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Loaded touring... 3x6 or 3x7?

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Loaded touring... 3x6 or 3x7?

Old 11-23-18, 02:01 PM
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deux jambes
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Loaded touring... 3x6 or 3x7?

Who’s riding with such setups?

I’m beginning the process of choosing gears for a project, but my lack of experience coupled with a limited knowledge, and I’m feeling more than stumped.

My intention is to head for miles, and miles out of town. Bike camping. Mostly long stretches of flat terrain with a modest incline that the eye might miss... Until well out of dodge that is! At which point real climbing will be a part of the deal.


Here’s what I’m working with:
  • Trek 520 touring frame (long chain stays)
  • Shimano FH-1055; 32 spoke, 126mm OLN (takes UG & HG)
  • Stronglight 99; 86 bcd (right now I have 48t/42t/28t chainrings, and am willing to swap out as necessary)
  • Cyclone M-II GT derailleurs
  • Suntour barcons

I do not currently have a cassette for this build.

I’ll be building a pair of H+ Son TB14 rims, and mounting Soma Vitesse 700x33c tires.

I’m a fan of minimalism, but at times when there is a need to go fully loaded, the bike will carry cargo on its front, and rear with low riders, as well as a handlebar, and saddle bag. Still, as much as I can help it, gear will be of the lightweight variety. I weigh in at 150lbs.

In the saddle, under the conditions of regular city commuting, I consider myself an easy going rider. While I do want to challenge my progress in fitness. I don’t necessarily plan on changing my easy going approach to cycling as I take on touring next spring.

So... 3x6, 3x7... What gears (front & rear) are you all using for similar purposes as I’m planning for? Or what feedback can you offer to help take the guesswork out of selecting a cassette, chainrings, ratios, chain length... ?

Btw, I’m not too sharp about diligently replying to replies here in the forum even if I mean to be. So let me just say thanks in advance to all!

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Old 11-23-18, 02:24 PM
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It depends on whether you want to keep your crankset half step or not. Work out the math and gear charts. If you don't understand how half step works and what it's for, ask.

Half step works OK with 5 speed or 6 speed. It's basically pointless IMO once you get to 7 or higher. Going with 7 speed is going to be easier WRT cassette availability. Sometimes spacing in the rear can get a bit tight. While a wide range is useful for touring, tight spacing is kind of irrelevant IME. 6 speed would be fine, but it's going to be harder to find quality cassettes in this day and age.

My touring bike? 2x10 speed with a 50/34 modern compact crank. It's plenty gear for me. Back in the 80s my touring bike had 2x5 with a 14-28 IIRC. Was good enough for loaded tours when I was 19...
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Old 11-23-18, 03:09 PM
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Hmm. We did a little bit of touring on our tandem with 3x5 gearing. If it was me doin' the askin', I'd answer by asking a different question. What gears do you expect to use most and which gear could you do without? I guess that's two questions. You said riding mostly flat terrain. You mentioned Dodge but I assume that was metaphorical and your info doesn't say where you are located. So assuming mostly flat terrain but not all...you can always get by without the highest gear(s) but when you come to non-flat terrain you really need whatever low gear you might have been tempted to leave off the bike. If it was my bike I'd go with 2x6, skewed toward the low end.
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Old 11-23-18, 03:17 PM
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This is what I am running on my Batavus Randonneur GL:


Ritzelrechner

52/42/32 x 14-32 freewheel.

What I find is that I am often wishing for something in between 52x14 and 52x17. That's the downside of a larger spread on a limited number of cogs.
My next upgrade would probably be a 8/9/10-speed cassette and a 26/28T granny gear chainring up front.

EDIT:
@deux jambes Let's visualize what you are planning, assuming you use your current setup with a common 14-28T 6-speed:

Link to Gear-calculator. Slide cogs and settings to see the effect on range.

For loaded touring, assuming all those panniers are full and weigh a total of 20kg... Cyclingabout advises a low gear of around 20-25 gear inches. Which you could reach with a 32/34 large cog rear freewheel.

Last edited by JaccoW; 11-23-18 at 03:33 PM.
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Old 11-23-18, 03:28 PM
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I've been using Sun tour Bar end ratchet friction shifters,
13 34t* 6 speed freewheels, on Beefy Axle Hubs..
Phil Old style hub, and now a Bullseye 48 spoke , 40 spoke front Wheels I built
spare spokes already .. in the wheel
700c 35, & 40 Tires

Campagnolo (Close out Euclid MTB) Derailleurs
110/74 cranks, 50,40, 24 t

shipped in Plane for several long tours in Europe..

last tour a Feb to November span, British Isles, (Visa extended)

* (If it were cassette, the K cassette seemed ideal still 13 - 34,
added 7th cog on the big end )




..

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Old 11-23-18, 04:25 PM
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20-25 gear inches is a safe catch-all low gear, but it really depends on fitness level, expected terrain, and how much stuff you like to carry. If you're carrying a laptop, cameras, tablet, and that sort of thing, yeah, maybe. For me, I pack light, and I'd prefer to walk or get off and rest than to run anything lower than 1:1. I find that if you strive for a low gear about 20 gear inches lower than you'd use on an unloaded bike in similar terrain, you'll be alright with touring bags.

