Lemond1985

Maybe the hazing had become a regular ritual 'round those parts. Sure, stop and let the guy past once, twice, three times, but you can't let some nut dictate your entire life for you. And the old guy, I suspect, was so old he didn't realize people could take video on their phones, he probably thought you needed a giant old school handheld camera to do that. Live and learn, I suppose.

Can you imagine trying to convince the cops that this guy did what he did without video evidence? I'm 100% certain they would assume the complainer was exaggerating, and probably a nut to boot.

I will probably offend some here by saying this, but this is the kind of thing idle retired people become obsessed with, and a good example of why paying people not to work is such a bad idea.

mcours2006

Get off my lawn, you young whipper snapper!

livedarklions

I love how willing people are to judgmentally second-guess someone else's decision of how best to deal with a clearly irrational driver who insists on staying behind them. You weren't there, and you have no special ability to predict what that guy would have done if they had stopped.

They came out of the situation unscathed. You really don't know what would've happened if they had pulled over. Second-guessing is cheap, no one can ever prove you wrong.

Lemond1985

You weren't there either. Maybe such unnamed persons are right. No one was harmed here, I don't understand the hysterics.

Maelochs

No matter what anyone does, if they tell the story on BF, 75 percent of the respondents will explain that they were wrong. If it happened again and those people did what the posters suggested, when they told that story, the same posters would say they did it wrong.

Moralizing on the internet is the quick path to self-perceived self-perfection---which is why I am so perfect (IMO.)

Notso_fastLane

1. I stopped caring what 'normal' people thought about me a long time ago.
2. I ride a recumbent, so I'm already 'weird' by most normal standards, so again, I don't care.

Hell, I wear bright orange leathers with fluffy tiger ears on my bright orange motorcycle. You think I care what people think? I want to be noticed. Between my bike and motorcycles, I've been hit multiple times, each time with the driver saying "I didn't see you."

So yeah, my priority is to make 'normal' people (i.e. morons) notice me.

https://oi26.photobucket.com/albums/..._081112_07.jpg

livedarklions

Admittedly, I wasn't there, which is why I think it would be rather idiotic for me to second-guess them, question their intelligence and their motivations. I'm surprised you obviously didn't get that.

Various people have referred to them as having been "not smart", "stubborn" and staying on the road just because they "didn't want to back down or something." Those statements clearly imply that the poster somehow knows better than the people who were actually there how this should have been handled.

I don't think I have to be hysterical to point out that's pretty dumb. Actually, I think you accusing me of "hysterics" is itself rather hysterical.

Notso_fastLane

Regardless of one's opinions on the actions of the cyclists at the time, this part of the post is somewhat overlooked by all those naysayers:

"Part of what got the Colorado State Patrol into protecting cyclist was a cell phone video of some old driver that frequently endangered cyclists."

So even if you don't think you want to run a camera, that's fine. I like to think that those who do, and the incidents that get reported to the close call database, help all of our fellow cyclists in a small way.

Leisesturm

See, this is the part I don't get. It is never the ... rational voices, arguing for a nuanced take on vehicular cycling that report having been hit, multiple times at that! I don't know, the 2nd time I got hit while using multiple flashers and/or day-glo orange clothing, I would have to question the validity of same. But no, the zealots just double down on what they must already realize is a failed strategy, and worse, advocate for others doing likewise. SMH. I'd have more respect for the attention seekers if they would just admit that they want attention for its own sake. That it is for 'safety' ... well that dog simply won't hunt. Btw, lose the Tiger Ears (and the rearview mirrors) and you might clean up your Cda enough to shave 0.01s off your lap times.

livedarklions

I can see the logic behind saying maybe getting hit multiple times is a good reason to reconsider a strategy, but here's the part I don't get--what has OP said that would justify the word "zealot"? If there's a problem with bright color clothing, it may be that it just isn't extreme enough--wearing it hardly makes you some sort of fanatic.

I wear bright yellow and orange because it MIGHT be effective, and I don't see any harm to it. Am I missing something? Obviously, I'm not under the impression that by itself is enough to ensure my safety, but seriously, are you under some delusion that the only reason to wear bright colors is attention "for its own sake"? I know as a driver, bicyclists in dark clothing are just plain harder to pick up out of the background, especially in the evening.

JoeyBike

Yeah, I'm a native New Orleanean. It's Mardi Gras every day down here too.

Maelochs

If I had been hit multiple times ... wait, i already did that.

What I did was analyze Why. I don't care if a driver says "I didn't see you." That is almost a reflex. I could be running six flashers at each end and have lit neon piping all across my bike and body and some fool will "not see" me--after he hits me. So I learned to listen, to watch, and to anticipate.

