Fred Smedley

Robin Williams knew what to ride....Robin Williams and Dario Pegoretti: The Comedian and the Bike Builder - WSJ

DMC707

Originally Italvega i thought --- hmmmm

Ride-Fly

i concur Grady! In fact, when this first came out, that was my major gripe- the generic and disconnected sound of the name. He should have called it Doriano or D.Derosa or Doriano DR or something like that! Bixxis is way too blah.

Fivethumbs

No Carnielli love?

Regulatori

No, I'm not trolling. I know it's a very subject question. That's why I tried to add a few things like "when the manufacturer was in their prime" to help simplify it a little...it's a terribly broad question though but still fun conversation matter.

I'm a sports car guy so it's hilarious when my British car friends get in the MG/Triumph/Lotus/Healey type arguments or my Italian car friends do the whole Lancia/Alfa/Fiat deal (more affordable Italian/British brands). Again, like bicycles, we're talking about specific period....the period they made enthusiasts cars for an average non-affluent buyer. With Italian and British cars, most would fall in the mid to late 60's.

P.S. If anyone wants to give away a Alfa GT 1300 JR stepnose, I'm taking donations.

With bikes, there are of course better time periods for certain companies, some companies only made higher end/boutique bikes, etc.. It just kind of a general question.

Regulatori

I can just imagine the conversation if you happened to be traveling in some small Italian town, stop by to have a beer, and strike up a conversation with a local only find out they used to work in one of the major factories during their heyday. The stories would be incredible.

My dad was a Porsche mechanic all during the 70's....some of his stories are insane. The stuff they could get away with back then would NEVER fly today. Like driving around in a factory 934 race car/open exhaust on the streets

SJX426 

That is what it might take! $3K for frame and fork with $500 down and 60 days. You may have presented my modern steel grail bike!

Bikerider007

You guys have some builders up their that have built a name, Rodriguez was able to, your name surely fits and that looks great!

BTW, my wife still had those dang forks in her trunk! Argh. I will get them out tomorrow.

look171

Casati, of course. Now that we have established that, here's the rest that follows

DeRosa, Gios and Cinelli. Oh lets not forget the best touring bike made by a racing bike company. Medici. Well, not Italian but made in Los Angeles.

I raced three out of those mentioned. Only managed to break only one of them.

crank_addict

Trying to slip a fast one in on us, eh? lol

But then we have a Masi made French labeled.
Masi built Peugeot for the 28 yr. old Belgian rider Ferdinand Bracke hr. record in Rome Oct. 30, 1967 (48.093 kph (29.8 mph).


A month earlier in Milan, 33 yr. old Jacques Antquetil broke 47.493 kph (29.4 mph) but later disqualified for declining dope test.

https://charliecycles54.com/2014/02/...brand-peugeot/

look171

Masi is still Masi as far as I am concern. His son builds them now, but still in the very traditional way (not sure if he still doing it today?). So long as it come out of the shop under the Vigroelli Velodrome. About 15 years ago, I visited him and there he was willing to measure me up for a new frame.

Oh yeah, forgot to add Masi in there. These are the true Italian builders who build frames for world champs, badge or not. Colnago, well, that's another story for another time. Some how everyone falls in love with a Colnago even t hough I feel his bikes aren't always so good. I have one but haven't ridden it in a long time.

KonAaron Snake 

The difference being that there are a lot more bicycle manufacturers, and...as you said...the various brands changed and morphed a lot over time. I think there are also likely fewer differences between the brands...since there are fewer parts and most used many of the same components.

There are so many nice bikes out there. I like my Marnati a lot...the EL OS de rosa is a damn nice rider...the Cinellis have "it", whatever it is. I really like my Picchio. Some day I'd really like a Passoni.

repechage

Should have reconsidered the Picchio I looked at recently at the Eroica California swap. The dark orange paint was quite chipped, the $400 price tag was just a bit too steep for a frame and fork in that shape.
One cannot have them all.

crank_addict

By the master with a torch flame and no frame jig. There's a quote somewhere supposedly by Sante Pogliaghi that in the late 1970's he recommended De Rosa and Cinelli. Who else really is even qualified to define any of this? Maybe the pro's who raced them back when?

Alos, sort of funny but this topic started with a bit about Ferrari and Alfa. There were some era's of the most beautiful designs, pleasant on the eyes, but oh' were they handbuilt... as in near kit car home garage quality level.

Choke 

I really really like what he's doing....and IMO at the price he's asking they're a steal. I spent probably 20 minutes talking to him (and Martina) at NAHBS and they couldn't have been more pleasant. I asked if it was possible to get a frame with DT shifter bosses and he replied that it was; one hard rule I have for a frame is that it must accept DT shifters.

gomango

Very cool.

I would love to chat with him.

I think the red and white color scheme is really sweet as well.

Just a great looking bike and the price point is super tempting.

I'm currently collecting a few items to get my Tommasini Sintesi on the road.

Maybe that would see me through until I have one of these built.

Decisions, decisions.

crank_addict

I think its the year 2016............

https://www.racycles.com/product/detail/1611



from the link:




The Colnago Master X-Light is, in many ways, the definitive Colnago frameset. It's a lugged, plated, painted steel bike with the distinctive fork, tube shapes, and paint that placed it apart from the pack. It first appeared thirty years ago, and to celebrate it's introduction, Colnago is releasing it once again. Building it like it was always built, and in Italy, too.





