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What's up with sticking V-brakes?

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What's up with sticking V-brakes?

Old 09-05-21, 03:52 PM
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sunburst
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What's up with sticking V-brakes?

My usual disclaimer: I have mostly worked on vintage, so centerpulls, and sidepulls, with centerpulls being by far the majority. And I don't have problems with centerpulls. Only once in many dozens of bikes, with a bent arm, fixed (and thankfully not broken) with a cresent wrench.

However, the majority of V-brakes I've come across stick, or in other words, one side or the other doesn't retrack. This is so common, I expect it. Even after changing cable and housing (my preferred first step), I sometimes have problems with brakes not retracting, hence rubbing the rims. Usually it's one side only, and iirc, usually the cable guide side, although yesterday, the cable clamp side. Sometimes the adjustment screws works, sometimes not. I finally fixed yesterday's by changing the boss hole that the spring inserts into. But once I did that the other side was rubbing until I changed that insertion point also. I have no illusions that this is correct wrenching, and I consider it brute-force, but it has worked three times now. After I did both sides, and trued the wheel (it was already pretty close), I managed to get everything well dialed in before a buyer showed up for the bike. I (think I) understand that the adjustment screw has a similar effect to moving the insertion point. Indeed, yesterday I realized moving the insertion point takes the adjustment screw completely out of the picture.

I think I understand v-brakes in general, but recently sat through a youtube video anyway. But that did not help me diagnose this reoccuring problem.

While I'm at it, I was going to buy more cable guides because a lot of these bikes I see have rusted ones (nothing like putting a new cable housing into a corroded old noodle). I saw some ads showing the guides sold in pairs, 90 and 110 degrees. Never having noticed, I assumed they were all 90's. When would I use 110's?
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Old 09-05-21, 04:02 PM
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First thing I would check is the pads condition. If a pad has a lot of wear and has developed a lip along it's lower edge this can act as a hook and snag on the rim's edge. More an issue when on the repair stand that in riding as the rim's motion will reduce the snagging lip's ability to hang up on the rim. Next up is that V brakes have a third spring effecting the arm movement and pad centering, the cable casing. Very few wrenches I know of pay attention to this aspect. Then there's the trend to weaker return springs on V brakes, compared to other and older brakes. Andy
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Old 09-05-21, 04:10 PM
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In addition to the above, some bikes get abused enough to have bent caliper springs. Unhook both springs and see if they're symmetrical. Also check for extra friction in each caliper as it rotates on its post without the spring. The springs are easily bent roughly by hand, then final adjustments can be made with the screws at the base of the calipers.

110 noodles can be helpful at the rear brake where a frame stop is welded to the top of the seat post, and there's a short piece of housing to the noodle, especially on smaller frames.

Last edited by andrewclaus; 09-05-21 at 04:17 PM.
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Old 09-05-21, 05:22 PM
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Also, many of these anchor the return spring in a plastic collar that often breaks, so you have a pad that won't return on once side.
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Old 09-05-21, 06:51 PM
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Thx everyone.

In my recent case, the pads were good. I check for that in general, but have not seen that hook effect from worn pads before. Another thing to add to my list. I've collected many sticky brake tips over the years. Here's a couple of fun ones: the pivot bolts of center-pulls, the pivot pins of brake levers.

I usually replace the cable and housing when I have this problem, and anytime they look old and worn in general, even without symptoms. And I lube the cable with Tri-Flow. But, I've often asked myself if the lube is necessary in lined housings. Opinions?

I will check all these suggestions the next sticking V-brake I encounter.
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Old 09-06-21, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by sunburst
But, I've often asked myself if the lube is necessary in lined housings. Opinions?
I don't lube lined housings, which I use with die-drawn stainless inners.
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Old 09-07-21, 12:50 AM
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I usually end up taking mechanical brakes apart if they have seen some use or been left standing, especially at the cheaper end of the market as they usually spend a lot of time outside and see little good maintenance. My most common issues are frayed cable ends and poorly routed/length housing. Any brake that has been used for some with such cable/housing issues will probably have other issues as a result that make it difficult to correct through adjustment.