Not getting hit is still partly about luck. Nothing is guaranteed. But I changed my riding style a lot, and i don't get hit any more.

One guy wears hi-viz and gets hit--doesn't prove anything about hi-viz. The fact that he keeps getting hit even in hi-viz says something about behavior to me. But it could just be really bad luck. I cannot judge.

Here is this though: Does anyone think he gets hit Because he is wearing high-viz and multiple lights?

If not, then multiple lights and hi-viz are not any part of the issue. Not that they are not effective, just that other factors are overriding the safety benefit of being seen. Rigorous thought is needed here.

Wearing Hi-viz is not risky. Some risky riding behavior might be at play, or maybe location and time----does the guy regularly try to cut across four-way intersections at the tail-end of a light during rush hour when he is riding out of the west and the sun? I don't know.

And Wylann there ... yes, he wants to be odd-looking. Nobody wears fur "ears" on his motorcycle helmet for safety---he knows that and so do we. but I wouldn't hold that against him. But he still makes being seen a priority ... for whatever reason. And lot of safety-oriented folks would say that being seen is the primary step in cycling safety, so I cannot fault him, whatever other motivations he might have.

But this:
is ridiculous. He is Not getting hit because he can be seen. If he is not being seen, maybe he is riding (cutting between lanes?) so that drivers cannot see him in time to react? Maybe something else. But the Hi-Viz is not causing the accidents.

livedarklions

I honestly don't remember what I was wearing the one time I got hit, but it definitely caused me to change my behavior at intersections. I was too trusting that someone was going to signal a right-turn and got knocked over by someone who turned without signalling. Guess what he said when he got out of the car?

You're right about it being a reflex--what do people expect drivers to say--"I meant to do that" or "forgot to keep my eyes open"?

I'm not putting ears on my helmet, though. Around these parts, a drunk hunter might shoot me.

I-Like-To-Bike

Got it, you like to think that bicyclists running portable video equipment and the close call database help cyclists in a "small way", just as another poster claims that the cell phone camera recording of one incident of an obnoxious driver was "Part of what got the Colorado State Patrol into protecting cyclist[s]".

Anything is partly possible in a small way, if you believe strongly enough; a very small part perhaps, but possible.

mr_bill

Maelochs

Actual LOL response, thanks.

livedarklions

In New Hampshire, fur=shoot.

What's HWI?

Maelochs

In many states, Motion = Shoot. I have had to write about quite a few drunk hunter accidents ... You thought the guy dressed head-to-toe in danger orange had horns, right ..... The lady in her backyard looked just like a buck ....

Leisesturm

Sheesh, I know that! I wear hi-viz. I believe it helps because all the construction workers around here wear it, and on our morning commute at zero dark thirty when they are just showing up at the jobsite, all you can see of them are their vests and what not bobbing around in the dark. But my point, and I did have one, was IF I had been hit ... multiple times ... even while wearing hi-viz, I might start to question its worth. For the record, I do not think "Tony the Tiger" orange is on the list of official 'hi-viz' colors'. That MIGHT be part of the problem. Just a WAG, since we're all over the acronyms tonight.

CB HI

And when none of those witnesses are willing to show up in court 3 to 6 times before the judge gets tired of all the repeated defense continuance request?

CB HI

Some give up their rights and some stand up for their rights. You are lucky there are some willing to stand up for everyone's rights, even yours.

CB HI

Except (outside of Denver where CSP does not patrol) there is a huge difference these days in how cyclist are treated on Colorado highway by Colorado licensed drivers. Out of state dirvers who have not met CSP yet still harass, while Colorado drivers and now nice and pass safely.

Some Colorado drivers still hate being nice to cyclist, but they do not want CSP in their face. One of them, in his pick up truck passed me by moving into the oncoming lane, passed safely, then safely moved back into the right lane, he waited until he was over 100 yards away (too far away to read his plate #), honked his horn and flipped the bird out his window. He continued off angry, I continued with a huge smile on my face and a little laugh.

Maelochs

Okayy, my bad, I misunderstood this point ... sort of. Here is where the seed of misunderstanding was planted. if had been hit several times wearing hi-viz, I would still know hi-viz worked ... and I would wonder what else I had been doing wrong.

I know a lot of people (many posters here) seemingly cannot ride a week without life-threatening drama, while most others seem never to get hit, never to have drama, and just ride. I decided to figure out what i was doing wrong so I stop doing it and thus could join the latter group.

FrenchFit 

LOL. Seems to me that's standing up for being adolescent and whiny. The guy in the truck, the guys on the bike...pees in a pod. Perhaps they deserve each other.

wphamilton

Camera advocates: how often have you used video footage for insurance purposes or proving your side with a cop or in traffic court?