just a short single ring like a track version

repechage

Galli and others made spacer fasteners that appear to work - they are getting more difficult to source.

TugaDude

Would a Triplizer work for your purposes?

https://www.redclovercomponents.com/..._42_Teeth.html

bulgie 

1. The original parts are Campy #818 for the studs, and #761 to attach the ring to the studs. #761 is just the male half of a pista chainring bolt, so you can also use most any single-ring chainging bolt such as BMX or even grind down some road double bolts (too much work, not recommended, use in emergency!) Real 818 bolts are rare but I have grabbed some off ebay a time or two.
   1. Avocet triple inner bolts are a good fit, no mods needed.
   2. Stronglight Mygal bolts work, sort of, but they have a smaller 10mm head, so they can't be used with Campy rings which have a 10mm hole, the bolt head falls right through, you need a ring with 8mm holes (more on that later)
   3. You can modify a standard "stripper bolt" aka shoulder bolt from an industrial fastener supplier such as Mcmaster-Carr. This requires access to a metal lathe.
   4. Buy some 818 bolts from me if you're desperate enough, but my price is $150/set. Sorry but that reflects all the time I spent searching for them, and it's about what good ones go for on ebay
2. Original rings (#804) only came in 36t, no other choices. Rare now, but unless you really want 36t and original, there are other choices. You can buy my Campy 808 for $50 (used) if you're desperate, or read on
   1. Jim Merz used to sell rings he had made in 32t and 31t. I think he stopped selling them in maybe the early '80s, so they're rare now too.
   2. Gebhart in the UK has made some, I forget how many teeth. Contact Hilary Stone who sold them to see if he still has any
   3. A couple other small makers have made them as small as 30t. Most recently Bob Freeman near Seattle made a stack of them, probably sold them all. His were CNC engraved "Crampandgoslow"
3. If you're going to modify a ring, don't start with an Avocet, reults will be sub-par and they're rare too. The rings to modify are most any* 74mm BCD ring at 30t or bigger. The basic plan is drill 5 new holes at 100mm BCD, then cut the old holes off. (Or leave them on, they don't hurt anything, just look funny) (Or make your 100mm ring out of someone's 34t ring, then bolt a 24t ring to the old 74mm holes to make yourself a rad Quad-ring crank!)
   1. I have done this, making rings as small as 29t, but that's not practical (and 39t rings are rare) so plan on 30t or larger.
   2. I made a Flickr album here showing how I did it. Note my method of marking out the hole locations requires having a Campy 804 ring to use as a template, oops, sorry! There are other ways of marking out 5 holes on a 100 mm BCD, but this answer is getting too long already...
   3. I can make you one but I am slow. I charge $100. Results not guaranteed to be perfect, I do this by hand, but guaranteed to bolt onto the crank and run straight, at least to eyeball accuracy (good enough for bike parts).

* I said "most any" 74mm ring because some 30t rings have cutouts (windows) right where your 100mm bolts need to go. Campy's MTB inner rings have those windows, so Campy is almost the only ring we can't use.

Oh here's my Flickr showing the 29t ring and the hoops I had to jump through to get that to work. Not recommended!

Hope this helps, good luck and let us know which way you end up going

​​​​​​​Mark B

Catnap 

I think I have the spindle... I have to measure the one that was on the bike with the crank. That said, I know I have a 116mm Shimano on hand, that should work with the addition of a 1mm spacer.

There's one set of bolts on eBay for about $100, which is motivation enough to try to figure out something with McMaster-Carr. I'm thinking the approach would be a normal metric-threaded bolt with spacers on it, as opposed to the much more complex design of the Campagnolo originals. Something similar to how Specialites TA triple bolts are made.

Or, perhaps set screws (like this: https://www.mcmaster.com/bolts/set-s...ip-set-screws/) with spacers around it, with a thin nut (https://www.mcmaster.com/browse-fast...in-hex-nuts-8/) to hold inner chainring on without striking the chain stay.

What I'd need to know are two things:

• The length of the Campagnolo stand-off bolts
• The width and threading of the Campagnolo stand-off bolts

Catnap 

Edit - I've received offers to sell me the 100 BCD ring and I'll follow up with those folks. I'd rather have the original 36T than an aftermarket triple-izer.

Doug Fattic 

Are you referring to Campy part #818? I have some NOS triples I can measure if that is the part - or if it is another part (and you provide the part #) I can measure it for you.

jonwvara 

This is heartbreaking.

repechage

Triplizer has the advantage that the chain won't get caught between the granny and the spider arms.

I think shifts better also.

bulgie 

818 spacers are 11.0 mm long and 12.0 mm diameter. Thread is M6 x 1.0, a very common size.

Alternatively check out these shoulder bolts from Mcmaster: https://www.mcmaster.com/90318A960/

Only $5 each!

The thread is too long, but they're stainless so you can cut them to length and the visible end won't rust. You can also get them in alloy steel, about twice as strong, but those will rust and I think SS is probably strong enough.

The shoulder is only 8 mm, versus the 10 mm hole in a 804 ring, but these will still locate the ring by the counterbore, which is 12 mm. This bolt has a 12 mm head that will nestle into the ring just right. Being "ultra low profile" means these won't rub on the chainstay on a bike with minimal clearance there.

You use those with spacers like these: https://www.mcmaster.com/92871A842/
That's in stainless,and aluminum will be lighter, search for them if you need to save a gram... $3.72 each

Mark B

bulgie 

Chain getting caught like that is a real problem on 24t rings, less of a problem (but still possible) on 26t, and pretty much impossible on 28t and up. The Super Record ring (and clones thereof) that does away with the inner web between the chainring bolts is more prone to this; old Record rings (a.k.a. NR) have "guard rails" that make it less likely

Since the 100 mm BCD can't go smaller than 30t, it is always safe from this. Just watch out on those aftermarket Campy cranks that have been drilled at 74 mm — stay with 26t and up with Record middle, or 28t and up if your middle ring is a Super Record type.

As far as shifting speed/smoothness/reliability, I haven't noticed any difference between triplizer and drilled-spider types, at the same sizes. Unless the triplizer has ramps/pins, I can't see how there would be a difference. I have extensive experience with both. I like triplizers, but just based on aesthetics, the drilled spider type looks more *****in'.

Edit: the censor won't let me say the word that rhymes with witchin'. Is it a bad word? I don't think so but maybe I'm a bad person.

Mark B

bulgie 

Here's a pic of the McMaster ultra-low profile SS bolts installed, on a 30t 100 mm granny made by Bob Freeman:

Catnap 

A huge thank you to bulgie !!! I've ordered the bolts and spacers you noted above. You're a lifesaver, man. Your idea is better than either of mine. Once they and the original chainring arrive, I'll assemble them and report back. I've got a Rally derailleur to go with it, and looking forward to piecing together a cool Campy Nuovo Record touring setup.