110 noodles might be handy if you have a folder with a downpull side caliper at the rear, because the cable has a large angle to turn through and must squeeze between the chain and frame.
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Old 09-07-21, 02:38 AM
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I have had this problem and the usual solution is to put Shimano brakes on the bike. I messed around with the Tektro front brake on my daughter's bike for the longest time, and there was no way to get it to work right.
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Old 09-07-21, 04:18 AM
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Bend the spring a bit
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Old 09-07-21, 08:56 AM
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A few things can lead to stubborn unbalanced brakes:

1. Make sure the wheel is in the dropouts straight. This catches even experienced techs off guard. A crooked wheel will make all your brake adjustments unbelievably difficult, and it will all be for naught the next time you remove or straighten the wheel. I have a front wheel with a slightly bent axle and this results in me having to recentre the brakes every time I remove the wheel
2. Rust or other impediment to the brake moving on the pivot. Often one side of the bike is stored in such a way that one side is more effected by the elements so one brake post is rusty and this reduces the ability of that side's spring to pull it out. Removal of the brake arm and sanding off the rust is the solution to this
3. I don't know why, but cheap brakes (like the ones on dept store bikes) are muc hmore difficult to get and keep the brakes adjusted. It seems like such a simple mechanism, but I guess you get what you pay for. My experience with Shimano or Tektro or Avid direct pull brakes has been almost universally positive, while the least expensive brakes are almost universally a pain.
4. Make sure the levers are compatible with V brakes. Using 'short pull' brakes as were specced on old (pre-mid-nineties) bikes, or on most road bikes, and sometimes on inexpensive dept store bikes that were supposed to have long pull levers, result in extremely small clearance between rim and brake pad, and very difficult or impossible adjustment to keep the brakes from rubbing.
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Old 09-07-21, 09:25 AM
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110 deg noodle used with rear brake. Better angle, short housing from noodle to along side the top tube.

Last edited by grizzly59; 09-07-21 at 06:37 PM.
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Old 09-07-21, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen
I have had this problem and the usual solution is to put Shimano brakes on the bike. I messed around with the Tektro front brake on my daughter's bike for the longest time, and there was no way to get it to work right.
This

I am not generally a proponent of replacing parts as a fix when the root of the problem is not well known, but Shimano parts work better and are generally easier to adjust than any of their competitors.
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Old 09-07-21, 04:48 PM
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If the adjustment screw isn't enough, back the screw out a bit and bend the spring outward a little. This always works.
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Old 09-08-21, 01:07 PM
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I'm going to piggyback the comments of Shimano and Avid brakes being great. Every time I've had to set initial adjustment, it's been easy and then rarely need to make any further adjustments afterwards, maybe occasionally tweak the screws just a touch. Quality parts typically give quality results
As mentioned, the cheap stuff really sucks. Just yesterday I was adjusting the dirty old v-brakes on a friend's extremely low end bike. Every time I removed the front wheel and reinstalled it, the adjustment on the brakes would change. One side would stick, then the other. Came down to low quality and dirty parts.
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Old 09-08-21, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by ClydeClydeson
This

I am not generally a proponent of replacing parts as a fix when the root of the problem is not well known, but Shimano parts work better and are generally easier to adjust than any of their competitors.
Not all of their competitors Paul Motolites are dead easy to adjust in both tension and pad location. Far easier than Shimano.

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Old 09-08-21, 05:27 PM
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Old 09-08-21, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute
Not all of their competitors Paul Motolites are dead easy to adjust in both tension and pad location. Far easier than Shimano.
Oh I would love to have Paul brakes on all my mountain bikes. However, those are quite pricey and when used Shimano/Avid brakes practically grow on trees, it leads me to pick the low hanging fruit.
I do have an NOS Surly Long Haul Trucker frame though which will get all the expensive goodies, one of which being the Paul Motolites or Touring Cantilever.
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Old 09-08-21, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen
I have had this problem and the usual solution is to put Shimano brakes on the bike. I messed around with the Tektro front brake on my daughter's bike for the longest time, and there was no way to get it to work right.

