3alarmer 

...I think that forum might be dead now. A lot of the stuff they list as previously sold there seems above what I recognize as current market prices (local to me, anyway).

Kilroy1988 

Maybe I've spent too much time separating myself from feelings associated with conversations held with strangers on the internet, because unless if someone is threatening to do something that will actually cause consequences for me in real life then I have no feelings to offer in such a situation. I'm posting here because I have the time and I had some thoughts, and when others take the time to respond to me I attempt to repay them with my time as well. Hence the continuing conversation.

I've provided my opinion and my reasons for thinking in a certain way, and anyone who reads through this thread will know I am not alone in having such sentiments regarding the topic at hand. I also realize that many people do not agree and I came into this conversation knowing full well that would be the case, or else the criticism I had to share would likely not have occurred at all.

You're absolutely right, I can't help it if other people feel things. I can also refuse to acknowledge folks who decide to make such a conversation into a personal matter. None of this is a bother to me at all and if it turns out that my bringing this up and all of these people responding will have absolutely no influence on how the appraisals sub-forum is perceived then so be it, but at this point I rather doubt that is the case and I'm happy I brought it up. (EDIT: That is despite the fact that maybe several people will distance themselves from my posts in the future based on their responses here. The "social consequences" of an online forum thread are in fact inconsequential to me.)

Cheers!

-Gregory

Kilroy1988 

You're welcome to quote any text in this thread of mine that you perceive to be "aggressive" or "angry" and I can guarantee you I will take the time to reflect upon it and apologize if it seems that way indeed. From the moment I started the thread, when I specifically said "I don't mean to bash anyone," I have attempted to stick by that.

mstateglfr 

Ok.

miamijim

All you noobs are killing me....

Whoever can sell whatever for whatever to whoever for whatever whoever is willing to pay.

miamijim

If you dont know then how will you know?

Kilroy1988 

If it's not pointed out to me then how can I hope to learn? I just took a few minutes to read everything I wrote in this thread thus far and I can see a few lines that could be perceived as passive-aggressive but were not intended to be that way. It was mostly skepticism or sarcastic banter. If someone else wishes to provide me with an outside perspective, then I'll be happy to reflect upon my words as examples of hostility and how or why I should be more careful with my language in the future. I really haven't been angry at all during this entire affair and don't have a hard time imagining that my words could be misconstrued as such but perhaps I'm wrong.

-Gregory

SurferRosa

Except, this is one of the more fun threads.

[Repeatedly presses handset plunger on rotary phone, ardently asking, "hello? Hello? Hello!"]

repechage

Prices that meet or exceed New York prices.

repechage

Anaheim is where the folk who cannot afford Newport Beach or Costa Mesa live.
But Sailboats are where its at. Vintage fiberglass.

WolfgangVerne 

Fun read so far. No dog in this fight, but I'll throw in another data point.

I bought a Portage about three years ago from a guy in LA for $300, if I recall correctly he had it listed for a few days before I purchased. I ended up selling it in San Diego about a year later. Not the hottest market by any means, but I wouldn't say the SoCal market is cheap either. 23" frame, so a good size and it had all the original components. I even threw on some new Soma 650B tires before selling. I listed it at $500 on FB & Craigslist and didn't get much interest for the first week. Dropped the price down to $450 and ended up selling it for $400 a few days later.

Kilroy1988 

WolfgangVerne Thanks for taking the time to chime in! Another example that illustrates how local markets vary, especially compared to national/international ones, I think - and a reason to provide consideration for both possibilities.

If anyone else replies to me directly I apologize for a late response as I will not be around until tomorrow evening. Thankfully my current gig gives me rare opportunities such as going out into the desert in the middle of the night to trap and tag endangered giant kangaroo rats, and that's precisely what I'm doing tonight. Cheers!

-Gregory

Classtime 

Seven Pages!

Chuck M 

And near the end of 6 pages of argument is an example of a Portage selling for about 20% of what the OP said it is worth. I hope tonight there are some more bamboo bikes drunken posts to give it legs to make 9.

Kilroy1988 

Stopped for fuel and read this. When did I say every Portage was worth $2,000? Or any Portage for that matter if the seller is only willing to advertise locally (as Wolfgang did)? I haven't said anything of the sort. I and mostly everyone else here has been talking about potential prices given the market one chooses to use, and in my case the importance of presenting that plausible situation to the asker of an appraisal might they be interested in taking the time to advertise on eBay or similar markets.

A $400 valuation for a Portage in a local marketplace might be perfectly reasonable and I never said otherwise. I was talkinh about presenting the whole picture.
-Gregory

Chuck M 

So you want anyone on the internet offering opinions to research all markets and methods of sale to paint a broader picture of what the bike may be worth? I'm beginning to think some of the posters that feel you started this thread to stir up dissent may be right.

Mr. 66

I'll stop being cheap when you stop being a hardass...

clubman 

I will never stop being cheap. I invented thrift stores...ask Jeb Bush. It's the only way I/we were able to raise a family, buy a home (most of it) and send my kids to school.

However, being thrifty has never caused me to undervalue a bicycle, appraisals or otherwise.

Can we make this stop now? It's like we're in lockdown again.

seypat

I left a good job in the city.
Working for the man every night and day.

hazetguy 

for those not paying attention, that's the same bike which was asked about in the appraisal forum that started all of this nonsense. just sayin'

rccardr 

This started out being kinda entertaining. No longer.
Gregory, you’re a genuinely nice guy and a smart bike fella. Time to let this rest.
BB4, have a beer and go to bed.
Admins, time to lock this one up?

Piff 

Can we just get rid of the egos and admit to the facts?


1. C&V appraisals often does a poor job at helping forum newbies get their top dollar. Sometimes that's out of ignorance, sometimes a different perspective (i.e. what they'd like to pay rather than what the bike can bring in), or sometimes a desire to keep prices down by giving, well, dishonest advice.

2. The Portage is an $1800 bike. It's also a $200 bike. Products sell at the price the market can support. Marketing and audience play a huge role. Kilroy never said every single Portage should sell for $1800 or that every single Portage has, he merely wanted to call attention to the low-balling and that he's perturbed by the forum's culture of giving low prices for bikes/components that can certainly bring in more.

3. It's the internet, it's anonymous, and the social contract is tenuous at best, even on an old-school forum like BF. Especially when it's some random person that's using our knowledge to make money, rather than a discussion between regular forum members. I can certainly see how one could start rationalizing a quid pro quo attitude to giving appraisal askers a price lower than market-value. Maybe that's fair, maybe that isn't, but we can agree that it's dishonest, no?


I think all Kilroy wanted to do was inject a bit more honesty and/or thought behind the prices we give to strangers who come asking for help. I think the thread has had a bit of mission creep and now we're all carving up each other's posts like lawyers. We ought to reign it in a bit.

70sSanO

I don’t frequent the C&V Appraisal forum. I do think it is good to keep all of that away from the normal C&V threads. I wouldn’t get rid of it.

To be honest, except for exceptional rare and/or high end bikes, the appraisals/opinions/whatever for production bikes are just guesses made by a particular generation about stuff that, pretty much, only that generation cares about.

If you think a number is too low, just wait long enough and it will be sitting at some Goodwill. So sell it for whatever you can while you can get it.

But older bikes will never lose their charm. Someday people will be paying big bucks to find that ebike they wanted when they were a kid.

John

merziac

"dishonest"

You sure about that?

Piff 

I think in the specific way I mentioned, yeah.