Surly Pack Rat review (bit late it's been discontinued, but...)
09-03-21, 03:19 AM
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Surly Pack Rat review (bit late it's been discontinued, but...)
Hi all,
a few years ago I posted asking about bikes and eventually settled on a pack rat but eventually didn't buy it, but a couple of months ago I finally did - it's been discontinued but my LBS (in Japan)'s supplier had a 2018 model (big rack, racing green!) in my size so I got (as it turns out: very) lucky.
I ended up posting this review on the surly site a few days ago, I thought I'd also share it here:
It seems the PR is discontinued - I want to offer my thoughts in case Surly ever decide to revisit this awesome bike.
IMHO this is a near-perfect utility bicycle - it's simple (rim brakes), capable of distance (road-sized wheels), a bit lively and fun (ie it's not the LHT) durable (surly steel), and utilitarian (the front rack and geometry work brilliantly).
This last is key: a utility bike needs to carry stuff, and in my experience a front basket is by far the best way to do this - with panniers you have to divide your luggage between them, and rear weight (even in a basket) is always hard to control. Whereas a front basket you can throw your bag in with zero thought, easily control the weight with your arms, AND can see (and reach) your luggage easily. And the PR geometry means no steering issues - I've carried nearly 10kg on mine with no effect on steering, which is awesome.
But the PR being discontinued implies it's not selling well...why not? Here's my guess:
I have seen a lot of internet bike people are saying they don't really see the point of the PR (and questioning rim brakes!). But ...I think these are probably bike connoisseurs (the kind of people who hang out on internet bike forums!...and who often spend 3K on a really great bike!). Compared to those, the Pack Rat is undoubtedly lacking.
But that's simply not the right market for the PR: it's an EVERYONE UTILITY bike: simple, reliable, capable, durable, a bit fun, and able to carry stuff. But yes, not the lightest and definitely not the best spec...but for me that's fine.
But definitely 4 not 5 stars - minus one star because it's somewhat overpriced for "utilitarian". IMHO if the price was sub-1K (same as cross-check) (maybe by embracing utilitarian: friction shifters! square taper bottom bracket?? Make a bike that can survive the collapse of civilisation!) and marketed it as such, then I think the PR might have a future: as a "standard bicycle" that people own because it gets the job (mid distance utilitarian + a little fun) done with no fuss. Kind of "your grandad's bike" (but perhaps a little sturdier: esp that front rack). I think this is a great bike for utilitarian/commuting usage - I'm loving mine. It's fun utilitarian tho: I also ride it quite a bit just for fun.
Just my tuppence worth, of course, I'm super happy to have snared a PR before it was discontinued and wanted to share my thoughts in case anyone on here is ever looking at the PR (used, or maybe there are some still around)
happy riding everybody
UPDATE:
I've been putting the bike through it's paces this week: I went camping for a couple of nights (first time bikepacking) and I also did what turned out to be quite a speed run (the mood just took me) last night, so I thought I'd comment on those two.
TLDR: front loading works great, and speedy runs work great too, but gearing isn't low enough for significant climbs with a load.
Camping:
First time bikepacking so I don't really have lightweight equipment so worked with what I had, total of about 15kg(!), 10kg on the front basket (5kg in a saddlebag), and I can confirm that it does exactly what Surly said it would: steering is not even slightly affected by the front load - no-handed was a bit optimistic (but doable for a second or two) but one-fingered steering was easy. I also enjoyed being able to control the load with my arms (I've done heavy loads on the back before, I much prefer it up front). On the journey home (50km, 2.5hours) I picked up the pace and no real problems, bike was still easy to handle.
That said, I committed a navigation error and ended up climbing a mountain, and the gearing wasn't adequate: I ended up pushing quite a bit (anything approaching 10% i think). If I was going to tour mountains regularly I'd definitely either switch to a mountain drivetrain or (more likely) get a second bike that's more suitable. Overall that's my one gripe with this bike: I wish the gearing was lower (I do live in a hilly area). So long as I'm not carrying too much it's just about adequate, but more than 5kg and any significant climbs become a bit of a grind...
