23 Skiddoo!
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 5,971
Bikes: 2015 Charge Plug, 2007 Dahon Boardwalk, 1997 Nishiki Blazer, 1984 Nishiki International, 2006 Felt F65, 1989 Dahon Getaway V
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1364 Post(s)
Liked 1,676 Times
in
827 Posts
23 Skiddoo!
I just rode on 700x23 tires for the first time in a dozen years, and it was not what I expected.
I recently bought a lightweight road bike, an aluminum/carbon Felt F65 (2002-2006), to eventually replace my 1984 Nishiki International. The Nishiki is pretty banged and bodged up. Although I have three dedicated commuters with fenders and racks (2015 Charge Plug, 1997 Nishiki Blazer & 2007 Dahon Boardwalk) I still like to take a road bike to work for variety. The old Nishiki was okay for parking in an unused room like I did at my old job. But at the new job, the only indoor parking is in my office, in plain sight behind my desk. When I started I upgraded the space from its casual dorm-room/cave motif, and although the Felt is almost 20 years old, it is at least of this century and is office presentable as are the Charge and the Dahon.
When I acquired the Nishiki in 2009 it wore 700x23 tires which I kept at 100psi. The ride was jarring and harsh in one way, but supple in another thanks to the very flexible thin steel frame, especially the seat and chain stays. But eventually I switched to the biggest tires that would fit...28s which really softened the ride.
The Felt F65 wouldn't accept the 28s, but that's okay because the fork, seat post and seat-stay are carbon fiber. The frame is aluminum (except for the seat stay). But the carbon really soaks up the sharp hits and road chatter in a way I didn't expect. and when I first rode it, I knew it wouldn't beat me up. I also am running the tires at 90 psi for now. And it came with a non-OEM slightly padded seat with a cutout which makes my 60-year-old butt happy.
Yesterday I rode it to the office for the first time. I don't have a speedometer yet ,so while it felt much faster that may just be the road chatter of the 23s talking. I didn't have lights on it yet, but I have lights on my helmet. I also won't be putting a mirror on it, as I have a glasses mounted mirror. I also didn't have the bottle holders on yet. But I did mount an AirZound airhorn which came in handy a couple of times in traffic.
As with the rackless Nishiki International, I wore my backpack to the office. I can't wait till the weekend when I can go for an extended ride without my commute bag.
Thanks for letting me share...my wife is tired of hearing about it.
I recently bought a lightweight road bike, an aluminum/carbon Felt F65 (2002-2006), to eventually replace my 1984 Nishiki International. The Nishiki is pretty banged and bodged up. Although I have three dedicated commuters with fenders and racks (2015 Charge Plug, 1997 Nishiki Blazer & 2007 Dahon Boardwalk) I still like to take a road bike to work for variety. The old Nishiki was okay for parking in an unused room like I did at my old job. But at the new job, the only indoor parking is in my office, in plain sight behind my desk. When I started I upgraded the space from its casual dorm-room/cave motif, and although the Felt is almost 20 years old, it is at least of this century and is office presentable as are the Charge and the Dahon.
When I acquired the Nishiki in 2009 it wore 700x23 tires which I kept at 100psi. The ride was jarring and harsh in one way, but supple in another thanks to the very flexible thin steel frame, especially the seat and chain stays. But eventually I switched to the biggest tires that would fit...28s which really softened the ride.
The Felt F65 wouldn't accept the 28s, but that's okay because the fork, seat post and seat-stay are carbon fiber. The frame is aluminum (except for the seat stay). But the carbon really soaks up the sharp hits and road chatter in a way I didn't expect. and when I first rode it, I knew it wouldn't beat me up. I also am running the tires at 90 psi for now. And it came with a non-OEM slightly padded seat with a cutout which makes my 60-year-old butt happy.
Yesterday I rode it to the office for the first time. I don't have a speedometer yet ,so while it felt much faster that may just be the road chatter of the 23s talking. I didn't have lights on it yet, but I have lights on my helmet. I also won't be putting a mirror on it, as I have a glasses mounted mirror. I also didn't have the bottle holders on yet. But I did mount an AirZound airhorn which came in handy a couple of times in traffic.
As with the rackless Nishiki International, I wore my backpack to the office. I can't wait till the weekend when I can go for an extended ride without my commute bag.
Thanks for letting me share...my wife is tired of hearing about it.
Last edited by BobbyG; 08-09-22 at 10:23 AM.
Likes For BobbyG:
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 5,763
Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Supercorsa
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3494 Post(s)
Liked 2,911 Times
in
1,766 Posts
I run 700 x 23s, and may go narrower. I run my tires at a much higher pressure, much to the consternation of many on this board. Enjoy the light and responsive ride! It's a pretty cool looking bike.