FWIW that half step set up with a 4t spread and 28/44/48 chainrings really is only going to work with a wide range 5 speed rear, say 14-17-21-26-32 that was once typical. For 6 or 7, you'd need to go to a 3t spread like 45/48 for half step, or most of the gears will cancel out as in the charts above. ^^^

Personally I would do a normal 10t spread, ie, 28/38/48.
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Old 11-23-18, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by deux jambes
Who’s riding with such setups?

I’m beginning the process of choosing gears for a project, but my lack of experience coupled with a limited knowledge, and I’m feeling more than stumped.

My intention is to head for miles, and miles out of town. Bike camping. Mostly long stretches of flat terrain with a modest incline that the eye might miss... Until well out of dodge that is! At which point real climbing will be a part of the deal.


Here’s what I’m working with:
  • Trek 520 touring frame (long chain stays)
  • Shimano FH-1055; 32 spoke, 126mm OLN (takes UG & HG)
  • Stronglight 99; 86 bcd (right now I have 48t/42t/28t chainrings, and am willing to swap out as necessary)
  • Cyclone M-II GT derailleurs
  • Suntour barcons

I do not currently have a cassette for this build.

I’ll be building a pair of H+ Son TB14 rims, and mounting Soma Vitesse 700x33c tires.

I’m a fan of minimalism, but at times when there is a need to go fully loaded, the bike will carry cargo on its front, and rear with low riders, as well as a handlebar, and saddle bag. Still, as much as I can help it, gear will be of the lightweight variety. I weigh in at 150lbs.

In the saddle, under the conditions of regular city commuting, I consider myself an easy going rider. While I do want to challenge my progress in fitness. I don’t necessarily plan on changing my easy going approach to cycling as I take on touring next spring.

So... 3x6, 3x7... What gears (front & rear) are you all using for similar purposes as I’m planning for? Or what feedback can you offer to help take the guesswork out of selecting a cassette, chainrings, ratios, chain length... ?
so you plus gear will weigh less than just me. That's important since I'll list my setup. You may not need the same since you are lighter.

I had a 3x7 friction touring bike with a 48/38/28 crank and 12/32 cassette. It worked fine for the time I had it and I was always able to find gear ratios that worked for the ever changing riding conditions.

my current touring bike has 3x9 shifting with 48/38/26 cassette mated to an 11/32 cassette. The 38 ring and 9 cogs is really nice for overall riding. Because of 9 cogs and smaller jumps, I can stay in that middle front ring for most of my riding. Just an easier setup.

I would for sure want a smaller middle ring and a smaller granny ring than your setup. 48/38/26. But again, that's based on my riding, my total weight on the bike, and my fitness. I dont use the small ring often, but when I do its usually because i need it to mix with the 28 or 32 tooth cogs. So a 26t ring is appreciated.
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Old 11-23-18, 06:31 PM
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I have done a lot of touring and have also had bikes with Soma Vitesse tires, but not together. Love the tires but I don't think I would tour with them. They are super supple but thin and mine were prone to flats. Consider something stouter like Schwalbe Marathons when loaded.
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Old 11-23-18, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine
For 6 or 7, you'd need to go to a 3t spread like 45/48 for half step, or most of the gears will cancel out as in the charts above. ^^^
That is my plan for half step:


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Old 11-23-18, 06:43 PM
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I'm probably doing it all wrong...

the old "half step and a granny" bikes were all 5 speeds- even the 1985 Trek 720. By the time 6 speeds come around, you get a lot more of the evenly spaced chainrings. I've mostly used the middle ring and then used the big ring as a "little bit" higher of a gear- and pretty much ignore the little ring until I'm climbing.

It looks like a lot of old tourers used a 50T big ring and usually a 28T granny. Nowadays, it seems a lot of people opt for smaller big rings- but I guess you can get a few fewer cogs in the back to even that out...
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Old 11-24-18, 09:42 AM
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I recently went with 7 speed freewheels because i came across an old style phil wood hub. I am using a crank of 41-24 and alternate between a 13-28 and a 13-34 mega range style freewheel. I use the larger when doing loaded touring but honestly most times the 13-28 is fine.

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Old 11-24-18, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by 52telecaster
I recently went with 7 speed freewheels be ause i came accross an old style phil wood hub. I am using a crank of 41-24 and alternate between a 13-28 and a 13-34 mega range style freewheel. I use the larger when doing loaded touring but honestly most times the 13-28 is fine.
My Phil freewheel hub will fit a 5 speed or an Ultra 6, but I can't get a 6 on it...
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Old 11-24-18, 10:27 AM
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...I think all the stuff you listed will probly work out OK, and once you start fooling aroiund with a gearing calculator, you'll quickly realize whether you need to buy another, wider range cogset for the rear to amplify your range.

