The Popsicle Index
10-12-12, 09:51 AM
#1
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The Popsicle Index
"The Popsicle Index is the % of people who believe a child can leave their home, go to the nearest place to buy a popsicle or snack, and come home alone safely.
For example, if you feel that 50% of your neighbors believe a child in your neighborhood would be safe, then your Popsicle Index is 50%. The Popsicle Index is based on gut level feelings of the people who have intimate knowledge of a place, rather than facts and figures."
For example, if you feel that 50% of your neighbors believe a child in your neighborhood would be safe, then your Popsicle Index is 50%. The Popsicle Index is based on gut level feelings of the people who have intimate knowledge of a place, rather than facts and figures."
The Popsicle Indes is a measure of Quality of Life that might mean a lot to carfree and carlight people. What is the Popsicle Index in your community? What would it take to improve your Popsicle Index?
The Popsicle Index
Solari
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10-12-12, 09:54 AM
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Does the Good Humor man, or an Ice Cream truck count? How old of a child are we talking about here? Many stores have restrictions on unaccompanied minors on their premises.
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10-12-12, 10:08 AM
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I don't think it should count, I guess. But if you want to count it, that's fine too. As I understand it, The index is a subjective measure of how people feel about their community. But I think you would get a more accurate measure if you made ti the nearest stationary location. Not necessarily a store--maybe you live on a block where your child could safely go to the neighbor's house and get a popsicle.
Personally, I would not want my 13 year old grandson to walk to the nearest store. It's a liquor store with unsavory types hanging out, and you have to enter from a parking lot/alley that has drug traffic. I wouldn't mind him going to the second nearest store, a Rite-Aid that's only 2 blocks from the house.
So I guess my community doesn'tpass the Popsicle test. I think less than 50% of my neighbors would want their kids to go alone to the nearest store. What would it take to make the neighborhood popsicle =-worthy? I think shutting down the liquor store would help. I'd love to see a little grocery there, but it ain't going to happen anytime soon. The economics of this community are what really needs to change.
I hope the new bike lane on the busy street will be a step in the right direction. This shows the dedication of community members, to last out a decade-long battle to get the bike lane installed. I also hope it calms traffic and makes the neighborhood a more attractive place to live. Here's an interesting article about the new bike lane.
Personally, I would not want my 13 year old grandson to walk to the nearest store. It's a liquor store with unsavory types hanging out, and you have to enter from a parking lot/alley that has drug traffic. I wouldn't mind him going to the second nearest store, a Rite-Aid that's only 2 blocks from the house.
So I guess my community doesn'tpass the Popsicle test. I think less than 50% of my neighbors would want their kids to go alone to the nearest store. What would it take to make the neighborhood popsicle =-worthy? I think shutting down the liquor store would help. I'd love to see a little grocery there, but it ain't going to happen anytime soon. The economics of this community are what really needs to change.
I hope the new bike lane on the busy street will be a step in the right direction. This shows the dedication of community members, to last out a decade-long battle to get the bike lane installed. I also hope it calms traffic and makes the neighborhood a more attractive place to live. Here's an interesting article about the new bike lane.
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10-12-12, 10:11 AM
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The nearest place to buy a Popsicle is a freeway-side Circle-K about two miles away...and the only way to get there is via narrow 45mph roads with no curb, shoulder or sidewalk. Most people here opt to drive their kids an extra mile to the ice cream place.
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"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
10-12-12, 10:18 AM
#5
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What do you think it would take to improve your Popsicle Index?
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10-12-12, 10:20 AM
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a lot of money and a competent local government...the odds of either being about the same as me winning the lotto.
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"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
10-12-12, 10:21 AM
#7
You gonna eat that?
It's a BS stat based on nothing.
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Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
10-12-12, 10:22 AM
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Since the index is just a pop quiz with too many variables left unstated to be of any use, here is my pop answer that has as much value as this "Index".
Establish a store in every neighborhood (or within walking distance) that sells small snacks and similar items for children.
Establish a store in every neighborhood (or within walking distance) that sells small snacks and similar items for children.
