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Interest in C&V bicycles rising or waning (or stable)?

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Interest in C&V bicycles rising or waning (or stable)?

Old 09-19-22, 12:15 PM
  #76  
wrk101
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Originally Posted by cudak888
Depends. Suntour V/Vx/VG-T's are entry-level parts, but the fact everyone talked them up over the last 10 years have unreasonably increased the perception of their value. Too many idiots asking big money for them, and even bigger idiots are paying north of $40 for them, even though they shouldn't bring a penny over $20.

-Kurt
Ultimately, the market decides and those V GT RDs are now going for $40 plus. With the split cage design, I like them!

I picked up two lower end Motobecanes this AM, the V GT derailleurs should cover the price paid.

MB Super Mirage, nothing special.

MB Grand Touring with Vitus frame tubing.
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Old 09-19-22, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by cudak888
Mind, I said innovation. Things like manual electronic shifting aren't innovations that make bicycles better, in my book; it's one of the most pretentiously precious things ever added to an analog bike. Added weight, more e-waste potential, the need to charge the darn thing, and compatibility all piled on just because someone would rather push a button than press a lever? Oy.

-Kurt
I have to admit to being intrigued by wireless e-shifting. Not enough to spend that kind of money on it, but laziness in building things up makes me vaguely intrigued by the idea of not having to run cables (or replace them once every 3-5 years).
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Old 09-19-22, 01:28 PM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by himespau
I have to admit to being intrigued by wireless e-shifting. Not enough to spend that kind of money on it, but laziness in building things up makes me vaguely intrigued by the idea of not having to run cables (or replace them once every 3-5 years).
my theory for years is that wireless will eventually go down to BSO especially set up as 1x as ti will be cheaper than running a shift cable.

as much as I don't like sram and electronic shifting a 1x with big rear cassette, no front derailler and the wireless rear derailler can be a super clean build....have seen a number of pictures of builds like this from Dave Kirk
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Old 09-19-22, 02:00 PM
  #79  
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Generally, for bicycles that I am interested in, it's down. There are, and will be some exceptions - often for the highest-end and rarest, but not always.

Today's 45 year-old will be 2032's 55 year-old. I suspect that what the 45 - 55 age-range is nostalgic for is what will be most in demand - just as it was 10 years ago, and what it likely will be in another 10 years.

Imagine the conversations folks wlll be having n 20 years. The inevitable rise in back issues as people age, coupled with the trauma of riding something that's severely undersized will cause a monumental collapse in BMX interest and value. Manufacturers will be releasing products that make technomic stems look tame as the most stubborn continue to insist on massaging their chins with their knees as they ride around the track. They'll wear air-bag suits meant to protect them when they misjudge the landing, or get surprised by vertigo going over the moguls and take a spill - unwilling to part with that Hutch that set them back $35,000 in 2022 that's now commanding $750.

Me? I won't care. I'll find places to enjoy riding whatever I feel like, and make up crazy stories to tell grandchildren and great-grandchildren while I train for my age-group on a timeless steel beauty.
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Old 09-19-22, 03:42 PM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by cudak888
I wish some of those posting in this thread would remember that there are standards for using paragraphs. I'm glazing over just trying to read some of this.



You’re welcome. Most people require several beers for the same effect…..

Until you have to service a bottom bracket. I'm not talking about thread standards either, I'm talking about how many variations of left-hand cup adjustments one could find, even back in the 1960's and 1970's: Pin spanners, double flats, hex heads of various sizes, slotted, etc. Then there's the different wrench flats sizes one might find on the right-hand cup, most requiring a dedicated wrench, if not an entire puller tool just to keep pressure on the cup so the tool won't slip.

-Kurt

Got that covered, and I welcome any excuse to use this tool and tilt the axis of the earth a little bit in the process….

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Old 09-19-22, 04:23 PM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by El Chaba
Got that covered, and I welcome any excuse to use this tool and tilt the axis of the earth a little bit in the process….
But that's not a "T wrench, an L wrench, a peanut butter wrench, [or] a small flat bladed screwdriver."

I have the same Var tool. The factory-supplied jaw will do conventional 36mm fixed cups just fine, but it takes two additional jaws added to the set to handle all fixed cups - including the common 38mm Stronglight size.

-Kurt
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Old 09-19-22, 04:25 PM
  #82  
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P.S.: What we consider "standard" for the 1960's and 1970's C&V road bikes would have been newfangled planned obsolescence in the 1920's and 1930's.

Has anyone opened a copy of The Golden Age of Handbuilt Bicycles? Imagine if what you were used to were the early designs at the front of the book, not the ones at the center and the end.

