Bikeforumuser0019

I haven't weighed it yet but when I do I'll try to remember to post it up here.

DiabloScott

Another suggestion, reminiscent of the white Terry:



Felt's sizer says the 45cm size fits from 4'9" - 5'2" so @thetiniestbike fits right in the middle - good sign.
700x32 tires... fenders would be a little bit of a challenge. Pretty but not ostentatious.

Price: $569.00 (US) 23lbs

cyccommute 

You are 6" taller than thetiniestbike which changes things a lot.

However, with respect to the bike in post 31, I'm still not buying that the Peugeot that Barabaika posted weighs 24 lbs. There is just too much steel there for that bike to be that light.

I agree that 2lb or more could be saved by changing the handlebar and post. That's part of the problem. That's an 8% in weight reduction on a 24lb bike which says to me that all the other steel bits will add up to a whole lot more than 24 lb. I've handled way to many small kids bikes like that one to believe that its weight is competitive with an modern aluminum bike with aluminum parts and a very lightweight fork. Remember, I have one of the Terrys in hand. I know how light it is and how light something like the Peugeot M46 isn't.

And you'd still have a heavy old bike with hard to find tires. But your wallet would be lighter.

The Terry that you linked to, by the way, is out of stock. It has been for about 3 years. I don't know if the BikeIsland Terry is still in stock but at least it would be worth checking.



Peugeot never sold that many of them...no one except Helmart and other Big Box stores sell many kids bikes. Counting on finding one is depending on luck...probably not the best plan.

Who said anything about having to get a "shiny [new bike] every 3 years"? Bikes last longer than 3 years and small bikes last even longer. Small people aren't all that likely to break bikes like us larger folks can. Even those of us who are height challenged can and do own bikes that are older than 3 years...10 year old carbon fork, remember?

Bikeforumuser0019

You are correct. Not sure what this has to do with anything, but you are correct.

I got pulled into this thread somewhat against my wishes, so I think it's time for me to bow out. It's getting a bit needlessly contentious for my taste.

cyccommute 

Good find. That seems a bit tall for someone 4'9" however. My 5' tall wife with long legs fits nicely on a 650C 44cm Terry with a standover height of 696mm. The Felt's 700C wheels give it a standover of 707mm which would put it at just a little too tall for my wife. I would suspect that would be a bit tall for someone an inch shorter.

Barabaika

The bike that you posted is a racing bike with the racing geometry. It's for a person who rides 5 times a year with her husband, it's not for a person who shops or commutes every day.

For example. Does you wife's bike have a rack with a bag or panniers? If she has panniers, does she touch them while pedaling? I ask it because the rear wheel is so close to the seat post, and panniers will be very close too.

Buying a cheap vintage bike and adding a new seat, rack, etc and updating some components is an excellent way to have a very good bike that is unattractive to thieves.

Otherwise, Japanese bike companies make tons of utility bicycles for tiny Japanese ladies already equipped with all commuting goodies.
The thread is about "the best commuter bike for the tiniest commuter person", isn't it?

Check:
Panasonic
Bridgestone

They sell bicycles with batteries and electric motors for $1,000 now - and the Terry costs $1,100.
Did I mention that many of them use "impossible to find" 24" wheels?

Like this one: www.bscycle.co.jp/products/brands/almiu/AU43T62016/index.html
$400, 24" wheels, for a person over 137 cm ~ 4'5". The frame is ALUMINUM, the weight is 17kg ~ 37lbs. I know aluminum means lightness.
After they ride such a bicycle for a while, they sell it for $20.
I don't know where one can get it for $20, though.

cyccommute 

You really hate the Terry don't you?

Remember my wife has one. I do know a little bit about it. It is not a "racing bike" any more than the Peugeot M46 you like so much was (or is) a "racing bike". If anything, the Peugeot was more likely marketed as a "racing bike" than the Terry.

