robow

djb, that made me chuckle

Tourist in MSN

Me to.

It can be frustrating, trying to help someone for two days and then you find that for two days they have just been looking at something while they try to decide if they hate it so much that they don't want to try it.

That was several minutes of my life that I will never get back.

djb

Zac, it is true that the slippy nature of the leather shoes help with less friction, and I do like how one can make really small positional changes with no "grabbing". I've always figured this is part of why they work for me.

I got my first one in exactly the same circumstances as you, had an old seat taking apart and figured it was worth trying out.

If you were in Montreal I'd buy it off you to have a spare or for my wife.
I was serious about life being too short to not be comfortable riding. It really just is a seat.

robow

I somewhat understand what the OP is going thru. The first Brooks B17 that I got over 25 years ago, on the late great Sheldon Brown's advice, I knocked on that hard leather and thought, there is no way this is ever going to be comfortable. After a couple hundred miles of discomfort, I was just about ready to make it into a boat anchor, but then, I finally got it adjusted properly, the set back and tilt, along with a little break in, and have been a happy camper ever since.

But as I've always said, they're not for everyboody. (a pun on the bun intended)

headwind15

Since I was a bike store owner for over 12 years, I tried out a lot of seats. Isn't there some logic that if you don't like a seat n the first mile, that it's somewhat geometric, in that you are going to continue to dislike it more with time sitting on it. (OK, I understand that there is some adaption) I have about 30 different seats, some are take off seats, where customers opted for different seats when buying bikes, some are from leftover inventory and some from people hating their seat and these are seats from people coming in and upgrading. I have three brooks seats. The last time I tried a leather one, I lasted about 100 meters/ yards and switched it out for really pretty much any other (padded) seat, that did not feel like I was sitting on a rock. (I recommend that you do not torture yourself.)

zacster

Nobody is holding a gun to your head to read the thread either. It is the BF after all, where every topic gets hashed and rehashed a gazillion times no matter how trivial. I'm no nube here.

Anyway, I'm going to install it on a spare seatpost and try it out. The 5 boro is Sunday and I'm not going to ride with it, you know, nothing new on race day (no it is not a race, far from it) so I'll put the other saddle/post back on. If the B17 causes pain I'd rather be out on my own to just bail to the long silver limo, not in a group ride that I paid for.

And one reason I even bothered to post is that first my wife and then my adult daughter felt it and said "you gotta be f'ing kidding me".

Ok, enough. I'll let y'all know when I've given it a little time.

indyfabz

Good plan. The one time I did the 5B ride I think I spent as much time with a foot on the ground skateboarding as I did in the saddle.

tcs

AFAIK current manufacturers of tensioned leather saddles:

Berthoud - France
Brooks - UK
Gyes (Cardiff, Dia Compe, Fenix, Fyxation, Lekker, Origin8, Papillionaire, Shinola, Sobdeall, Spa, Torelli, Velo Orange, Zimbale, etc.) - Taiwan
Ideale - France
Lepper - Netherlands
Nasiruddin (Persons) - India
Rivet - AFAIK manufactured in Taiwan by Gyes but to their own proprietary designs
Sella Italia - Italy
Selle Anatomica - USA
Selle Monte Grappa - Italy
Tabor - Portugal

Buy it to sit on not look at yada yada whatever. Subjective, f'sure, but for a show bike my own list for saddles better-looking than a garden-variety Brooks B17 would include Brook's own Team Pro, the Berthoud Aspin, the Ideale 90, the Sella Italia Epoca, the Selle Anatomica with the cast frame and Chicago screws, and perhaps even the Selle Monte Grappa 1975 Charleston

djb

hey, apologize for the jerkish answer, wasn't intended to have a mean spirited thing to it.

and ya, your families reaction was pretty much the same as mine when I got my first one.
re real life break-in, my experience was a certain number of rides where after an hour or two my sitbones were a bit sensitive and then on one long ride with friends, I realized I wasn't thinking of the seat at all, and all was good after that. At that time, I had bike shorts with a pretty thin chammy, so with later Brooks that I got, I had better quality shorts and I certainly don't recall the same break in discomfort. I too ride other bike seats on multiple bikes so its interesting to note the difference between them.

I'd follow the general rule of a level saddle for setup, but if you do keep it and ride it a lot, you may notice the need for slight positional changes down the line as the leather changes shape--but unless you leave it out in the rain etc, the changes are a good long time away.

a good friend of ours got a Brooks and had no break in issues with it, put something like 7000kms on it, so there's another positive story to add.

happy boroughs riding. We have a similar thing here in Montreal, but as indyfabz said, the amount of skateboard pushing along in a traffic jam can be significant.
Cool event, called "Le Tour de L'ile", but having done it more than once and even photographed it a few times for one of the major sponsors back in the day, the amount of time spent standing in a huge crowd just to start and later in choke points, adds up a lot.
Still though, very neat to see so many people out and enjoying themselves. Like NY, its a neat part of Montreal--although woe to you if you forget its taking place and try to get somewhere by car. The road closures can be a real bear.

Ttom

My bike came with a B17, I dressed it top and bottom it is fine, not a lazy boy recliner but I do not focus on my seat anymore, I like it. Riding shorts and a B17 work for me.

zacster

Well, I just requested a return label, this just isn't for me. I'm not even going to try. I did the 5 boro tour yesterday and of all the 32000 riders I saw 2 guys together on Bromptons that were riding Brooks so I asked. Their response was to the effect of "they're OK". It wasn't a rousing endorsement. I get the feeling this is an LP vs digital streaming debate. Yes, LPs still sound good on a good turntable, but digital streaming is so easy and convenient and the right streaming services sound just as good if not better, and forget about the intervening technologies. Yea, a Brooks can feel good, but a modern padded saddle done correctly will be just as good if not better, and lets forget about my Concor saddle. My LPs hardly ever get played since I signed up for Qobuz.

