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Has anyone used "zero-length" MTB stem?

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Has anyone used "zero-length" MTB stem?

Old 03-10-22, 07:30 AM
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qwaalodge
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Has anyone used "zero-length" MTB stem?

I've always bought the right frame size for me but always found myself too stretched. Getting an under-sized frame is not an option. I hate toe strikes and don't want lower stack. Adjusting the fore and aft saddle position is also not option because mine is already dialed in perfectly for best comfort.

I already replaced the 110mm stem with 80mm stem still wanting to have shorter stem. I've been testing different hand positions on the dropbar to see how short I need to get to feel just right and not overstretched and found I need the shortest stem available - the zero length stems for MTB.

But how does these stems feel on a road bike? Would it make the bike feel quite twitchy? Would I adapt quickly to the difference in handling? Is it safe?
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Old 03-10-22, 09:21 AM
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How does lower stack give you toe strikes? A larger frame will typically have longer cranks so that will give you more chance for toe strikes regardless of stack height.

Get the stem and try it out. When I went from a 100 mm stem to a 70 mm stem the first ride out was a twitchy experience, especially when getting to places where crosswinds grabbed my wheel. But you get used to it and learn to compensate and then it's no more worse or bad for you. However I never did feel the same confidence on downhill twisty roads until a few months later when my narrower handlebars came in. As soon as I put them on, it seemed that I had better feed back and control for those downhill twisty roads.

None of that was anything massively annoying and nothing to any unsafe degree. But you will notice something and it will take some time for you to simply get use to that new feedback you are getting.

edit...

Oh, toe strikes....... do you mean toe interference? Toe strikes are what happen with the pavement. At least to me they are.

Last edited by Iride01; 03-10-22 at 09:24 AM.
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Old 03-10-22, 09:57 AM
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If you pedal standing very often, knee strikes on the bars will be annoying and perhaps dangerous. I'd be hitting the bars, even with an 80mm stem. I use 80mm reach bars to keep the total reach down. Some new bike come with 100mm reach bars.
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Old 03-10-22, 02:17 PM
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If by "toe strikes" you mean toe overlap, it should really be a non-issue except at super low speeds when awareness of the possibility should suffice. All my bikes have toe overlap.

Using a zero length stem to compensate for the wrong size bike may be a necessary evil, but I recommend you find another way.
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Old 03-10-22, 02:30 PM
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MTB's have really long handlebars coming off of those stems. Road bikes typically do not. Road bike length is wherever you're grabbing the bar then drawing a line from there to the center of the steerer. So a shorter stem will decrease that effective length for steering.

Almost all road bikes have toe overlap, you're going that slow and tight learn to keep the feet there and coast OR just tap the cranks up and down without going all the way around when making the u-turn.
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Old 03-10-22, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by qwaalodge
I've always bought the right frame size for me but always found myself too stretched. Getting an under-sized frame is not an option. I hate toe strikes and don't want lower stack. Adjusting the fore and aft saddle position is also not option because mine is already dialed in perfectly for best comfort.

I already replaced the 110mm stem with 80mm stem still wanting to have shorter stem. I've been testing different hand positions on the dropbar to see how short I need to get to feel just right and not overstretched and found I need the shortest stem available - the zero length stems for MTB.

But how does these stems feel on a road bike? Would it make the bike feel quite twitchy? Would I adapt quickly to the difference in handling? Is it safe?
1- If you always buy the right size frame, then you wont always find yourself too stretched out. Sucks to hear, but its reality.
2- Buy a 60mm stem if you need something shorter. Or buy one that is 35deg too which will bring the bars up and also not as far out since its 60mm in length and not 60mm beyond the steerer.
3- Look into short reach handlebars. Specialized brand short reach bars are 65mm of reach, for example. This will bring the brake levers towards you a bit.

A 60mm stem on a road bike is perfectly safe. And yeah, you can adjust to it. Nothing will break due to that change. It will help demonstrate that the frame is actually not well fit for you though. Perhaps a frame with different geometry would be best. What do you ride right now?
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Old 03-10-22, 04:14 PM
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I've went from stock 100mm to the shortest available (40mm quill stem) on a road bike before.

Learn from my trial and experimentation.

Buy a bike designed for a more upright riding position.
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Old 03-10-22, 05:44 PM
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What do you mean by you always bought the right size frame for you?

According to height tables? Because these mean nothing if you have short legs, long torso / long legs, short torso / varying degrees of hip flexibility and so forth.

And yes, the seat has all to do with your position over the pedals and should not be adjusted to compensate reach.