#3
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 5,971
Bikes: 2015 Charge Plug, 2007 Dahon Boardwalk, 1997 Nishiki Blazer, 1984 Nishiki International, 2006 Felt F65, 1989 Dahon Getaway V
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1364 Post(s)
Liked 1,676 Times
in
827 Posts
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: North Central Wisconsin
Posts: 4,621
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2975 Post(s)
Liked 1,180 Times
in
770 Posts
Not sure what the point of this post is other than you needed to share with us because your wife no longer wants to listen to you.
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 978
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 504 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 637 Times
in
355 Posts
I just rode on 700x23 tires for the first time in a dozen years, and it was not what I expected.
The Felt F65 wouldn't accept the 28s, but that's okay because the fork, seat post and seat-stay are carbon fiber. The frame is aluminum (except for the seat stay). But the carbon really soaks up the sharp hits and road chatter in a way I didn't expect. and when I first rode it, I knew it wouldn't beat me up. I also am running the tires at 90 psi for now. And it came with a non-OEM slightly padded seat with a cutout which makes my 60-year-old butt happy.
Yesterday I rode it to the office for the first time. I don't have a speedometer yet ,so while it felt much faster that may just be the road chatter of the 23s talking.
The Felt F65 wouldn't accept the 28s, but that's okay because the fork, seat post and seat-stay are carbon fiber. The frame is aluminum (except for the seat stay). But the carbon really soaks up the sharp hits and road chatter in a way I didn't expect. and when I first rode it, I knew it wouldn't beat me up. I also am running the tires at 90 psi for now. And it came with a non-OEM slightly padded seat with a cutout which makes my 60-year-old butt happy.
Yesterday I rode it to the office for the first time. I don't have a speedometer yet ,so while it felt much faster that may just be the road chatter of the 23s talking.
Likes For KerryIrons:
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: North Central Wisconsin
Posts: 4,621
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2975 Post(s)
Liked 1,180 Times
in
770 Posts
Lots of people (like SMD4) think that the feeling of harsher tires is faster. The Pro Peleton and all their mechanics thought this for decades until the research proved them wrong. When you wear out these 23mm tires, try 25mm if they will fit. Every bit wider helps with improved comfort and traction, longer tire wear, and no penalty in rolling resistance. The data don't lie.
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 5,763
Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Supercorsa
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3494 Post(s)
Liked 2,911 Times
in
1,766 Posts
Lots of people (like SMD4) think that the feeling of harsher tires is faster. The Pro Peleton and all their mechanics thought this for decades until the research proved them wrong. When you wear out these 23mm tires, try 25mm if they will fit. Every bit wider helps with improved comfort and traction, longer tire wear, and no penalty in rolling resistance. The data don't lie.
But anyway, that's not what I think at all, KerryIrons. I actually LIKE the feeling of narrower, higher-pressure tires. I like the feeling of responsiveness and non-sluggishness. I have no interest in going fast--I enjoy leisurely rides. But I do know that true racing bikes weren't built to be "comfortable."
Likes For smd4:
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 5,763
Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Supercorsa
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3494 Post(s)
Liked 2,911 Times
in
1,766 Posts
Likes For smd4:
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,938
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3943 Post(s)
Liked 7,286 Times
in
2,942 Posts
#10
Mother Nature's Son
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Sussex County, Delaware
Posts: 3,107
Bikes: 2014 Orbea Avant MD30, 2004 Airborne Zeppelin TI, 2003 Lemond Poprad, 2001 Lemond Tourmalet, 2014? Soma Smoothie
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 852 Post(s)
Liked 1,433 Times
in
815 Posts
I've not been on 23's in a while, but I like riding 25's on a couple of my bikes. I no longer max out the psi, around 15% under, or so. I enjoy the feeling of the skinny tires occasionally, feels like what a fast road bike was supposed to feel like for so long, fast and agile. and comfortable on good pavement. I believe one does get a sense of more feedback from the road surface. I do not want ride skinnies all the time, but I like it for a change of pace.
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 978
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 504 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 637 Times
in
355 Posts
Then why not just ride a mountain bike? Most of you guys are basically converting your thoroughbred racing bikes to hybrids anyways.
But anyway, that's not what I think at all, KerryIrons. I actually LIKE the feeling of narrower, higher-pressure tires. I like the feeling of responsiveness and non-sluggishness. I have no interest in going fast--I enjoy leisurely rides. But I do know that true racing bikes weren't built to be "comfortable."
But anyway, that's not what I think at all, KerryIrons. I actually LIKE the feeling of narrower, higher-pressure tires. I like the feeling of responsiveness and non-sluggishness. I have no interest in going fast--I enjoy leisurely rides. But I do know that true racing bikes weren't built to be "comfortable."
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 5,763
Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Supercorsa
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3494 Post(s)
Liked 2,911 Times
in
1,766 Posts
The pros were racing on 25mm tires in a lot of the TdF. That's pretty narrow in your book. And I don't need to convince anyone of anything--except to get off other peoples' back who may not enjoy cycling EXACTLY LIKE YOU DO!
Last edited by smd4; 08-10-22 at 10:27 AM.
#13
Veteran, Pacifist
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Seattle area
Posts: 13,327
Bikes: Bikes??? Thought this was social media?!?