Speed run:
Had to go 15km into town yesterday evening for an event (basically unloaded), was feeling energetic so put my foot down (repeatedly teehee) to see what happened, Result: it was fun. On the way is mostly gentle downhill so I did it in about 40mins, gentle uphill on the way home (obviously) but I was still feeling good so hammered it in 45mins. Again bike handled it great. So: gearing is all good at the top end, and bike rides fine without a load.
Overall:
The PR is fun to ride both loaded and unloaded. Not the lightest speediest bike ever built of course, and probably not the best heavy tourer either, but as a middle way that does both speed and carrying stuff adequately (it's currently my only bike, tho N+1 is beckoning...probably a fatbike for offroad fun and adventures) I'm loving this bike. But I do wish the low-end gears were lower, might well switch to a bigger cassette...
a few years ago I posted asking about bikes and eventually settled on a pack rat but eventually didn't buy it, but a couple of months ago I finally did - it's been discontinued but my LBS (in Japan)'s supplier had a 2018 model (big rack, racing green!) in my size so I got (as it turns out: very) lucky.
I ended up posting this review on the surly site a few days ago, I thought I'd also share it here:
It seems the PR is discontinued - I want to offer my thoughts in case Surly ever decide to revisit this awesome bike.
IMHO this is a near-perfect utility bicycle - it's simple (rim brakes), capable of distance (road-sized wheels), a bit lively and fun (ie it's not the LHT) durable (surly steel), and utilitarian (the front rack and geometry work brilliantly).
This last is key: a utility bike needs to carry stuff, and in my experience a front basket is by far the best way to do this - with panniers you have to divide your luggage between them, and rear weight (even in a basket) is always hard to control. Whereas a front basket you can throw your bag in with zero thought, easily control the weight with your arms, AND can see (and reach) your luggage easily. And the PR geometry means no steering issues - I've carried nearly 10kg on mine with no effect on steering, which is awesome.
But the PR being discontinued implies it's not selling well...why not? Here's my guess:
I have seen a lot of internet bike people are saying they don't really see the point of the PR (and questioning rim brakes!). But ...I think these are probably bike connoisseurs (the kind of people who hang out on internet bike forums!...and who often spend 3K on a really great bike!). Compared to those, the Pack Rat is undoubtedly lacking.
But that's simply not the right market for the PR: it's an EVERYONE UTILITY bike: simple, reliable, capable, durable, a bit fun, and able to carry stuff. But yes, not the lightest and definitely not the best spec...but for me that's fine.
But definitely 4 not 5 stars - minus one star because it's somewhat overpriced for "utilitarian". IMHO if the price was sub-1K (same as cross-check) (maybe by embracing utilitarian: friction shifters! square taper bottom bracket?? Make a bike that can survive the collapse of civilisation!) and marketed it as such, then I think the PR might have a future: as a "standard bicycle" that people own because it gets the job (mid distance utilitarian + a little fun) done with no fuss. Kind of "your grandad's bike" (but perhaps a little sturdier: esp that front rack). I think this is a great bike for utilitarian/commuting usage - I'm loving mine. It's fun utilitarian tho: I also ride it quite a bit just for fun.
Just my tuppence worth, of course, I'm super happy to have snared a PR before it was discontinued and wanted to share my thoughts in case anyone on here is ever looking at the PR (used, or maybe there are some still around)
happy riding everybody
UPDATE:
I've been putting the bike through it's paces this week: I went camping for a couple of nights (first time bikepacking) and I also did what turned out to be quite a speed run (the mood just took me) last night, so I thought I'd comment on those two.
TLDR: front loading works great, and speedy runs work great too, but gearing isn't low enough for significant climbs with a load.