-Kurt
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Old 09-20-22, 11:37 AM
  #83  
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I'm 28 and though I've caught the bug for about 10 years, I don't think I'll ever fully delve deep into the hobby past the mid 1970s. Early/mid 90s sport touring are my preferred, though before I preferred the early/mid 80s era. I want the "look" of a classic bicycle without the hassle of strange standards or sourcing high quality freewheels with the right cog combinations, it's just getting too difficult to certain parts for cheap. Also would like to avoid having to cold set a 120mm/126mm OLD frame to 130mm, or mess about with clamping bottle cages or cable guides onto the frame. Still looking for "the one", and would of course move heaven and earth to make the frame work with the parts I desire if the geometry was right. My interest as someone younger than most on this forum is the bikes' relative low prices, easy mechanics, and nostalgic parents. I foresee the hobby (i.e. tinkering and buying/selling bikes) being a large part of my life until I find the right frame or until I start a family. After that my plan is to purchase and refurb a bike once a year just to have fun, while keeping the # of bikes at 2 or 3 and not a revolving door.
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Old 09-20-22, 12:44 PM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by smd4
I find it interesting that more than a few posters said they got into C&V because it was cheaper.

I got into C&V mostly because I never left it. I built my bike 20 years ago with a combo of Ultegra and 7700 Dura Ace, along with lesser, sometimes nameless parts like seat post and stem. Spent a lot of the past two decades just upgrading parts (Titanium rear axle; upgraded DA parts to replace the Ultegra; better saddle). This certainly wasn't the cheap way to do C&V.
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Old 09-20-22, 03:31 PM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by Piff
I foresee the hobby (i.e. tinkering and buying/selling bikes) being a large part of my life until I find the right frame or until I start a family. After that my plan is to purchase and refurb a bike once a year just to have fun, while keeping the # of bikes at 2 or 3 and not a revolving door.
Ha! No way you can keep it at 2 or 3 bikes. Everyone who goes down this road will end up with as many bikes and frames as there is garage space to keep them
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Old 09-20-22, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Piff
while keeping the # of RIDEABLE bikes at 2 or 3 and not a revolving door.
Fixed it
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Old 09-20-22, 07:43 PM
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You only need one. Ride the one that brung ya.
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Old 09-20-22, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by icemilkcoffee
Ha! No way you can keep it at 2 or 3 bikes. Everyone who goes down this road will end up with as many bikes and frames as there is garage space to keep them
This is truth.
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Old 09-21-22, 01:44 PM
  #89  
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I didn't buy vintage bikes (other than the 2 my wife and have owned since 1972) until I built a garage where I could keep them out of the weather, and I was 57 at the time. I was constantly passing garage sales where I could pick up good 3-speed, road, and mountain bikes for cheap. I started fixing them up and flipping them to get more cash to buy more vintage bikes. I usually had 20 to 25 bikes in the garage at any one time. I rode 4 or 5 of them regularly while the others were either being refurbed or waiting for a buyer. About 3 years ago the buyers disappeared - I started giving the lower end bikes away, and stopped buying altogether.
I spoke with my 30 year old son about this and he told me that he, like most of his friends can't afford a house, let alone a house with a bonus like a garage or dry basement. He thinks old cars, old bikes, and old books are cool; but he can't deal with the volume of space those possessions require. He collects vinyl records and old wooden beer crates; the records fit in the crates and the crates are easy to move.
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Old 09-22-22, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by himespau
I have to admit to being intrigued by wireless e-shifting. Not enough to spend that kind of money on it, but laziness in building things up makes me vaguely intrigued by the idea of not having to run cables (or replace them once every 3-5 years).
Originally Posted by squirtdad
my theory for years is that wireless will eventually go down to BSO especially set up as 1x as ti will be cheaper than running a shift cable.

as much as I don't like sram and electronic shifting a 1x with big rear cassette, no front derailler and the wireless rear derailler can be a super clean build....have seen a number of pictures of builds like this from Dave Kirk
For not having to run cables, I'd try SRAM's E-Tap as it's all wireless. With Shimano and Campy, you still have to run wires. Newest 12-speed Shimano at least goes wireless from the shifter to the FD/battery/BB. That's a nice improvement. I do like electronic shifting, and I have most-of-a-groupsets waiting for wiring and a battery to complete them. Sadly for them, I'm building a companion 3x downtube shifting bike (companion to my Trek 720) for winter/rain and no beautiful Di2 to adorn a frame at the moment. So it goes. Maybe some day..