I would take your current setup to a bike fitter and see what comes of it, instead of messing too much with the bike's geometry and intended handling. You may end up requiring a shorter top tube frame and fine tune with the right stem.

Also, toe overlap is an absolute non-issue in reality and you learn fast (twice as fast with white shoes).

Edit: I would like to add that I initially purchased a frame size too large based on height tables/sales person juidgement and since swapped the bike for a smaller size with a longer, steeper down angled and slammed stem after a bike fit based on short legs / long torso and plenty of hip flex. You sound like you're the opposite of me so you may end up with a smaller frame, seat jacked higher, and a bunch of spacers to keep your stack height up. Whilst you likely won't be as lucky as I was in terms of how mean your fitted bike ends up looking, it will be more than worth it on the road.

Last edited by yaw; 03-10-22 at 05:48 PM.
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Old 03-10-22, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by yaw
What do you mean by you always bought the right size frame for you?

According to height tables? Because these mean nothing if you have short legs, long torso / long legs, short torso / varying degrees of hip flexibility and so forth.
For the sake of argument if I bought the "right frame size" that is I'm not over-reaching, the bike would feel too low due to stack and I'll have issues with toe overlap. The bikes I bought over the years always came with 170mm crank which is correctly sized for me and I'm comfortable with.

I ride mostly in the city in busy streets often in rush hour traffic so I have to make slow sharp turns around cars that are not moving. I already have toe overlap in my correct height-size bike and don't want to make it worse. I already "pump" the pedals to move around cars without having toe strike. But sometimes, it's unavoidable to try to turn the pedals whole way around when there's gradient involved. I can actually manage that by placing my feet all the way back against the flat pedals. Doesn't always work though especially in frequent stop and go situations like in heavy rush hour traffic.
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Old 03-10-22, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by qwaalodge
For the sake of argument if I bought the "right frame size" that is I'm not over-reaching, the bike would feel too low due to stack and I'll have issues with toe overlap. The bikes I bought over the years always came with 170mm crank which is correctly sized for me and I'm comfortable with.
What now? Bike have varying geometey- not all bikes in the same size will have the same stack and reach.

The Specialized Diverge, Roubaix, and Tarmac are all drop bar bikes from Specialized and all have different geometry.
In the Size 54...
- Diverge has 578mm of stack and 383mm of reach
- Roubaix has 585mm of stack and 376mm of reach
- Tarmac has 544mm of stack and 384mm of reach

You still haven't given details on you or your bike- measurements and geometey/size and model.
If you have some goofy geometey fixie, then maybe it doesn't fit, as has been suggested.
If you have arms that are short due to a medical issue or back flexibility issues AND your bike actually does have a tall stack with short reach, then maybe a super short stem plus short reach bars(suggested earlier) is all you can do, unless you want to go custom.
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Old 03-11-22, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
What now? Bike have varying geometey- not all bikes in the same size will have the same stack and reach.

The Specialized Diverge, Roubaix, and Tarmac are all drop bar bikes from Specialized and all have different geometry.
In the Size 54...
- Diverge has 578mm of stack and 383mm of reach
- Roubaix has 585mm of stack and 376mm of reach
- Tarmac has 544mm of stack and 384mm of reach

You still haven't given details on you or your bike- measurements and geometey/size and model.
If you have some goofy geometey fixie, then maybe it doesn't fit, as has been suggested.
If you have arms that are short due to a medical issue or back flexibility issues AND your bike actually does have a tall stack with short reach, then maybe a super short stem plus short reach bars(suggested earlier) is all you can do, unless you want to go custom.
Everything else is OK. The only thing I didn't like is toe overlap. I didn't have this problem on a MTB.
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Old 03-11-22, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Moisture
I've went from stock 100mm to the shortest available (40mm quill stem) on a road bike before.

Learn from my trial and experimentation.

Buy a bike designed for a more upright riding position.
I already like the stack height in my bike. Just right. Doesn't give me problems in long rides. I would know if there is a problem because I'll have numb hands and sometimes sore lower back.

I only feel over reaching in my current setup. Just don't want smaller frame due to toe overlap if I keep using 170mm crank. It doesn't seem like anyone's using very short 40mm stem so I guess I should give it a try and have already placed order for one.
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Old 03-11-22, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by qwaalodge
Everything else is OK. The only thing I didn't like is toe overlap. I didn't have this problem on a MTB.
How you are getting toe overlap so frequently?...again, post your info and your specific bike. It is some goofy geometry or something?
Smaller bikes have a higher chance of toe overlap, but even on my kids' road bikes, it just isnt an issue in practice because you cant turn the wheel enough to make it an issue and not crash.

