Advice on improving brake performance?
#1
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Advice on improving brake performance?
I have a new Poseidon X gravel bike. It’s currently slated to get compressionless housing to improve the performance of the tektro mech brakes.
I was wondering whether or not it’s significant to replace the section of cable under the bar tape?
and also would it be better to just upgrade the rotor size from 160->180? Both of these options seem like good bang/buck upgrades.
I mostly ride pavement and flat gravel/smooth mtb trails. I’m also a bigger guy (250lbs) which makes brake performance more important I assume.
I was wondering whether or not it’s significant to replace the section of cable under the bar tape?
and also would it be better to just upgrade the rotor size from 160->180? Both of these options seem like good bang/buck upgrades.
I mostly ride pavement and flat gravel/smooth mtb trails. I’m also a bigger guy (250lbs) which makes brake performance more important I assume.
#2
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Can you fit larger rotors? If these are flat mount calipers, I believe 160mm is the largest they will accept. As to compressionless brake housing, yes it will improve braking and I would replace all of the older housing with it. If you remove the bar tape carefully you should be able to reuse it after the housing change.
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Agree with HillRider. Compressionless brake housing is an amazing upgrade. It significantly improved the responsiveness of my road bike brakes.
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Absolutely replace all housing with compression less. It makes no sense to replace only some of the housing. I do not know what Tektro calipers you have, but it is quite likely that 180 rotors will not fit. Maybe someone will chime in with that info, but you should be able to find that with a google search.
#5
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Right. Thank you guys. Spoke to the LBS and they echoed y’all’s advice. Will definitely replace the entirety of the housing.
If that doesn’t give me the braking power I need, I’ll see if upsizing rotors is possible. I suspect it’ll be plenty of power for my riding style though.
thank you all!
If that doesn’t give me the braking power I need, I’ll see if upsizing rotors is possible. I suspect it’ll be plenty of power for my riding style though.
thank you all!
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Like I say every time, get good cables and housing ideally Jagwire Elite or Pro. get good pads ideally SwissStop or KoolStop and in your case good rotors (Shimano Ice Tech, Magura...)since they are disc brakes. If you have the ability to fit larger rotors certainly go for it but don't exceed spec of the frame and know you might need an adaptor. If you find the braking still poorer you might consider good hydraulic disc brakes.
#7
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Compressionless won't really raise your brake power. But it'll make the feel at the levers a lot nicer. As in firmer with very little give as you squeeze harder.
Since you're using cable brakes I'll assume that the caliper itself has one fixed (but adjustable) and one movable pad. When I was using cable discs I found that stopping power was raised strongly when the fixed but adjustable pad was set up to run as close as possible to the rotor. This means fairly frequent tuning but it makes a huge difference. When set up really nicely you can get almost hydro brake like power from your braking effort.
The why of it is that when the fixed pad is running too far away the movable pad has to use up some power just to flex the rotor over to pinch it against the fixed pad. And when it flexes like that it only touches on the outer edge while the movable pad only touches on the inner edge. Then as you squeeze harder you flex the rotor more and more until it's has an "S" bend in it with the pads in full contact. But it takes a fair bit of your effort to do that flexing. And that's effort which isn't going towards stopping. So the closer you can get the fixed pad to the rotor the less power needed to let the rotor flex to full contact.
If all this sounds like a lot of fussing with the brakes? Yep, it is. But after a few times and some initial tuning to tweak the rotor so it runs super true it's pretty quick to do.
And when you match up a nicely set caliper AND the compressionless housing you'll really smile at how well the brakes do work.
Since you're using cable brakes I'll assume that the caliper itself has one fixed (but adjustable) and one movable pad. When I was using cable discs I found that stopping power was raised strongly when the fixed but adjustable pad was set up to run as close as possible to the rotor. This means fairly frequent tuning but it makes a huge difference. When set up really nicely you can get almost hydro brake like power from your braking effort.