10-12-12, 11:06 AM
#9
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As explained in the link, it's not a statistic at all. It's a jumping off point for discussion of local quality of life.
So how would you feel about your kid going out for ice cream in your neighborhood? And what would have to happen to make you feel better about it?
So how would you feel about your kid going out for ice cream in your neighborhood? And what would have to happen to make you feel better about it?
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10-12-12, 11:11 AM
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Since the index is just a pop quiz with too many variables left unstated to be of any use, here is my pop answer that has as much value as this "Index".
Establish a store in every neighborhood (or within walking distance) that sells small snacks and similar items for children.
Establish a store in every neighborhood (or within walking distance) that sells small snacks and similar items for children.
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10-12-12, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Catherrine Austin Fitts
The purpose of the Popsicle Index is to inspire continous conversation and learning in every neighborhood and village on earth about what it means to feel safe and secure where you live and work, to be phyically free to wander and roam without concern and to identify and shift the people and things that contribute or drain that feeling.
Maybe a passersby can be trusted to leave my child alone, but she drives like a maniac through our neighborhood. Maybe a child is physically safe going to the local store, but his parents are concerned about the chemicals and unknown substances in snacks these days, or the influence of older kids hanging around the store. Maybe the family is too poor for the child to have the money to go buy a treat. Maybe she will be perfectly safe going to the market alone, but die of a preventable disease for lack of basic healthcare. Or maybe there is no market nearby, or any jobs either, so parents commute to someone else's neighborhood to work and shop and bank.
Maybe a passersby can be trusted to leave my child alone, but she drives like a maniac through our neighborhood. Maybe a child is physically safe going to the local store, but his parents are concerned about the chemicals and unknown substances in snacks these days, or the influence of older kids hanging around the store. Maybe the family is too poor for the child to have the money to go buy a treat. Maybe she will be perfectly safe going to the market alone, but die of a preventable disease for lack of basic healthcare. Or maybe there is no market nearby, or any jobs either, so parents commute to someone else's neighborhood to work and shop and bank.
https://solari.com/articles/popsicle_index/
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Last edited by Roody; 10-12-12 at 11:19 AM.
10-12-12, 11:21 AM
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Since the index is just a pop quiz with too many variables left unstated to be of any use, here is my pop answer that has as much value as this "Index".
Establish a store in every neighborhood (or within walking distance) that sells small snacks and similar items for children.
Establish a store in every neighborhood (or within walking distance) that sells small snacks and similar items for children.
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"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
10-12-12, 12:11 PM
#13
Bicycle Repair Man !!!
Sitting at about 99% here... but this takes into consideration that my daughters are 12 and almost 15 and not much younger children.
10-12-12, 12:20 PM
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I would question the judgement of any parent that would think it is safe in any community that they haven't known their neighbours for their entire lives. One has only to watch the news (or check their states sexual offender database) to realize that there are way to many evil/sick people in populated areas...
https://www.topix.net/forum/city/whit...JPKKCGIUPEK1II
https://www.topix.net/forum/city/whit...JPKKCGIUPEK1II
10-12-12, 12:22 PM
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Wow! Yiou're very fortunate. I would say I'm at less than 50%, since I rarely see little kids playing in my neighborhood. What makes your community so great?
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10-12-12, 12:26 PM
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Well, the nearest place to get a popsicle is caddy corner to the apartment complex I live in, which puts it about 2x as far from my apartment as the nearest school bus stop. So it's maybe 100 feet max from my place or 100 yards from the other side of the complex. In addition, we frequently have a popsicle truck that drives through the apartment complex. So I guess we are good on that aspect.
But it seems that the real question is a gut-level appraisal of whether your neighborhood is safe for children to navigate alone. From that stand point, the answer is an unqualified yes. But in answer to the question, is there anywhere they would want to go? From that respect, I think it's a no. They can go to the aforementioned convenience store, or play in one of the small playgrounds in the complex, but there are no parks, no streams or small forests. Quite frankly, its rare to see unattended children here.