Mentioned: 284 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3897 Post(s)
Liked 4,829 Times
in
2,228 Posts
'Wider is faster' depends on the 2 tires compared, inflated pressure and the road surface ridden.
25 or 27mm should be faster than 23s on paved road conditions, but some people have extrapolated that to say 32, 35, 38mm are faster - even when run at much lower pressures. On paved surfaces.
How wide are tires designed for wooden track races?
Don't think they are running 700X48mm @ 25psi, but maybe I'm wrong. . The rider probably would 'feel better' after racing 48s @25psi, .
25 or 27mm should be faster than 23s on paved road conditions, but some people have extrapolated that to say 32, 35, 38mm are faster - even when run at much lower pressures. On paved surfaces.
How wide are tires designed for wooden track races?
Don't think they are running 700X48mm @ 25psi, but maybe I'm wrong. . The rider probably would 'feel better' after racing 48s @25psi, .
__________________
Vintage, modern, e-road. It is a big cycling universe.
Vintage, modern, e-road. It is a big cycling universe.
Last edited by Wildwood; 08-10-22 at 10:40 AM.
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,606
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 581 Post(s)
Liked 921 Times
in
518 Posts
I took the 23mm tires off my wife's bike which she generally rode at 95/100psi, and installed 25mm tires and pumped them up to 85/90 psi. She didn't notice the tire change (same brand and model, just different widths) and she asked me what I did to make her bike so much faster.
#15
Disco Infiltrator
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Folsom CA
Posts: 13,446
Bikes: Stormchaser, Paramount, Tilt, Samba tandem
Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3126 Post(s)
Liked 2,102 Times
in
1,366 Posts
They probably only have tires because the rules say they have to. I kid, mostly. But at some level of skinny and pressure you might as well have an o-ring.
I find carbon bike parts "stiff and dead," they don't vibrate but they don't absorb that first hit any more than anything else. Also BobbyG's bike is a proper road bike with light and skinny parts that can flex. The fork on my gravel bike is a cargo hauling beast for 3-pack or low rider racks and disc brake so it probably needs that 43mm tire because it's never gonna be "whippy." Which is how you start making the case for suspension forks on gravel bikes... but that's a different thread
I find carbon bike parts "stiff and dead," they don't vibrate but they don't absorb that first hit any more than anything else. Also BobbyG's bike is a proper road bike with light and skinny parts that can flex. The fork on my gravel bike is a cargo hauling beast for 3-pack or low rider racks and disc brake so it probably needs that 43mm tire because it's never gonna be "whippy." Which is how you start making the case for suspension forks on gravel bikes... but that's a different thread
__________________
Genesis 49:16-17
Genesis 49:16-17
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 5,763
Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Supercorsa
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3494 Post(s)
Liked 2,911 Times
in
1,766 Posts
#17
Disco Infiltrator
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Folsom CA
Posts: 13,446
Bikes: Stormchaser, Paramount, Tilt, Samba tandem
Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3126 Post(s)
Liked 2,102 Times
in
1,366 Posts
Likes For Darth Lefty:
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 978
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 504 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 637 Times
in
355 Posts
Why can't we include MTB tires? Surely, if wider and lower pressures rule, they must be the best, by definition. And who are you to say I'm not comfortable? Presumptuous much? And I have no problem replacing tires when they wear out. This isn't a hobby for the cheap, and if you can't afford certain things--like tires--you shouldn't be running with the big dogs. Traction has never been a problem for me, either.
Why do you presume that I am being "beaten up?" Stop imagining that you know what's right for EVERYONE.
The pros were racing on 25mm tires in a lot of the TdF. That's pretty narrow in your book. And I don't need to convince anyone of anything--except to get off other peoples' back who may not enjoy cycling EXACTLY LIKE YOU DO!
Why do you presume that I am being "beaten up?" Stop imagining that you know what's right for EVERYONE.
The pros were racing on 25mm tires in a lot of the TdF. That's pretty narrow in your book. And I don't need to convince anyone of anything--except to get off other peoples' back who may not enjoy cycling EXACTLY LIKE YOU DO!
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 5,763
Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Supercorsa
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3494 Post(s)
Liked 2,911 Times
in
1,766 Posts
So let's move on to the next topic: My largest sprocket is 23T. Go:
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 5,763
Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Supercorsa
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3494 Post(s)
Liked 2,911 Times
in
1,766 Posts
Likes For ofajen:
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 5,763
Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Supercorsa
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3494 Post(s)
Liked 2,911 Times
in
1,766 Posts
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 5,763
Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Supercorsa
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3494 Post(s)
Liked 2,911 Times
in
1,766 Posts
Besides, why would I do that when I get 90% of the benefit as-is? Why would I want to spend money for new rims, new tubulars, new spokes, glue, spend time building the wheels and truing them? I've got enough NOS tires to last me the duration, and tubes are cheap. I may be crazy, but I'm not insane. But thanks for the "suggestion."