LCI_Brian

Unless a city has decided to implement lower fees for bicycle violations (not many have), the fines for violations on a bicycle are the same as that for a car - so it may not be a "small" fee! :-)

cbchess

Usually for something small like this, if you show up for court dress nice and say "yes sir" every chance you get they will throw it out.
They threw out my last speeding ticket. (first one in 15+ years)
I was amazed at how rude and disrespectful everybody else who showed up for traffic court was. (and sloppily dressed!)
Some kids were even charged for snickering and talking junk during the court session.

Jeff262

Wow you rode through Rubidoux at 10:30 at night. You are one brave dude! I'm sure you know the area and why cops are on edge there. They must have been County Sheriff not RPD.

BTW good for you for refusing the search.

cjbruin

Interesting. I went to court for my last speeding ticket in 1990 and it seemed that as long as the officers showed up, you were screwed. I presented my case and proved mathematically that there was no way the CHP guy could have clocked me at 65 mph (no radar) for one mile (as he stated). From the point that he saw me going the other way, turned around, to the point where he pulled me over, his AVERAGE speed needed to be 99 mph. There was simply no possible way that his story could have been true yet the judge still sided with him.

urbanknight

Sounds like a rare case. You could have even appealed that and lawyered up, but it probably would have cost more than the ticket and any resulting increase in insurance rates.

My friend got a ticket for failing to yeild at a crosswalk when the ped jumped off the curb from behind a car after she was already going through the intersection (so the ped was hidden from view). I was her witness, so we went to court, explained the situation, and the judge dismissed the charge.

merckx_rider

I hope this helps,
I've noticed that the flashing mode on my front light makes drivers notice me easier, as an argument maybe you can explain that it is in that mode for increased safety....

DScott

The only arguement is: a light's a light.

The law requires one. They cited the OP for not having one. He says he did. That's the issue the OP has to dispute. If he can prove to the judge he had a light that satisfies the legal requirement, he's done.

The rest is irrelevant.

Wanderer

The Supreme Court has recently ruled that their right to search is limited to the reason for the original stop.

FCR (Federal Codified Regulations) restrict FLASHING lights on the front of a vehicle to EMERGENCY VEHICLES ONLY.

Modulated lights on motorcycles are a different animal altogether. The headlight never goes out, therefore it never flashes off and on. It varies it's intensity from 25% power, to 75% power, never going off. And, it must do this 4 times each second. (These are permissible on motorcycles only, per FCR.)

"CVC 21201:
"(d) A bicycle operated during darkness upon a highway, a sidewalk
where bicycle operation is not prohibited by the local jurisdiction,
or a bikeway, as defined in Section 890.4 of the Streets and Highways
Code, shall be equipped with all of the following:
(1) A lamp emitting a white light that, while the bicycle is in
motion, illuminates the highway, sidewalk, or bikeway in front of the
bicyclist and is visible from a distance of 300 feet in front and
from the sides of the bicycle."

I think this also says that the headlight must be emitting light while it is in motion - if it is off, at all, it's not emitting.l


Mostly, the LEOs let us get away with blinkies on the front, but, don't have to.

prathmann

The vehicle and highway codes are determined by each state separately and the California rule only restricts blue flashing lights from use on bicycles, not white lights or any other colors. Furthermore, under California law bicycles are explicitly excluded from the definition of 'vehicle'.

There is a federal set of vehicle codes that is used by the states to provide a basic level of commonality between states. But each state creates their own vehicle codes which differ in quite a few ways from the federal guidelines. Legally only the codes enacted by the specific state has the force of law on the roads belonging to that state.

Extort

For this to apply, the person being detained would have to know why they are being stopped. So this is a reinforcement of politely asking the officer why you are being stopped prior to providing any further information.

However, bicyclists (the people) are 'operators of a vehicle' and subject to the same rights and responsibilities as all other operators. This can be alluded to the fact that cars don't kill people, people kill people when using a vehicle. Also, it is VERY difficult to get a BMW or Toyota to pay for a traffic ticket...

LCI_Brian

BTW, the purpose of the "emitting light while in motion" clause was to allow lights powered by sidewall generators, which only work when the bike is moving.

prathmann

No, since a bicycle is not a vehicle under California a cyclist is also *not* an 'operator of a vehicle'. The cyclist is subject to the same rights and responsibilities as a vehicle operator - that does not make him/her an operator of a vehicle. But the question at hand was about equipment (such as flashing lights) that might legally be affixed to a vehicle and is not about the rights and responsibility of the vehicle operator. There are a variety of requirements and restrictions in the California VC that deal with the vehicle directly and these do not apply to bicycles since those are not included in the legal definition of vehicle in this state.

cjbruin

IMO, you are still missing the point. It's not that the bicycle cannot have a flashing light, it's that the flashing light on it's own does not meet the requirement for a headlamp because it does not sufficiently illuminate the roadway.

LCI_Brian

But that's the gray area. CVC 21201 (d)(1) says the light has to be visible from 300 feet away. The flashing LED surely meets that requirement. CVC 21201 (d)(1) also says that the light has to illuminate the road in front of the bicyclist - but it doesn't say how well is has to do so. You could argue that you're meeting the "illumination" requirement as long as you've got enough useful light to see where you're going. On the other hand, you could say something flashing isn't "illuminating", so the flashing LED by itself is insufficient. Then, of course, one could say that an LED is not a "lamp" - but that's another can of worms.

urbanknight

cjbruin has a point there. It does say illuminating the road. A flashing light would be violating that rule one split second at a time. A bit of a stretch, but it could be argued.

cjbruin

So...I guess what we're all saying is that it could go either way.