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Old 09-22-22, 06:31 AM
  #91  
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Trying to establish a current trend after almost three years of pandemic can be biased. Before that, I cannot establish a clear trend but rather waves of ups and downs. Today we can only sum up relevant anecdotes to rely upon in order to get a big picture, this thread is a good opportunity. AFAIC, I talked just a few days ago with another longtime bike enthusiast who was (still is, albeit less) also well involved in the sector. He said that he did see interest waning from new generations, admittedly he was also quite disillusioned about how things changed and became too business-oriented, and I agree one can hardly deny it, but frankly I guess that is also in part a generational blues systematically repeating in time. I know a few young folks working on and riding classic bikes, they may not be representative of their age-population, but they’re real. Also on new generations, it definitely seems a fact their detachment from material « owning », meaning less collectionneurs, but that doesn’t prevent them from being users. If you go to Montreal and in particular around university campuses, you will see plenty of old steel road bikes with dropbars, many also quite nice. Yes many have been modernized, and probably their owners mostly don’t care about originality or collectibility, but those frames are around, alive and used, and some young folks know them and will remember them. Mobility, especially in cities, is going through tremendous changes, and bikes are going to be center stage. *-bikes? Sure, but not only. Jury is still out about batteries, while obsolescence/low-serviceability of modern components might push, who knows, towards simplified technologies that might still work with old bikes?

It is always a daunting task to try to predict the future for anything, C&V bikes niche makes no exception. People tastes and interests, just like fashion, will ebb and flow. New generations will think and live differently from the previous ones. Climate consciousness will change mobility and consumption habits. Older generations will gradually fade away and the new “nostalgic years” will shift forward in time. How all this will impact our beloved sector is impossible to say. After all, arguments on where is C&V heading can be found on opposite sides…

While it is easy to foresee a lower share of young folks who will have a connection with C&V bikes, be it for collecting/riding/wrenching (remember the Rider, Wrencher, Collector thread?), it is also amazing to see how many young faces pop up during classic events, just give a look at Gaiole Eroica official photos and videos. One thing is sure: nostalgic C&V lovers will gradually decrease, that is a fact, how much young folks will keep the flame on is uncertain, but there’s no reason to be utterly negative.

Personally, I’m not making a living or profits out of C&V bikes, so I just enjoy them day by day.
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Old 09-22-22, 06:53 AM
  #92  
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Turnout at the recent Superdawg VW show was impressive. Just about every parking spot taken by the local VW club. I'm the yellow Westfalia camper. And to my surprise Superdawg now serves their own beer!

My collecting has cooled off. Just running out of room. I have 8 bikes and thats all I can store. Was just over to my friend and super collectors house yesterday. He was showing me his recent haul from a bike shop in Iowa which included 6!!! Hetchins bicycles. Yowza! We were talking about how the vintage bikes are fewer and he is traveling farther to buy them.
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Old 09-22-22, 07:56 AM
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I guess I got into C&V bikes when I wrenched at a bike shop in the mid 80s though I suppose the bikes weren't as old then! More specifically, that shop was a Raleigh dealer back in the day and had lots of Sturmey-Archer 3-speed stuff around and for whatever reason I found that technology really fun to ride and to overhaul. I also bought a late 70s SuperCourse from the owner of the shop, and that was my primary road bike for many years with a Raleigh Sports around for townie stuff. It was when I first moved to the Boston area, 30 years ago now, that I became more interested in old bikes. Those first four years I was in grad school and needed any distraction I could get (did a lot of homebrewing while writing my dissertation). Then, Craig's List happened, and I discovered that I could buy old road bikes cheap on CL, turn them into single speeds, and sell them off to the abundant college crowd. That created lots of spare parts in my bins. Then it was a procession through lots of bikes I'd purchase, rehab, ride for a while, and then move on. What I ride most now aren't C&V bikes; all but one are steel (that on is Ti), but I take advantage of a good deal of modern technology and have developed an open mind to that tech. Back in the day, I figured bar-end friction shifting was as much as I would ever need, but that's just because I hadn't really experienced the precision of good index shifting. And then I tried Shimergo builds, and then 1x11 and, yeah. I feel somewhat burdened now by the C&V bikes taking up room in my basement. I didn't intend to be a museum curator, but it just kind of happened. My wife and I are getting close to retirement and to downsizing, so the 20 or so bikes I currently own and ride will certainly need to be whittled down radically before too long. So the TL;DR version is--my interest in C&V bikes is waning.
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Old 09-22-22, 08:14 AM
  #94  
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I don't have a crystal ball but I suspect interest will likely continue to wane as many of us fade away. So is the "golden age" of C&V passed? Probably.

The reason I got into it is I had been a devoted runner and began to suffer from chronic injuries, and was advised to maybe consider biking for my exercise. I honestly don't remember what the first bike I purchased was, but after that, I began to study bikes and then I found this website where I learned from so many knowledgeable members. I started looking at my local Craigslist and found some vintage bikes that were in need of repair. Based on what I learned here and from some websites such as Sheldon Brown's, and Park Tools, I learned how to wrench a bit.