Do you want to repeat your insulting and sexist remark again just in case there are a couple of women out there who may not have read it? The Terry is a bike. It's built to be ridden. If the woman rides it 5 times a year with husband or 5 times a year with her wife or 150 times a year by herself, it makes no difference. They are riding their bike and it's not your...or my place...to judge whether or not if their bike is worthy.

As a matter of fact, yes, my wife's bike does have a rack. And, yes, it can't take panniers. And, no, her size 5 feet don't touch the bar because they are size 5 feet. I suspect that most women who are petite aren't going to be sporting size 11 tuna boats on the end of their legs. I'm pretty sure they aren't going to be fishing for red herrings either.

Again with the thieves. People will steal any bike. Rattle canning it fluorescent orange probably won't keep them from stealing a bike. Updating an old bike with flashy new components is exactly a good way of camouflaging a bike either.

The "best" commuter bike for a tiny person is one that the tiny person can get their hands on. All of the ones you list below are from Japan. What is thetiniestbike supposed to do, hop on a jet and fly to Japan to buy a bike. That's certainly not the cheapest way to get a bike. It's not like Bridgestone or Panasonic sell bicycles in the US market.

Some 24" tires are easier to find than others. For someone who seems to have a thing for vintage bicycles, I would think you would know that. Do the bikes have 520mm rims, 540mm rims or 547mm rims? All three are called "24 inch" wheels. The 520mm are a bit difficult to find. The 540mm tires are much easier. The 547mm tires are probably the hardest of the bunch to find.

As for weight of the Bridgestone , an aluminum is lighter than a steel frame. However there is a lot of excess stuff hanging off that bike. But at least they seem to be honest about the weight unlike the Peugeot you insist is 24 lbs with all steel parts.

cyccommute 

Fit issues for someone of average height...assuming you are a female...are very different from fit issues that people on the end of the Gaussian curve experience. You, like me, can go to a bike shop (or clothing store or even a car dealer) and pick something off the floor and be reasonably certain that it will fit like it is supposed to. Six inches shorter makes an huge difference. Six inches taller on the other end makes as much of a difference.

Bikes for small people are a very tough nut to crack. Most of the bikes that will fit them are juvenile bikes which are made cheap to sell cheap. The Peugeot juvenile bikes are no different. They are made from heavy cheap parts. A small person has less muscle mass so any extra weight makes the riding harder for them. Nothing kills the joy of bicycling like having to huck 30 to 50% of your body weight to the top of every hill.

For example, I'd need to ride a 66 lb bike everywhere to "enjoy" the same privilege of a 100 lb person riding a 30 lb bike. I bicycle tour and I've ridden that kind of weight but I wouldn't want to do it every. single. time. I went for a ride. A month to a month and a half is bad enough.

CrankyOne

OP seems to have disappeared...

I've gotten workcycles Gr8's (Bakfiets en Meer ŧ Workcycles Fr8 vs. Gr8: What?s the Difference?) for a number of smaller folk and they've been quite happy with them. They come standard as single or multi speed but I know Workcycles have done a least a couple as fixies.

Most Dutch bike manufacturers like Workcycles, Azor, Batavus, and Gazelle also make smaller but high quality bikes intended for younger teens but that work well for petite folks. They are often the same design and quality as full-size bikes but a bit smaller.



They come in a variety of colors:



Even pink:

Barabaika

Linus is quite popular. But it sells Chinese bikes, of course.
https://www.linusbike.com/collections/bikes

https://www.linusbike.com/products/dutchi-8
Small: Fits most riders 4'10" - 5'3"

Here is a nice site to check Dutch-style bikes in action.
https://www.copenhagencyclechic.com/
Why is everybody so slim?



Somebody rides a Terry-style Italian aluminum bike.
It has no fenders, no racks.

thetiniestbike

Haha, no, I've been mostly sitting back and watching. You've all been wonderful, and I've been looking more into vintage bikes, with emphasis on the Terry bikes. I've also found a few Quebec-based companies, Bassi and Marinoni, that look like they may make bikes that will work for me, so I'll probably be looking into test riding a few of those if I can.

thetiniestbike

And weight, in conjunction with the fact that I just can't find one that's an upgrade over my current rides, is a huge part of why I'm not looking at mixtes. I don't mind a little extra weight for short/joy rides, but for something I'm going to be riding every day, I want something that's practical not just because it's resilient, but because it's efficient for my body to get around on.