Does it seem ironic to anyone else that the OP joined BF so he could start this thread, ask his question, and hasn't thanked anyone for their input?

Cyclist0383

Never been to Monroe county have, you? I was ticked for 2 miles over the limit.

prathmann

I agree that the wording of the statute with regard to the capability required of the headlight are not very clear and that there could be a legitimate argument about whether a flashing light fully complies. The period and brightness of the flash could also play a role here. I.e. does the light flash often enough and for a great enough distance that the cyclist could see and stop in time to avoid a hazard? If so it would at least appear to satisfy the functional intent of the regulation requiring a headlamp that illuminates the area in front of the cyclist.

What I was disagreeing with were some claims that any flashing light would be prohibited based on some federal code (which doesn't apply on state territory) regarding vehicle equipment (doesn't apply in Cal. where bicycles are not vehicles).

LCI_Brian

It makes it hard when the laws are written based on the technology at the time, rather than to a technology-neutral performance standard. For example, technically you're in violation of the law if you have a rear flashing LED light instead of a rear red reflector, even if the LED is more visible than the reflector required by law.

referee54

When I was reffing in the MAC, I drove through Michigan all of the time---Central, Western, Eastern. Went up to Northern, Hillsdale, Hope, Alma, etc...I was wowed by how fast people were driving...you go up I-75, or Rt. 23...as you cross over from Ohio to Michigan, it became a Formula one race...

TSC

gunslinger14647

I really have to wonder; what TRUE verbage was used by the OP during the contact? I'm a sergeant with the CHP. I've been on a while, and I know when someone becomes aggressive, verbally or physically, my demeanor ramps one notch higher than theirs. My safety, and ultimately yours, dictates I control the situation. I would bet big money he did not say, "Why officers, what is the concern this evening?" He was probably flipping his arms around, dropping the "F" bomb. The OP's post strikes me as nothing more than a dig at "cops" in general. If the OP's post is the absolute truth, than I would certainly empathize with his plight. Frankly, I've NEVER seen one of my troops (or allied agencies, for that matter) just go nuts on a bicyclist for having a flashing headlight. There are always two sides to a story. I'd love to speak to the deputies or officers involved to get their side of the story. Maybe he was a near, or exact, match for a recent shooting, robbery, whatever, suspect which had occurred in the nearby vicinity. Can I stop you if you match a reasonable description? Yeah, I have every right (and I would hope the general public would see the purpose of this). Please don't just jump on the OP's side without considering both sides. Yeah, I ride, both road (mostly) and sometimes MTB. For the record, if one of my officers acted in this manner, he/she would be standing tall. We're not out there to "get", "harass", "intimidate" people. Can you "MF" me and expect to not be screwed with? Sure. But sometimes the expression, "Me thinks thou dost protest too much" is absolutely fact. Just my two cents.

urbanknight

Absolutely. As they say, there are always 3 sides to every story: One side, the other side, and the truth. It wouldn't surprise me if the OP left out his mistakes in the situation, and if questioned, the officers would leave out any mistakes on their part.

My advice is based on the OP's story, whether true, half true, or flat out lie. If he wants advice for the truth, he should provide the truth. If he's lying, using my advice will come back to bite him when the truth becomes evident in court. Only he can decide if he's hanging himself or not. I have only had one truly bad situation with a cop. He was giving me attitude before I even did anything, but I was young and gave the attitude back to him. I lost, I gave up, and learned my lesson. After that, he then gave attitude to the next guy in line (fix-it inspection). Too bad, but I felt after my attitude, I didn't have the right to file a complaint.

All other cases involving an officer, including receiving a ticket, have been fine and sometimes even pleasant or funny. Just because it made me think of it here's a good story: Some cops decided to cruise around our car club meeting and give people a hard time for not having a front plate (no tickets, just warnings - probably because we were respectful). When one walked up to me and asked in a stern voice "which car is yours?" I said "The one with a front plate on." He couldn't help but crack a smile before moving on.

LCI_Brian

Gunslinger's got some good points. Since when do cops go out of their way to give a bicyclist a ticket for having a flashing front light?

gunslinger14647

I try to make any enforcement contact I make at least amicable, and at best, pleasant and informative. No one wants a ticket (I wouldn't), but most will admit they did indeed deserve it. The "no front plate" contact is an easy way for me to check on a driver's sobriety, license status and insurance. So many people out there have no license to drive, yet still do, despite having never proving their ability. Almost as many have no insurance, which screws you and me over by raising our costs or destroying our ability to support our families after we're disabled in a collision. I think you'll find 99.999% of all LEOs don't take violations they witness personally. If I stop and write you, it's not because I think you're a bad person. It's just my job. A LOT of bad guys fake indignity about being stopped as a ploy to distract the officer and try to unbalance him/her by placing the officer on the defense.

I told one guy I would let him off if he told me a joke I hadn't heard before. I was going to let him go regardless, but it gave me a new joke to tell We're not all humorless nazis

longbeachgary

That's kind of a big leap for someone who wasn't there. And NO, you can't search my bag. What are the chances that some white guy on a bike with a flashing front ligtht just robbed a bank?