oik01

So I tend to get in my head a lot about descending. I'm always thinking that a small mistake and I will not make the curve and end up in the valley .... Literally the only thought.

​​​​​​I think I've been a bit better recently especially under reasonable gradients. But I do stay on the brakes more than most. My biggest issue is when it's really steep going down. I feel like breaking there will be hard because a lot of the force is already just to stop the acceleration and then I'm not sure how I'll slow I in time before the curve. I've had several rides with such very steep bits where I literally stopped my bike, looked down and then came down from a stopped speed.

My second question is that my bike fitter has my saddle all the way forward. I also have a good drop between the saddle and the handlebar. As a result it can be a lot of forward weight during the descent. Do you think that could be contributing? Should I bring back the saddle just to maintain weight balance or do I just go with what the fitter asked for?

Lastly, anyone crashed on descents before? How often do people actually end up over the curb?

cxwrench

1) Any thoughts...nope. Just maintain a slow enough speed you don't freak out.
2) Saddle position...how can anyone provide any advice when you haven't provided any visual information on what your position looks like? Even if someone was the most experienced fitter on the planet they couldn't give you any advice. What's a 'good' drop between the saddle and bars? Is there such a thing as a 'bad' drop? C'mon, these questions are ridiculous.
3) Of course people have crashed on descents, it happens all the time.
ETA: You've posted this thread twice, report the other one so a mod will delete it.

Koyote

Are you racing? If the answer is "no," and I suspect it is, then just descend at a speed that is comfortable for you and don't worry about going faster.

If you are racing, then you should be regularly riding with other skilled riders; watch how they descend and learn from them.

ChamoisDavisJr

Just slow down. No need to cause yourself distress about it. I wouldn't change my fit for a small portion of the ride. Assuming you're comfortable the other 90% of the time you are on the bike the saddle fore/aft should be left alone.

It's OK to go slow down the hill. The only thing that matters is how fast you can go UP the hill and that only matters if you're chasing segments, your own PR's, or your friends.

oik01

Well I just feel like I am always dropping to the back of group rides to make sure no one hits me from behind and then I lose the bunch on some descents if I just stop. So yes ... Safety is more important... But it would be nice if I can actually do the group ride

genejockey 

I tend to be a chicken descender myself, so I can sympathize. I find myself thinking about what happens if I screw up. I actually yell at myself to let off the brakes as I enter corners, when I know from experience that I'm going way slower than I need to but I can't quite get past the fear. What has worked in the past is to keep doing the descents, so I get more comfortable with them. Also, remembering the basics - brake before the turn; eyes up, looking for the exit, not the pavement under the wheel; use the whole lane but ONLY that lane; front brake > rear brake; scooch back on the saddle if you have to brake hard.

WRT saddle position, I can't comment on yours, but I did find, years ago, that when I had a fitting and the fitter moved my saddle up and forward and my bars down that it improved the high speed handling of the bike a lot. Often, if I'm nervous, I'll find myself pulling back from the bars and I can feel the effect of unweighting the front wheel. Then I can feel it stabilize when I put my more of my weight onto the bars again.

oik01

So the weight should be forward except during hard braking? Is that to keep traction on the front wheels?

ChamoisDavisJr

There's a thing called "sag climbing" which is to get to the front of the group at the start of the climb and then slowly drift back as you ascend. You could try that on the descents.

Are you able to stay near the front of the ride during the climbs? Then just power up and over the hill and roll into your comfortable descending speed and let the group end up where they may.

As you descend more you'll get more comfortable. Especially if you're doing the same decents on a weekly basis. The comfort with the speeds will evolve.

True fear is a gift. Unwarranted fear is a curse. You will learn to tell the difference in time hopefully.

shelbyfv

It can only take once. One local had his neck severed by a guard rail.

Iride01 

Hopefully these are solo descents or a very small loose group widely spaced. You just need to do more of them till you get comfortable but hopefully not overconfident.

What about your braking technique? You aren't riding the brakes all the way down are you. You should be using them to slow you down to a slow speed then releasing them and letting them cool while the bike accelerates. Just before you start to get antsy about the speed, brake again to slow back down to a speed you can again release the brakes for a while.

As for changing your saddle position, why? That's where the fitter said it should be for you and apparently it's been comfortable for you. If it's more forward than normal, it's probably because you bought the wrong size bike. Get another bike if you want your CG further aft on the bike. But I see no reason to if you learn proper braking of front and rear and realize the front is what stops you.

Wildwood 

Not unique.
Alone = any slow speed that doesn't induce anxiety.
In a group = back of the group, watch and learn from others.

Good reasons to be afraid of speed:
if there are any tight turns,
grit/debris/moss near edge of road on turns,
other people you might hit,
other people who might hit you,
motorists don't expect bicycles to go that fast and might turn in front of the cyclist,
or not see you in a tuck,
hidden driveways,
far more attention is needed to watch for road irregularities or approaching dogs (or both simultaneously),
everything happens fast, margins of error shrink,
minor corrections at slow speed are exaggerated at higher speed (ie, handling differences),
longer stopping distances (do you regularly practice good handling skills and body position while in a power stop?)