Darth Lefty 

I know you said no Rivendells, but for what it's worth... my wife's Rivendell, which she got for an amazingly lucky price, is a stepthrough kitted out with 650B wheels and mostly pretty lightweight components, and it's light as a feather for a steel bike. Probably low 20's, though I haven't weighed it. It feels par with my Paramount. Her Acera-level Raleigh is a tank by comparison and it's not just because of the suspension fork.

If you want to be a weight weenie that's a whole other component to bikes as a hobby, getting the most grams off for the dollar. You can go a bit nuts with it, but there are a few high-payoff changes you can make to just about any bike.

Barabaika

I decided to check the weight of my "super heavy" mixte frame.
It's the Nishiki Olympic with Tange tubes.
The frame with the fork weighs 3.7kg - the 0.1kg headset = 3.6kg = 8lb.

A $10,000 carbon or aluminum frame with a fork weighs 1.5kg, a cheaper aluminum racing frame weighs 2.5kg.

I don't know the weight of a Terry frame - I think Terry Bicycles don't make bicycles anymore. Does Georgena Terry have any relation to Terry Bicycles? https://georgenaterry.com/heart-of-steel/

Barabaika

Can you tell us how the bike was stolen?

Was it locked using a strong U-lock like this Kryptonite that weighs 4.55 lb?
New York Fahgettaboudit Mini

Or this cable lock that weighs 2.45lb?
KryptoFlex 1230 Key Cable

Or something that weighs 0.1lb?

Barabaika

Why does this steel Terry bicycle weigh 17.8lb when the aluminum Terry weighs 25lb?
Gale Force | Georgena Terry Touring Bicycle for WomenGeorgena Terry

The frame is similar in dimensions.

Darth Lefty 

Georgena Terry stopped making bicycles the first time when Asian competitors flooded the market for a year or two with similar concept bicycles, and she turned that first business into the one that sells saddles and apparel. Then she sold that business not too long ago and refocused on bikes again. I don't know the story of the 2012 run of mass-manufacture bikes, but the current ones from that website are made to order at Waterford.

The bike you just linked is built up of premium tubing with racing parts and the earlier one is built up with midgrade components. There are weight savings to be had between Tiagra and Ultegra components, and between 20h/24h wheels vs 32h noname wheels, and seat post and saddle and etc. etc. Just the difference between the midgrade triple crank and the Ultegra double might be like half a pound. Like I said earlier, weight weenies

cyccommute 

That's still a significant weight difference, especially when considering a bike for a smaller rider. Add in all steel parts and there is simply no way that a bike with an 8 lb frame and, as I said above, enough steel to build a French battleship can weigh 24 lb.

The Terry that I have suggested was made for Terry in Taiwan to their specifications.

She locked it up improperly but what does that matter. People will steal just about anything and even an old Peugeot mixte that weighs a whole lot more than the Terry would have to be locked with about the same system. That means that lock weight has to be considered as well and a 35 lb bike with a 4 lb lock is an even larger percentage of a small person's body weight.

See below.

Absolutely.

We've made significant modification to my wife's bike to push that weight down even lower, as well as increase the comfort and efficiency of the bike. But even out of the box, the Terry is a great bike for a small person. The Gale Force is also a great bike but the cost is a bit steep...$3900...as compared to a bit over $300 for the Symmetry. Paying that little for a very good bike, leaves a lot of wiggle room to outfit the bike with lots of lightweight components which make it an even better bike for a small lightweight person.

Barabaika

You didn't answer the main question.
Why does Terry build steel bikes while Chinese copies are made of aluminum?