Hahaha, the first time this happened was on a Walmart bike, and every time I’ve dealt with it since the brakes have been at best, Tektro, or worse, no visible brand. I’m not sure I’ve ever even seen Shimano V-brakes, but I will look for some. I do have one decent mtn bike circa early 2000’s. Shimano everything but the brakes are Dia-compe. This does explain though why someone gave me a box of no-name V-brakes. He had probably been replacing them with something decent.
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Old 09-08-21, 11:11 PM
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One other thing to check is if the brake track on the rim has a wear indicator utilizing a groove in the track, the pad can wear with a raised groove that will mate with the recessed groove in the rim track, and will not release cleanly when the pad is pushed up against the rim.
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Old 09-08-21, 11:16 PM
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They’re never really balanced because one side is attached to the frame by housing and the other isn’t. Ideally the housing isn’t a factor but really it’s firmed up in compression. If you really crank up the springs, it can help, but then the lever effort gets bigger.

I’ve also had trouble with the hole in the arm being just barely too long for the post so it drags when cinched.

I think the main reason for the adoption of v brakes was that they allowed the brake to go on the moving part of the suspension fork or swing arm. Hydraulic disc brakes are so much better at that it isn’t even fair. It’s no wonder their heyday was brief. They survived a long time on cheap bikes though because they were just a little better than cantilevers

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Old 09-09-21, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute
Not all of their competitors Paul Motolites are dead easy to adjust in both tension and pad location. Far easier than Shimano.
Originally Posted by Pantah
Oh I would love to have Paul brakes on all my mountain bikes. However, those are quite pricey and when used Shimano/Avid brakes practically grow on trees, it leads me to pick the low hanging fruit.
I do have an NOS Surly Long Haul Trucker frame though which will get all the expensive goodies, one of which being the Paul Motolites or Touring Cantilever.
I'm sure they are lovely, but what is the difference in price between Paul's and, say, Shimano Deore or Alivio that work just as well (in my experience)... like 4X more?
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Old 09-09-21, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Darth Lefty
They’re never really balanced because one side is attached to the frame by housing and the other isn’t. Ideally the housing isn’t a factor but really it’s firmed up in compression. If you really crank up the springs, it can help, but then the lever effort gets bigger.

I’ve also had trouble with the hole in the arm being just barely too long for the post so it drags when cinched.

I think the main reason for the adoption of v brakes was that they allowed the brake to go on the moving part of the suspension fork or swing arm. Hydraulic disc brakes are so much better at that it isn’t even fair. It’s no wonder their heyday was brief. They survived a long time on cheap bikes though because they were just a little better than cantilevers
Suspension bikes were one reason they became popular. Another is that cantilevers have a design flaw - the lower the straddle cable the stronger your brakes for any given input at the brake lever, but the harder you pull the lever, the higher the straddle cable goes, reducing your braking power per amount of lever pull. V brakes and their derivatives give a linear response to lever input - pull the lever twice as hard and you get approximately twice as much force against the rim.
Plus Vs are much easier to set up than cantilevers, especially the ones with 'smooth post' brake pads as were common in the mid nineties when Vs came out.
Shimano actually made V brakes for use with smooth post pads for a short time (STX?) and they were a pain.
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Old 09-09-21, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by ClydeClydeson
I'm sure they are lovely, but what is the difference in price between Paul's and, say, Shimano Deore or Alivio that work just as well (in my experience)... like 4X more?
Agreed. Paul brakes aren't even in the same category as the linear-pull brakes in this category. Paul brakes, as well as most of his components, are God-level. Its nice when you can afford to get brakes made by Zeus, but sometimes you get stuck with brakes made by Koalemos, right?
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Old 09-09-21, 07:50 AM
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I think some have had problems with the Paul brakes, at least the Minimotos:

Paul Minimoto brake squawk: any solutions? - Bike Forums

I've been fortunate to have had a lot of good service from Tektro linear pulls. I've had one set of Avid Single Digits, but every other bike I've had with linear pulls have had Tektro brakes. I don't think I've ever had a Shimano linear pull, though understand they're also good. Important with any brake (for stopping performance at least) is a good brake pad compound.
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Old 09-09-21, 08:23 AM
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When you replace the cables and liners for V brakes you have to replace the noodles as well. They really get bad on the inside. They are only like 6 dollars a pair or something, and come with new rubber boots as well.
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