I remember the satisfaction of completely tearing a bike down and reassembling it. I remember the first time I removed and replaced some brifters from a mountain bike. The new ones dialed in perfectly and I was quite proud. My true love turned out to be for steel frames and I've acquired some really nice ones. Nothing super valuable, but priceless to me. Along the way I got excited about single speed and fixed gear bikes and now have a handful of those.

Will people be drawn into this like I was, in the future? Hard to say. Sure, there will be some, maybe due to the comparatively low cost of older bikes. Maybe vintage bikes will suddenly become "cool" again? Maybe they still are in some places?

But like many things I foresee a general slide downward. Just the way it goes.

I haven't done it recently, but I think a thanks is due to the regulars here that help me to continue to be interested and yes, sometimes really excited about C&V bicycles.

So thanks!
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Old 09-22-22, 08:27 AM
  #95  
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Originally Posted by big chainring


Turnout at the recent Superdawg VW show was impressive. Just about every parking spot taken by the local VW club. I'm the yellow Westfalia camper. And to my surprise Superdawg now serves their own beer!

My collecting has cooled off. Just running out of room. I have 8 bikes and thats all I can store. Was just over to my friend and super collectors house yesterday. He was showing me his recent haul from a bike shop in Iowa which included 6!!! Hetchins bicycles. Yowza! We were talking about how the vintage bikes are fewer and he is traveling farther to buy them.
Nice Westfalia, man. You got a bike rack for that?

Superdawg is pretty great. It's a regular stop on the ride back from he Botanical Gardens.
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Old 09-22-22, 10:03 AM
  #96  
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Originally Posted by TugaDude
Based on what I learned here and from some websites such as Sheldon Brown's, and Park Tools, I learned how to wrench a bit.
I completely agree about Sheldon Brown's website. When I got into bicycling and C&V bikes in 2020 during the Covid shutdown, I stumbled onto the Sheldon Brown website and pored through the entire thing . It was like a bible for C&V bikes. This hobby would be much more difficult and frustrating without Sheldon Brown. Of course Bikeforums' C&V section is also quintessential
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Old 09-22-22, 02:59 PM
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I think some of the interest in C&V bikes increased when folks were looking to get a bike for transportation or JRA and found our bikes on CR or some other site. And I think that e-bikes will supplant much of that interest. Pedaling is no longer required. For some buyers/potential hobbyists who could afford a new bike, a second hand bike was as good or better than a new one. Nowadays, many of those buyers will opt for pedal or throttle assist to have 20mph recreation or transportation. After all, a bike is a bike.
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Old 09-22-22, 05:36 PM
  #98  
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Originally Posted by icemilkcoffee
Ha! No way you can keep it at 2 or 3 bikes. Everyone who goes down this road will end up with as many bikes and frames as there is garage space to keep them
I have kept my number down to 3 personal bikes (plus one non ridden significant other bike and son's "best christmas present ever" BMX hanging and waiting for next generation to come around)

it is tough, but I keep one "best bike, ride as much as I can", one Cino ready bike (and backup to best bike) and one sit upright throw a leg over and run errands/go to brew pub bike)

I have being eyeing another bike which would put it up to 4, and will be swapping out my "Best bike" fairly soon I do have clincher and tubular wheelsets for 2 of the bikes
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Old 09-22-22, 07:27 PM
  #99  
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So…things have been kinda stable around here the last couple of years. Got a Pegoretti for my 70th a year ago, riding it somewhat delayed due to shoulder surgery but it’s getting some miles now. Picked up a Bob Jackson 753 Diamond Jubilee around last Christmas, it’s also been getting some miles. Right now, at ten bikes all ready to ride at a moment’s notice.

That’s about to change.

Restoration on the Sad Shape Wizard frameset purchased from Gary12000 in June of last year is finally complete, and Joe Bell has shipped it. Look for an upcoming build thread featuring (Oh!) first gen Dura Ace.

Richard Sachs completed the build of my custom frame in late June and by now it’s at the paint shop. They’re six months behind, I hear, so maybe delivery in January. That, when completed, will bring the stable up to an even dozen. And I’m good with that.

Even though I always look at the classifieds in various places, not much bakes my cookies these days, when compared to what’s in The Lab.
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Old 09-22-22, 07:56 PM
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Classtime 
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Doc, that is very exciting and some seriously stable interest in C&V. While waiting for my Sachs to get painted, I coulda shoulda picked up a NOS 25th Anniversary 7700 group for 1500 bucks.
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