Camping:
First time bikepacking so I don't really have lightweight equipment so worked with what I had, total of about 15kg(!), 10kg on the front basket (5kg in a saddlebag), and I can confirm that it does exactly what Surly said it would: steering is not even slightly affected by the front load - no-handed was a bit optimistic (but doable for a second or two) but one-fingered steering was easy. I also enjoyed being able to control the load with my arms (I've done heavy loads on the back before, I much prefer it up front). On the journey home (50km, 2.5hours) I picked up the pace and no real problems, bike was still easy to handle.
That said, I committed a navigation error and ended up climbing a mountain, and the gearing wasn't adequate: I ended up pushing quite a bit (anything approaching 10% i think). If I was going to tour mountains regularly I'd definitely either switch to a mountain drivetrain or (more likely) get a second bike that's more suitable. Overall that's my one gripe with this bike: I wish the gearing was lower (I do live in a hilly area). So long as I'm not carrying too much it's just about adequate, but more than 5kg and any significant climbs become a bit of a grind...
Speed run:
Had to go 15km into town yesterday evening for an event (basically unloaded), was feeling energetic so put my foot down (repeatedly teehee) to see what happened, Result: it was fun. On the way is mostly gentle downhill so I did it in about 40mins, gentle uphill on the way home (obviously) but I was still feeling good so hammered it in 45mins. Again bike handled it great. So: gearing is all good at the top end, and bike rides fine without a load.
Overall:
The PR is fun to ride both loaded and unloaded. Not the lightest speediest bike ever built of course, and probably not the best heavy tourer either, but as a middle way that does both speed and carrying stuff adequately (it's currently my only bike, tho N+1 is beckoning...probably a fatbike for offroad fun and adventures) I'm loving this bike. But I do wish the low-end gears were lower, might well switch to a bigger cassette...
Last edited by eggnoggbubble; 09-24-21 at 09:07 PM.
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09-03-21, 09:17 PM
#2
Member
Nice Rat! It was certainly a niche bicycle but it fulfills its purpose well.
I put a cycle truck fork and rack on my Rat and built it frame up. Like eggnoggbubble, I picked the Rat because it isn't quite as "dead" in steering like some other touring frames (ie: LHT) but still provides a stable ride under load. Can't comment on the ride when it's unloaded as the whole retrofit weighs about 12lbs on its own. I use to primarily haul my dog around and very infrequently, the groceries.
Surly PR Cycle truck
I put a cycle truck fork and rack on my Rat and built it frame up. Like eggnoggbubble, I picked the Rat because it isn't quite as "dead" in steering like some other touring frames (ie: LHT) but still provides a stable ride under load. Can't comment on the ride when it's unloaded as the whole retrofit weighs about 12lbs on its own. I use to primarily haul my dog around and very infrequently, the groceries.
Surly PR Cycle truck
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09-03-21, 09:57 PM
#3
Junior Member
Thread Starter
that's awesome, if i wanted to carry more than my PR front basket could handle that fixed front basket over a 20inch wheel is definitely the way I'd go, I had that arrangement on my Bike Friday Haul-a-day and it was awesome, so useful I rarely used the back (once my kids had outgrown riding on it). Which is one of the experiences that pushed me toward the front-basket pack rat...
09-04-21, 05:48 AM
#4
Member
that's awesome, if i wanted to carry more than my PR front basket could handle that fixed front basket over a 20inch wheel is definitely the way I'd go, I had that arrangement on my Bike Friday Haul-a-day and it was awesome, so useful I rarely used the back (once my kids had outgrown riding on it). Which is one of the experiences that pushed me toward the front-basket pack rat...
) with the stock fork. The small wheel is nice because drops the rack about . . . Well 6 inches. Is it really drastically different riding unloaded?
09-05-21, 09:04 PM
#5
Member
09-07-21, 03:21 PM
#6
Happy banana slug
Join Date: Sep 2015
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Dangit, stop that! I have a nice commuter! I don't need another one; what I need is a nice step through (I say 'need'...). It annoys me they have it in my size and the pretty, pretty green.