I did the 5 boro yesterday on the old saddle and it was fine and never gave it a thought. I think the rest of the bike needs rethinking though for a long tour. It may not be the best option. Or maybe it is the rider that needs rethinking??? A more fit rider would do better. I have three months or more to get into shape.

Thanks for all the replies. Even the harsh ones are appreciated!

tcs

I was struck by this image from the Heinz Stücke Museum:

MAK

I love my B-17's. I have one on my touring, folding and hybrid bikes and they were comfortable first ride for me. FOR ME, the key is that I sit ON the Brooks and not lean on it which is why I don't have one on my road bike. Everyone is different. Remember the adage, "Use the right tool for the right job." I suspect that many/some who dislike the Brooks aren't using it properly. An expensive narrow racing saddle on an upright touring or hybrid won't be comfortable for many riders, but may be great on their road bikes.

Germany_chris

There are many good leather saddles out there for the conversation to begin and end with Brooks like it does so often

CAT7RDR

That makes sense to me. I have an unused B17 honey brown with copper rivets and after two years I think I will use it to replace a Cobb saddle on my MTB that is slowly being converted to a touring flatbar upright. Your comment sealed the deal. Thanks!

Ttom

Agreed, there is no one bike that is best for all, no one bar, and no one seat.

tgot 

Several prior posts mentioned family and hard leather....

My daughter asked about the Sella Anatomica I had started using. She pushed it with her finger, and asked, "Is that comfortable?"

I said, "Not particularly, but it's OK"

She asked "Why do you ride with it, then?"

"Because I noticed it's not any worse after fifty miles than it was at the start."

Maybe someday I'll be able to comment on 100+ miles...

phughes

I have tried to stay out of this, but I have to say that a Brooks, and other "hard" leather saddles, are sensitive to seat height. If you get it too high, you will have pain, and I have seen many complain of perineum pain with the B17, and every one I have seen personally, had the seat too high. After correcting that issue, their problem went away. I had issues as well, sliding forward, and pain, until I set the seat lower. Now I do not feel the saddle, and am much more stable on the bike. Long days are no problem. I also do not have to tilt it ridiculously high in front to stay planted on the saddle.

Saddles are a personal thing, but more often than not, if you are having saddle pain, it is fit related and not the saddle.

MAK

I hope it works out for you. As another stated on this thread, the Brooks leather saddle is slippery and many find that a slight upward tilt helps keep you stable (I certainly do).
Good luck.

staehpj1

Perhaps elsewhere there is more variety. I can't recall the last time I saw a leather saddle other than a brooks in the wild here in the US. It has definitely been quite a few decades. I don't see very many brooks saddles either, but they seem to constitute pretty much 100% of the leather saddles. Here on the forum you'd get the idea everyone toured on them. On the road I saw one once in a while.

zacster

On the Five Boro Bike Tour the other day I saw 2, and they were together. That's out of 30,000 riders. While waiting in the interminable line for the ferry back to Manhattan I didn't see any and there were thousands waiting. While this isn't long distance touring and you get a lot of people that get on their bikes once a year to do this, I thought I'd see more.

djb

Here in Montreal you see them around regularly, but bike culture is pretty big here, so there's just lots of cyclists and all kinds of bikes.

In the end, making decisions on what others use or what Joe blow internet person says isn't worth anything. It's just a seat and you just want to be comfortable riding for X hours power day, if that's your thing.
​​​​​​Zac, unfortunately you'll just never know how a Brooks is for you as you didn't try it, so it's all a moot point really.
But given that you've got a proven seat that works really well, that's all that matters.

staehpj1

I find it interesting that newcomers read the forums and get the idea that certain things are a given. I always wondered at it when a newcomer's first decisions seemed to be "of course I'll be getting a Brooks saddle and stealth camping". The hype over stealth camping seems to have died down in recent years so that hasn't been as common of a statement (fwiw, I wild camp in plain sight a lot and try to avoid staying where stealth is needed).

I think it comes from the fact that the relatively small owner base of the product really like the product and are inclined to say so. There are other products like that. The Rohloff internal geared hubs come to mind. They get a good bit of attention here and have a very loyal following. I've never even seen one in my travels either on a bike or in a bike shop. I may have crossed paths with one or more and not noticed though.

zacster

Newcomer? I've been a member here for 18 years. I haven't gone over 10k posts though, maybe because I'm out riding. There is nothing new on the Bikeforums. I stopped posting for about 6 months in the recent past because biking took a back seat (no pun intended, but a good one) to other matters. That's all behind me now (to continue with unintended puns).

I needed to get my behind back on the seat and only even considered the Brooks because I saw all the pictures in the sticky. The money wasn't the thing, it wasn't to conform. I needed a new saddle and saw them and thought that maybe this would work. But as I've already said when my wife and daughter looked at it (both of whom did the 5 boro with me) they said something to the effect of "you gotta be f*ing kidding me" and I completely agreed. I was game to try it though but in the end (another unintended pun) I decided to just send it back.

tcs

Shame, really. Like GermanChris said, 'there are many good leather saddles out there'.




Watched a Five Borough Bike Tour video on YouTube and spotted a half dozen.