The why of it is that when the fixed pad is running too far away the movable pad has to use up some power just to flex the rotor over to pinch it against the fixed pad. And when it flexes like that it only touches on the outer edge while the movable pad only touches on the inner edge. Then as you squeeze harder you flex the rotor more and more until it's has an "S" bend in it with the pads in full contact. But it takes a fair bit of your effort to do that flexing. And that's effort which isn't going towards stopping. So the closer you can get the fixed pad to the rotor the less power needed to let the rotor flex to full contact.
If all this sounds like a lot of fussing with the brakes? Yep, it is. But after a few times and some initial tuning to tweak the rotor so it runs super true it's pretty quick to do.
And when you match up a nicely set caliper AND the compressionless housing you'll really smile at how well the brakes do work.
#8
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Thread Starter
Compressionless won't really raise your brake power. But it'll make the feel at the levers a lot nicer. As in firmer with very little give as you squeeze harder.
Since you're using cable brakes I'll assume that the caliper itself has one fixed (but adjustable) and one movable pad. When I was using cable discs I found that stopping power was raised strongly when the fixed but adjustable pad was set up to run as close as possible to the rotor. This means fairly frequent tuning but it makes a huge difference. When set up really nicely you can get almost hydro brake like power from your braking effort.
The why of it is that when the fixed pad is running too far away the movable pad has to use up some power just to flex the rotor over to pinch it against the fixed pad. And when it flexes like that it only touches on the outer edge while the movable pad only touches on the inner edge. Then as you squeeze harder you flex the rotor more and more until it's has an "S" bend in it with the pads in full contact. But it takes a fair bit of your effort to do that flexing. And that's effort which isn't going towards stopping. So the closer you can get the fixed pad to the rotor the less power needed to let the rotor flex to full contact.
If all this sounds like a lot of fussing with the brakes? Yep, it is. But after a few times and some initial tuning to tweak the rotor so it runs super true it's pretty quick to do.
And when you match up a nicely set caliper AND the compressionless housing you'll really smile at how well the brakes do work.
Since you're using cable brakes I'll assume that the caliper itself has one fixed (but adjustable) and one movable pad. When I was using cable discs I found that stopping power was raised strongly when the fixed but adjustable pad was set up to run as close as possible to the rotor. This means fairly frequent tuning but it makes a huge difference. When set up really nicely you can get almost hydro brake like power from your braking effort.
The why of it is that when the fixed pad is running too far away the movable pad has to use up some power just to flex the rotor over to pinch it against the fixed pad. And when it flexes like that it only touches on the outer edge while the movable pad only touches on the inner edge. Then as you squeeze harder you flex the rotor more and more until it's has an "S" bend in it with the pads in full contact. But it takes a fair bit of your effort to do that flexing. And that's effort which isn't going towards stopping. So the closer you can get the fixed pad to the rotor the less power needed to let the rotor flex to full contact.
If all this sounds like a lot of fussing with the brakes? Yep, it is. But after a few times and some initial tuning to tweak the rotor so it runs super true it's pretty quick to do.
And when you match up a nicely set caliper AND the compressionless housing you'll really smile at how well the brakes do work.
#9
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If you haven't already, you'll also get more absolute power with metallic compound pads than resin, at the expense of possibly more noise and less progressive modulation.
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Do you clean the pads and rotors as part of normal maintenance?
If not the pads get covered in dust, etc. which reduces performance.
I spray a water/alcohol mix on a clean cloth, folded in half, and draw the damp, folded cloth back and forth between the pads. I repeat until the cloth is clean after running between the pads. I do the same to the rotors.
I do this every couple of weeks or so when performing normal maintenance...cleaning and lubing chain, etc.
If not the pads get covered in dust, etc. which reduces performance.
I spray a water/alcohol mix on a clean cloth, folded in half, and draw the damp, folded cloth back and forth between the pads. I repeat until the cloth is clean after running between the pads. I do the same to the rotors.
I do this every couple of weeks or so when performing normal maintenance...cleaning and lubing chain, etc.