Falls at speed usually hurt exponentially more as your speed increases linearly (Wildwood's Law).

genejockey 

Not so much forward as balanced. You should still be able to lift your hands off the bars without falling onto the stem.

oik01

Confidence inspiring! 😳🙄

oik01

Even on the flats I can achieve that only with heavy pedaling

CAT7RDR

I can share from experience, DO NOT trust air pressure calculators you find on the interwebs.
Better to be too firm and upright vs a pinch flat and being slammed into the tarmac on a twisty descent.

oik01

Tubeless 28 c setup ... So I run them pretty low

Ogsarg

There are techniques for high speed cornering that you can learn and practice but keep in mind that if you are on a public road, you have to be prepared for the unexpected. Loose dirt/gravel in a corner, oncoming traffic in your lane, pedestrians, wildlife, etc. When I was motorcycling, a skilled rider told me that he never took corners at more than about 50% of the speed he would on a track because just about anything could be around that bend. As an older rider, the thought of what can happen outweighs the thrill of the high speed descent.

70sSanO

For me, handlebar height, riding in the drops, is based on comfort vs aerodynamics. If you are able to comfortably ride in the drops for some distance, then your setup is okay.

It is similar with the saddle setup. If riding in the drops for some distance is comfortable and you don't have any knee pain, then it is probably fine.

As far as too far forward, go find a late 80's mtb with a 150mm stem and descend down a trail. You'll be fine after that.

John

Pratt

If I were in your position, I might think of picking a local hill and riding it multiple times. That way I would be sure that it did not have unexpected road hazards, and after the first time, I would know I can take this curve at x MPH (1.6x KPH outside the US) and might feel confident enough to go a little faster and still be safe. As a benefit, all that climbing will make you so much faster on the uphills, your speed on the downhills won't matter.
Personally, I usually ride the brakes a little on down hills to give myself more time to recover from the climb, before the next one, here in Vermont there is always a next one.
Good luck!

rsbob 

Google Descending on a bicycle. There is tons of good info and instructional videos on YouTube. To get good at it requires patience and pushing your comfort just a bit - nothing crazy. There are definite techniques explained on descending. Spend some time and read about them.

Paul Barnard

Understand that you'll go where you look. Look through the curves, not at where you don't want to go.

genejockey 

But you CAN do it, right? Ideally, as I understand it, if you had your bike mounted on a trainer, you could lift off both hands, even hold them behind your back, and be able to maintain your torso at the same angle. Yeah, you pedal harder and the muscles in your back and abdomen are working harder, but you CAN hold yourself there.

rm -rf

I like to be able to essentially stop in the distance I can see ahead. That means slowing down on blind curves. If the road is straight, and there's little chance of dogs, deer, or cars coming out of driveways, I'll zoom down.

A veteran cyclist told me years ago to pay attention to the "curve speed limit 35" type of signs. It's really easy to go faster than that, and if the road is clear, no problem. But that speed limit allows time to stop if there's something laying in the road, a patch of gravel, car in the lane, etc.

There's a lot of confidence with experience. So I know I can stop or turn as needed at the speed I'm going, and I can just ride down.
~~~

High speed descending is surprisingly different!

This Numberphile video was astonishing to me. I won't spoil the video, it's really interesting and not intuitive.

But the point is that it takes way more energy to stop from high speeds than moderate speeds. Brakes and tires can only slow the rider at a certain rate.

So 40 mph downhills need way more stopping time than the 25-30 mph downhills that seem easy, comfortable and fun to me. I've been using the brakes a bit on faster downhills lately. A short brake, then release, never feather the brakes continuously. It's still fast, but less dangerous. I no longer think "hmm, that was a bit risky" when I reach the bottom.

rm -rf

Tire grip
Tires have more grip than you think. You'll make it around the bend! But. sand/gravel, other stuff can cause a crash, and it's always unexpected if you crashed. If you see it in time, no big deal.

Slowing or stopping in the shortest distance
This is worth training, in a quiet parking lot.

The quickest, shortest stop is with the front brake only. (On paved surfaces, nothing slippery on the road.) It seems sketchy or dangerous, but it isn't. Years ago, I was going down a steep grade when the cyclist in front made a sudden swerve. I hit both brakes, but that caused the rear to lock up the wheel, and it started fishtailing. Yikes! Letting off both brakes briefly worked. No crash!

Shedon Brown had the classic description: Braking and Turning. "If you take the time to learn to use the front brake correctly, you will be a safer cyclist."
I'm more confident when descending when I know I can stop effectively in the distance I can see ahead.

Retro Grouch 

If you think that your weight seems too far forward on a steep descent, try sliding your butt a bit off the back of your saddle.