But it seems that the real question is a gut-level appraisal of whether your neighborhood is safe for children to navigate alone. From that stand point, the answer is an unqualified yes. But in answer to the question, is there anywhere they would want to go? From that respect, I think it's a no. They can go to the aforementioned convenience store, or play in one of the small playgrounds in the complex, but there are no parks, no streams or small forests. Quite frankly, its rare to see unattended children here.
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Last edited by Artkansas; 10-12-12 at 12:33 PM.
10-12-12, 12:37 PM
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According to the Megan's Law website. "90% of child victims know their offender, with almost half of the offenders being a family member. Of sexual assaults against people age 12 and up, approximately 80% of the victims know the offender." So the big danger is not drive-by-pedophiles, but people the child knows well, especially family members.
So I suspect that if one's neighborhood appears safe, it probably is. Of course, all children should receive training in what to do in a situation where they are confronted by a hostile adult.
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Last edited by Artkansas; 10-12-12 at 12:53 PM.
10-12-12, 01:25 PM
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I would question the judgement of any parent that would think it is safe in any community that they haven't known their neighbours for their entire lives. One has only to watch the news (or check their states sexual offender database) to realize that there are way to many evil/sick people in populated areas...
https://www.topix.net/forum/city/whit...JPKKCGIUPEK1II
https://www.topix.net/forum/city/whit...JPKKCGIUPEK1II
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"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
10-12-12, 01:58 PM
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My daughter just started to walk, and has no concept of money at 11-months old; so I don't feel she would be safe walking that two blocks to a store by herself. She'd probably try and eat a car.
10-12-12, 02:03 PM
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According to the Megan's Law website. "90% of child victims know their offender, with almost half of the offenders being a family member. Of sexual assaults against people age 12 and up, approximately 80% of the victims know the offender." So the big danger is not drive-by-pedophiles, but people the child knows well, especially family members.
So I suspect that if one's neighborhood appears safe, it probably is. Of course, all children should receive training in what to do in a situation where they are confronted by a hostile adult.
So I suspect that if one's neighborhood appears safe, it probably is. Of course, all children should receive training in what to do in a situation where they are confronted by a hostile adult.
10-12-12, 02:05 PM
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'tis always been that way, everywhere. Even if you think you "know" your neighbors, you probably don't. Yet, somehow the majority of kids have managed to survive. It may have had something to do with parents doing the best they can to teach their kids about the realities of the world, doing their own due diligence and trusting that the odds are more in favor of a nice, uneventful life than a life of tragedy and drama.
Again, the issue is not that you 'know' your neighbors in any fundamental sense, but rather that no one in the community feels a sense of anonymity. Anonymity seems to encourage poor behaviour. And anonymity is the natural consequence of larger communities.
10-12-12, 02:22 PM
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I think it's quite the opposite. The news is usually correct in the details of the tragedy of the day. But, they do not convey the reality of the rarity of the tragedy, along with the odds that the 'victim' often made some bad choices that contributed. The news is not the place to get a true sense of danger, unless you are a drug dealer, drunk driver, etc.
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10-12-12, 02:30 PM
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I don't have kids, so my opinion might be skewed, but I'd say 75% of my neighbors would be okay with it. It would mean walking about a mile down some roads, some with sidewalks, some without, down to the supermarket.
There's an actual ice cream place, but that's along a pretty busy road that has no sidewalks, so it would drop to maybe 20% then.
There's an actual ice cream place, but that's along a pretty busy road that has no sidewalks, so it would drop to maybe 20% then.
10-12-12, 02:53 PM
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I'm sure Penticton's Popsicle Index would easily be above 90%.
I live in a very nice, walkable city.
I live in a very nice, walkable city.
10-12-12, 03:06 PM
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I think it's quite the opposite. The news is usually correct in the details of the tragedy of the day. But, they do not convey the reality of the rarity of the tragedy, along with the odds that the 'victim' often made some bad choices that contributed. The news is not the place to get a true sense of danger, unless you are a drug dealer, drunk driver, etc.
Can people blow the danger out of proportion? Of course, but that is far preferable to underestimating the dangers--at least for parents...