My only observation is that if I were going to the trouble of building wheels for a loaded touring bike that I planned to use for long rides out of town and into remote areas, I would not build them on 32 spoke hubs. I would go to the trouble of obtaining hubs drilled for at least 36 spokes.
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Old 11-24-18, 11:36 AM
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Sure, 36 are stronger when properly built than 32 due to each spoke taking on less weight/stress, but at 150# the rider isn't close to any sort of vague limit on properly tensioned 32h wheels, even when packed for touring.

it is good general advice, just doesnt seem necessary in this specific instance if 32h is what they already have.
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Old 11-24-18, 11:39 AM
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1 x 3. Sturmey archer aw. 46x21.
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Old 11-24-18, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by The Golden Boy
My Phil freewheel hub will fit a 5 speed or an Ultra 6, but I can't get a 6 on it...
im not sure the exact age of my hub but 6s fit easy. 7s are real close but fit as well, depending on the freewheel.
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Old 11-24-18, 02:00 PM
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My Phil freewheel hub will fit a 5 speed or an Ultra 6, but I can't get a 6 on it...
My touring wheel set, was built around a single threaded hubshell,
Type; Steel tube, aluminum hub flanges..

It Could have been remnants from a Front Hub , since Phil's Unique discs screwed on
(RH thread on left side, a brake tightens onto a RH thread)

I bought at a bike shop's garage sale, I shipped it down to PW Co.
and They pressed in the 126 long rear axle assembly , and shipped it back..

You could do the same.. send hub, (cheaper than whole wheel)
and ask for the width you need, they can put on new bearings at the same time..




..
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Old 11-24-18, 02:21 PM
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Crawl to the clouds on my Cyclone equipped 1987 Trek 520 Cirrus. SunShine hubs ;=)

no shame 3x7
Shimano Megarange 34t biggie
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Old 11-24-18, 02:35 PM
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I did my first (and only tour for now) in 2013 on a converted hybrid machine (would be nice to find a lighter touring bike in the future). I went 3X7 and had a 48-38-28 with a 13-28 in the rear. My route encompassed 400 miles in 4 days of mostly flat terrain. I did have one mountain pass to climb which went fine. The gearing was fine with the exception of one hill where I was really wishing for one more lower gear. I found the extra cog over the 3X6 a nice thing to have.
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Old 11-24-18, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by crank_addict
Crawl to the clouds on my Cyclone equipped 1987 Trek 520 Cirrus. SunShine hubs ;=)

no shame 3x7
Shimano Megarange 34t biggie
+1, got a cyclone and a 34 back there. With the 24 up front it is very reassuring.
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Old 11-24-18, 02:47 PM
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FWIW, unless the project requires true vintage gearing I bump 6 cog freewheels/cassettes to 7 cog as a matter of course.

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Old 11-24-18, 04:13 PM
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My touring bike also has an 86 BCD crank, with 48, 44, and 30 tooth rings. I have a six-speed freewheel in back, with 14, 16, 19, 23, 28, and 34 tooth cogs. It gives nice even half-steps, and I use the half-stepping feature a lot. I have never wanted a higher gear, but once in a while I wish I could go a tad lower. As I get older (in fact, I'm already pretty old), I may switch the front to a 46-42-28 setup.
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Old 11-24-18, 05:13 PM
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My '84 Univega Gran Tourismo has a 3x5, but when I'm done will sport a 3x6 (I have several SunTour ultra-spaced SunTour freewheels) Not sure about future crankset gearing since mine is original. Original front is a Sugino GT 52/46/28, rear is five-speed 14-32 SunTour five-speed. I have several SunTour Winner Ultra sixes ranging from concobs to 13-21, 13-24. 13-26 and 13-28. I don't really need much gearing above 90gi (my flat-terrain cruising gear is 81-85gi), so the 52/46/28 might need to go...Maybe keep the 46 as a large ring, and that 28 is fine for a small... Any suggestions????
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Old 11-24-18, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Cougrrcj
My '84 Univega Gran Tourismo has a 3x5, but when I'm done will sport a 3x6 (I have several SunTour ultra-spaced SunTour freewheels) Not sure about future crankset gearing since mine is original. Original front is a Sugino GT 52/46/28, rear is five-speed 14-32 SunTour five-speed. I have several SunTour Winner Ultra sixes ranging from concobs to 13-21, 13-24. 13-26 and 13-28. I don't really need much gearing above 90gi (my flat-terrain cruising gear is 81-85gi), so the 52/46/28 might need to go...Maybe keep the 46 as a large ring, and that 28 is fine for a small... Any suggestions????
Your gearing as is is pretty good.



IMHO leave it alone. Those gran turismos had pretty well thought out gearing. A surprising number of ostensibly half step touring bikes from that era had badly planned gearing -- where all the gears were duplicates. I'm not a big fan of half step myself, but it was a good way in the five speed era to give reasonably closely spaced gears in the normal riding range, and still have a couple or three bail out climbing gears.

If you want to go to a more modern single step program, a 10t difference between chainrings works pretty well usually. Most people will then leave it in the middle most of the time. It's always advised to work out your gear charts instead of randomly putting stuff together. The calculator here really works well.
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Old 11-24-18, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Kovkov
1 x 3. Sturmey archer aw. 46x21.

Except I use a 22... old age

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Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"
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