Again, you say your bike fits perfectly, yet you started a thread asking about a 0 length stem. That just doesnt jive.
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Old 03-11-22, 02:43 PM
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Have you tried a different geometry? Different fork rack and head tube angle geometry? My cyclecross bike gives me a lot more room than my "climber" road bike or my old track bike. Have you tried shorter cranks (and no there's no representative size based on height and in the long run it doesn't matter much). What's your height? Shorter people have very limited options with respect to toe overlap other than to learn the limits. Back to the question:
  • But how does these stems feel on a road bike? Would it make the bike feel quite twitchy?
Based on my experience with 90mm stock stem and replacing it with prefer 110mm stem, yes the shorter stem was twitchier. It's subjective.
  • Would I adapt quickly to the difference in handling?
Since you are asking the question, no, yes, maybe. You need to test it to answer the question.
  • Is it safe?
Depends on your handling skill and your calculus on risk aversion. If you have their skills, the answer is like a yes.
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Old 03-11-22, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
How you are getting toe overlap so frequently?...again, post your info and your specific bike. It is some goofy geometry or something?
Smaller bikes have a higher chance of toe overlap, but even on my kids' road bikes, it just isnt an issue in practice because you cant turn the wheel enough to make it an issue and not crash.

Again, you say your bike fits perfectly, yet you started a thread asking about a 0 length stem. That just doesnt jive.
I did have full fenders on my road bike, including a full front fender being used mainly as city commuter. It makes me a bit more particular when it comes to toe overlap.

Whenever I get toe strike, I always hit the front fender. It wouldn't be a problem there was no fenders but I need having fenders on all the time. It rains frequently enough where I live, all year long.

So I purchased the bike for the bit longer reach for reduced toe overlap, correct seatube size but I feel a bit stretched. I'm already using short-reach compact dropbar. The stretch is particularly felt on the shoulder. It doesn't get sore but the feeling gets in the way of trying to maximize efficiency. Maybe I'm just OCD about it. Fortunately, the 40mm stem was dirt cheap. I'll tell how it goes. My initial worry is the handling becoming twitchy so I'll give it a go for a month give or take.
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Old 03-11-22, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by kcjc
Since you are asking the question, no, yes, maybe. You need to test it to answer the question.
  • Is it safe?
Depends on your handling skill and your calculus on risk aversion. If you have their skills, the answer is like a yes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUiiJI_tPVk
Haha, okay.

I used to commute on a BMX with the handlebar set to the most upright position (zero stem length). It didn't feel twitchy at the time. But when I go back to that BMX, I can't ride on it anymore! I just need some practice maybe?
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Old 03-12-22, 05:05 AM
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does zero length exist? There's usually some number associated with it
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Old 03-12-22, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by ussprinceton
does zero length exist? There's usually some number associated with it

They do and are used on downhill bikes. Certain companies tried to push them with REALLY long top tubes but things seem to have settled on 40-60 mm stems.

Stem length and bar width are related. The shorter the stem, the wider the bar. Not sure I would want a 40mm stem on a 42 cm wide road bar.
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Old 03-12-22, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by ussprinceton
does zero length exist? There's usually some number associated with it
You can even have negative length. Put stem on backwards. It might affect handling.
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Old 03-12-22, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by ussprinceton
does zero length exist? There's usually some number associated with it
Sorry, it's actually 32mm length. I just cancelled my previous order of 40mm stem and re-ordered a 32mm stem. It's the shortest stem possible on a road bike threadless headset, I think. The handlebar and the steerer tube seems almost touching together with the 32mm stem.
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Old 03-12-22, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by datlas
You can even have negative length. Put stem on backwards. It might affect handling.
I might try that on the 32mm stem if I'm still feeling over stretched especially when my hands are at the hoods. The hoods are quite comfortable but because I feel a bit stretched, I spend more time riding at the drops.

Yes, I'm worried it will affect handling so I'll give it a month to get comfortable with the changes in handling. I won't be doing anything crazy, no high speed descents..

Hopefully the problem gets solve without going negative stem because I bet the negative stem will look horrendously goofy in a bad way.
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Old 03-12-22, 08:01 AM
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something like this?

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Old 03-12-22, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by ussprinceton
does zero length exist? There's usually some number associated with it
https://analogcycles.com/collections...s-creemee-stem
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Old 03-12-22, 10:39 AM
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are your arms that short?
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Old 03-12-22, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by ussprinceton
are your arms that short?

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