#11
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....you're using cable brakes I'll assume that the caliper itself has one fixed (but adjustable) and one movable pad. When I was using cable discs I found that stopping power was raised strongly when the fixed but adjustable pad was set up to run as close as possible to the rotor. This means fairly frequent tuning but it makes a huge difference. When set up really nicely you can get almost hydro brake like power from your braking effort.
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#12
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Thread Starter
That's correct but the improvement in feel and a solid, firm lever make it well worth the slight extra cost.
The OP is using Tektro mechanicals which, I believe, are like my TRP Spyres. These have clearance adjustments for both pads and both move equally when the brakes are applied. That makes setting them up symmetrically quite easy and frequent adjustments aren't necessary.
The OP is using Tektro mechanicals which, I believe, are like my TRP Spyres. These have clearance adjustments for both pads and both move equally when the brakes are applied. That makes setting them up symmetrically quite easy and frequent adjustments aren't necessary.
#13
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Thread Starter
Do you clean the pads and rotors as part of normal maintenance?
If not the pads get covered in dust, etc. which reduces performance.
I spray a water/alcohol mix on a clean cloth, folded in half, and draw the damp, folded cloth back and forth between the pads. I repeat until the cloth is clean after running between the pads. I do the same to the rotors.
I do this every couple of weeks or so when performing normal maintenance...cleaning and lubing chain, etc.
If not the pads get covered in dust, etc. which reduces performance.
I spray a water/alcohol mix on a clean cloth, folded in half, and draw the damp, folded cloth back and forth between the pads. I repeat until the cloth is clean after running between the pads. I do the same to the rotors.
I do this every couple of weeks or so when performing normal maintenance...cleaning and lubing chain, etc.
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You should not be lubing your chain after every ride. Excess chain lubing promotes accumulation of road grit, which works its way into the chain innards, promoting wear. If you want to do something to your chain after rides, wipe the chain with a clean cloth or equivalent to remove surface grit and excess oil.
#15
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Go ride some old bikes with single pivot brakes and chromed steel rims. Then you'll have a better appreciation for just how good your current brakes really are.
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It really depends on a variety of things including ride surface...dusty, dirty, wet, etc...means likely more often than normal.
I clean and lube my chain every two weeks...I ride approx 200+ miles per week.
It is as important to clean your chain as it is to lube it.
Just search YouTube for tons of videos on how to clean and lube, as well as general maintenance, for a bike.
Good luck
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In addition to the compressionless housing you can also upgrade the calipers to cable actuated hydraulic like Juin Tech F1.
I upgraded TRP Spyres to Juin Tech R1 (R1 for IS/post mount, you will need F1 for flat mount for your bike), the difference is huge.
There was a recent video on cable actuated disc brakes:
Yokozuna Motoko that he mentions is a rebrand of Juin Tech.
There is also Yokozuna Ultimo/Juin Tech GT-F, but it is twice the price of Juin Tech F1.
I upgraded TRP Spyres to Juin Tech R1 (R1 for IS/post mount, you will need F1 for flat mount for your bike), the difference is huge.
There was a recent video on cable actuated disc brakes:
There is also Yokozuna Ultimo/Juin Tech GT-F, but it is twice the price of Juin Tech F1.
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Interesting video. Of course, he only evaluated the brakes he actually owns and has used, but there are two obvious omissions, TRP Spyres and TRP HY/RD cable/hydraulic.
I'm pleased with my Spyres. They aren't "power brakes" as hydraulics are sometimes described but they work well, are quiet and require no more hand effort than good double pivot calipers with Kool Stop Salmon pads.
I'm pleased with my Spyres. They aren't "power brakes" as hydraulics are sometimes described but they work well, are quiet and require no more hand effort than good double pivot calipers with Kool Stop Salmon pads.
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Those are cheap brakes with one pad moving. Nothing will help as much as getting TRP cable Spyres on one wheel at least. Doing both will be 1/3 the cost of that bike. I have one on my Rohloff14 IGH. It stops instantly any time, can't beat that. IMO, resin pads are the reason it grabs tight so well. It has 4,600 miles so far, ZERO squeaks. My front wheel is an awesome SA dyno DRUM brake, done 28,000 miles. Finicky hydro is NOT needed.