The frameset is exactly where it was when it last appeared in the Colnago lineup. The tubing, DT15V steel, is identical to the tubing they used before. When the bike was built last, it was with a tubeset that was a joint effort between Columbus and Colnago. Columbus isn't making the tubes anymore, so Colnago tracked down the guy who drew the tubes, brought him the dies, and he produced them for Colnago. So you get the same mix of star-shaped and round tubes. They are joined by the same lugs. The straight-blade Precisa fork, revolutionary when it first appeared, is back. And so is the chrome-plating, and the luxurious, detailed paint. Even with all this going on, the frame is a relatively svelte 1400g.





The big deal with all the pieces is how they work together with the geometry for an incredible ride. The straight blade fork is precise and compliant thanks to the rake and internal tapering. The star-shaped tubes resist the torsional forces of pedaling and the round stays keep the bike comfortable. The ride is fast, stable, and comfortable. Great for riding long, great for riding hard, great for riding long and hard. If you ever wonder what the DNA of a Colnago ride is, ride this bike, and you'll know it.





And the paint scheme. Oooh la la. The paint applied over the chrome was the acme of Colnago's fascination with fun and funky detailing. Fades, bright contrasts, intricate graphics, its all here.





The frameset is detailed as it always was. 1" steerer tube, though this time with a threadless steerer. Italian-threaded bottom bracket. 27.2mm seat tube diameter. Room for 25mm tires. Two bottle braze-ons. Plated braze-on front derailleur tab. Integrated seat clamp with pin included. Vertical dropouts.





The Colnago Master X-Light frameset is the extra light bike of yore, 30 years young. Its ride is now as it was then, a joy like no other.

available in a choice of color's, schemes and of course red

gioscinelli 

Is that "Don Vito Corleone" greeting the Pope and making an offering?

gomango

I've been down the Master X Light rode a couple of times.

Really a nice, super stable steel frameset.

[IMG]IMG_0190 by gomango1849, on Flickr[/IMG]

ItalianPower

Has anyone mentioned Marastoni? One of my favorites! Galmozzi, Marnati, and Picchio were incredibly gifted frame builders. Love all of my bikes and hard to pick a favorite.

ItalianPower

Obviously Pegoretti. Raul Gozzi of Rauler was incredible as well. So many to choose from!

dadoflam

[QUOTE=crank_addict;18733514]Trying to slip a fast one in on us, eh? lol

But then we have a Masi made French labeled.
Masi built Peugeot for the 28 yr. old Belgian rider Ferdinand Bracke hr. record in Rome Oct. 30, 1967 (48.093 kph (29.8 mph).

[url]https://charliecycles54.com/2014/02/10/1967

The confusion doesn't end there - by 1967 there's a good chance this was a frame commissioned by Faliero from Giuseppe Pela then sold as a Masi and then badged as a Peugeot.

tarwheel 

I suspect this is true. I have not ridden enough different high-end (or low, mid-end) bikes to make an honest comparison, and I doubt if many cyclists have. Some of the bike shop owners, employees and collectors might offer some insight but we all have our biases and preferences.

However, I have owned and ridden many miles on several Italian bikes including a mid-1980s Bianchi Nuovo Record, a late 90s Bianchi Alloro (aluminum), an early 2000s Gios Compact Pro, and a late 90s De Bernardi SL (which I still own). I also owned an Eddy Merckx Corsa 01 and AX, which had geometries clearly inspired by Italian frame makers (and Italian bottom brackets). The Gios and De Bernardi rode the nicest to me, and their geometries were nearly identical with steep angles. The Merckx Corsa handled the nicest on curvy roads but was a bit stiffer on bumpy roads. The aluminum Bianchi sucked, even with a carbon fork, and vibrated me to death.

Regarding quality of construction, the Gios and De Bernardi are as nicely built and finished as any steel frames that I have seen in person. The paint and chrome on both frames were like new after thousands of miles of riding, with no paint chips or rust. I sold the Gios because it was a bit too small for me and hated to see it go. The De Bernardi has almost identical geometry but correctly sized. I commuted on this bike for several years and have ridden more than 10,000 miles on it, and it still looks like new. I bought the frame new-old-stock for a bargain price because De Bernardi is not one of the marque Italian brands such as De Rosa, Colnago, Pinarello. If I removed the decals and replaced them with De Rosas, it would probably sell for a nice price and I doubt if many people could tell the difference. Perhaps the quality of a De Rosa would be apparent if you put the De Bernardi side-by-side with one, but I tend to doubt it. Not that it matters to me, I don't get carried away by brand names.

Anyway, if looking for an Italian bike and price is an issue, I would focus on the quality of construction, finish, color, decals, etc., rather than the brand names. You will pay more for one of the marque brands, and perhaps have a better resale value if you get rid of it, but I doubt if it will ride any better than a quality frame from a lesser-know brand.

Barrettscv 

Now that I own three Italian bikes...

My criteria is simple: Who has produced more top quality bikes than anyone else?

Colnago, Pinarello, Bianchi

jimmuller 

So you rank quantity over quality?

I have three "Italian" bikes but only one was made in Italy.

Bianchi
Masi
Grandis

The one made in the US is the winner.