(Love your bike, BTW; well done!)
(Love your bike, BTW; well done!)
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09-09-21, 06:13 PM
#7
Junior Member
Thread Starter
stack of spacers...yeah aesthetically not ideal but I wanted to try higher bars before I went lower, and I've been happy enough so haven't tried lower...practicalities over aesthetics....you're correct it does also have the useful function of leaving more room for luggage.
handlebars: no idea, whatever came stock on the 2018 PR
korina: sorry!
interestingly green was the only color available, most people went with black it seems, tho I love the color, feels really retro...
handlebars: no idea, whatever came stock on the 2018 PR
korina: sorry!
interestingly green was the only color available, most people went with black it seems, tho I love the color, feels really retro...
09-09-21, 10:05 PM
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,173
Bikes: Surly Disk Trucker, 2014 w/Brooks Flyer Special saddle, Tubus racks - Duo front/Logo Evo rear, 2019 Dahon Mariner D8, Both bikes share Ortlieb Packer Plus series panniers, Garmin Edge 1000
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stack of spacers...yeah aesthetically not ideal but I wanted to try higher bars before I went lower, and I've been happy enough so haven't tried lower...practicalities over aesthetics....you're correct it does also have the useful function of leaving more room for luggage.
A riding buddy that has an older model LHT than mine did this with his - and when he got his bike the shop cut the fork tube where they sized up the bike for him. So he did not have the height there to really work with. When I got mine I went in to the purchase with this in mind so I had the bike shop purposely leave the fork tube nice and all. I added the 2nd stem about 3 years after and I have to say it really works well.
Pictures from a trip I did last Nov ('20).
For what it is worth - I prefer to carry any noticeable weight as low as I can get it. A lot of weight all on the rear, even down low, causes handling problems. So it is best to balance that with weight in the front. I have flipped this bike over with no panniers in the front and all the weight on the back going up a steep hill also... Not enough weight in the front to keep it down.
You can't see the right side very well, but there is a bell on the dummy bar. Putting things down there (like my handlebar bag and bell) keeps the handlebar more clear for my hands. I have circulation issues in my hands and being able to move my hands around to different positions is a necessity. I will move all over the bars all day long to keep my hands working.
I cut the dummy bar so it stuck out on the left side. When I first got the mirror and set things up I didn't have it wide enough. The first trip I did with the mirror and gear I realized I didn't have it out far enough to be of much use - the view was blocked by the gear. So I experimented with lengths and got it where it worked.
In any event, just ideas to toss around. I love the custom configurations on your pack rats. That is one of the more fun things with cycling - getting rides that actually do stuff, however unconventional it may be. That is in most cases quite opposite of the fast n' light road racers out there. Some of us do a lot more with our rides than just get from point A to point B quickly.
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09-10-21, 12:39 AM
#9
Junior Member
Thread Starter
wow, nice setup, cool idea with the mirror. And that's quite a load, respect...my gear carrying is a lot less so as of now the front has proved adequate, haven't tried it camping yet tho...
Agreed on getting the weight down as low as possible, I had a Yuba Mundo for carrying my kids but they were up high, great bike but needed the kids over a 20inch wheel...which I accomplished with a Bike Friday haul-a-day, tho that wasn't nearly as stiff, too noodly with two kids tho it worked great with one.
Agreed on getting the weight down as low as possible, I had a Yuba Mundo for carrying my kids but they were up high, great bike but needed the kids over a 20inch wheel...which I accomplished with a Bike Friday haul-a-day, tho that wasn't nearly as stiff, too noodly with two kids tho it worked great with one.
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09-24-21, 09:09 PM
#10
Junior Member
Thread Starter
hey, this is a quick bump because I added an update to my review, been both camping and unloaded sprinting this week, thought I'd add that experience to my review....