#20
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Those are cheap brakes with one pad moving. Nothing will help as much as getting TRP cable Spyres on one wheel at least. Doing both will be 1/3 the cost of that bike. I have one on my Rohloff14 IGH. It stops instantly any time, can't beat that. IMO, resin pads are the reason it grabs tight so well. It has 4,600 miles so far, ZERO squeaks. My front wheel is an awesome SA dyno DRUM brake, done 28,000 miles. Finicky hydro is NOT needed.
#22
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I don't know if "finicky" is the right term but based on the number of threads here reporting problems with hydraulic brakes set-up, installation and maintenance difficulties, it's clear they aren't all that straightforward. It's like electronic shifting, they are great when they work right but frustrating when they don't and more expensive in any case.
#23
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Thread Starter
NO !
It really depends on a variety of things including ride surface...dusty, dirty, wet, etc...means likely more often than normal.
I clean and lube my chain every two weeks...I ride approx 200+ miles per week.
It is as important to clean your chain as it is to lube it.
Just search YouTube for tons of videos on how to clean and lube, as well as general maintenance, for a bike.
Good luck
It really depends on a variety of things including ride surface...dusty, dirty, wet, etc...means likely more often than normal.
I clean and lube my chain every two weeks...I ride approx 200+ miles per week.
It is as important to clean your chain as it is to lube it.
Just search YouTube for tons of videos on how to clean and lube, as well as general maintenance, for a bike.
Good luck
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Interesting video. Of course, he only evaluated the brakes he actually owns and has used, but there are two obvious omissions, TRP Spyres and TRP HY/RD cable/hydraulic.
I'm pleased with my Spyres. They aren't "power brakes" as hydraulics are sometimes described but they work well, are quiet and require no more hand effort than good double pivot calipers with Kool Stop Salmon pads.
I'm pleased with my Spyres. They aren't "power brakes" as hydraulics are sometimes described but they work well, are quiet and require no more hand effort than good double pivot calipers with Kool Stop Salmon pads.
My experiences after the upgrade: definitely worth it, https://www.bikeforums.net/22150966-post50.html
The OP also has QR wheels, hydraulic system will better adjust to it. If the wheel is slightly off one of the pistons will just extend further.
I went with Juin Tech instead of the HY/RD because of the shorter level throw.
Of course there is price difference, a pair of MD-C550's will be $90-100 and Juin Tech F1's are $170-200 for a pair.
#25
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I'll never understand how people have so many problems with hydraulic dics brakes. I've never had an issue in over a decade of using them.
Now on to the point. Cable discs can be plenty powerful!. Everyone mentioned the housing which is upgrade one IMO, Next is pads. I don't care what anyone says, resin pads are crap ESPECIALLY OEM fitted on lower cost brakes. Now i'm hoping there was no realization that you cant get a metallic pad for your caliper that i missed in this thread. Assuming not, get metallic pads. I've ran cheap rotors and XTR rotors, aside from weight I don't notice a difference, probably would on an extended downhill where the heat dissipation can really come into play. If that's something you intend to encounter then by all means get fancy rotors. Bigger is better with rotors. but keep it within reason, again based on descending time,
Now on to the point. Cable discs can be plenty powerful!. Everyone mentioned the housing which is upgrade one IMO, Next is pads. I don't care what anyone says, resin pads are crap ESPECIALLY OEM fitted on lower cost brakes. Now i'm hoping there was no realization that you cant get a metallic pad for your caliper that i missed in this thread. Assuming not, get metallic pads. I've ran cheap rotors and XTR rotors, aside from weight I don't notice a difference, probably would on an extended downhill where the heat dissipation can really come into play. If that's something you intend to encounter then by all means get fancy rotors. Bigger is better with rotors. but keep it within reason, again based on descending time,