In fact, steel frames is her main selling point.
Her steel Coto Doņana Vagabond weighs 20 lb. It uses mid-range components. https://georgenaterry.com/coto-donana-vagabond/
It looks like any other $500 bike, but you have to pay dearly for a semi-custom bicycle.
It could be an excellent bike for commuting:

• fenders could be easily installed
• front and rear racks can be installed
• wheels are sturdy
• chain stays are long, so panniers can be easily installed too without the heel strike problem

Barabaika

This Terry bike is actually a perfect commuter for a tiny lady.
Did anybody ask for "the best commuter bike"?
WHY CUSTOM | Hand-built Steel Bicycles for Women by Georgena Terry

Though, I can get a never-ridden vintage bike like this for $150 and add all commuter goodies.

corrado33

My friend (who is your height) tours on a surly troll (I'll have to ask her the size she has.) It's a 26" bike with horizontal dropouts (so you can run SS if you want.)

For someone your height, I'd really recommend against a full 700c bike. Terry bikes are great, you can find them on craigslist occasionally.

CrankyOne

Unless you are racing where a few seconds after 140 miles matters then weight is really not much of an issue. If you travel outside of the U.S. you'll see millions of people, from children to 90-year-olds, riding 40lb upright bikes and it's not uncommon to see them riding up a hill with another 15 lbs of groceries in their basket. If you're more feeble than a 90-year-old then perhaps a few ounces makes a difference, otherwise it simply doesn't.

cyccommute 

The Terry Symmetry I linked to is not a "Chinese copy" anymore than any other company's bikes with frames made in China are "Chinese copies". You are just trying to run down what is a pretty good bike for a small person. The bikes were made for the Terry bicycle company to their design specifications. As such they have a number of features that you won't find in other companies "copies" of Georgina Terry's designs. Smaller frames, smaller wheels, cranks proportioned to shorter legs, lighter weight, etc.

Terry builds steel bikes for the same reason that most custom and small manufacturers build steel bikes...because steel is more forgiving and easier to work with when making small numbers of bicycles. It's the same reason that titanium bikes are mostly made by small manufacturers.

Aluminum is easy enough to weld but the frames usually need to be annealed following construction. That means heating and cooling in controlled ovens for fairly long periods. It's too expensive to do on one-off frames and many small builders don't make enough bikes to anneal in batches large enough to be cost effective.


Her bike may look like any other $500 but the bike certainly isn't constructed like a $500 bicycle. First, there aren't too many $500 steel bikes around. Aluminum has a near monopoly on that corner of the market and they certainly do not look like the Coto Doņana Vagabond. Most of the steel bikes that are available...of which there are relatively few...are in the $1200 to $2000 range. The original price and the specifications of the Symmetry put it solidly in that same range.

I'm also reasonable certain that the Coto Doņana isn't made of the same kind of steel as those "$500 [steel] bikes". It's a much higher grade and probably a lot thinner than is found on even the $1200 bikes. It also happens to cost more than twice as much as a $1200 bike. I thought your whole schtick was all about having a bike that was theft proof. Suggesting a nearly $4000 bike is kind of 180° away from that position.

While all of those are good attributes, you seem to be missing the forest for the trees. I have no idea what thetiniestbike's bike budget is. If she has the desire to go the Coto Doņana, more power to her. But most people will balk at spending that much for a bike. The Symmetry I linked to has almost all the same attributes without fenders. But there are work arounds for fenders. Yes, it also has shorter stays but I doubt that a petite person has tuna boats for feet like the ones in your picture. I've met a few small people who had, as my father say, "been taller if they hadn't turned under so much for their feet" but most small people I know have trouble finding shoes small enough. Heel strike just isn't an issue.

The Coto Doņana is a great bike built by a woman who knows how to build bikes for small women. That's not something that many people know how to do. The Symmetry also happens to be a great bike for small women. Not as good as the Coto Doņana but 1/10 the price. While the Coto Doņana is nearly perfect I suspect Symmetry would be good enough for most.

cyccommute 

Your links don't work.

And, while you can get a "never-ridden vintage bike" that looks like the Terry, I doubt you'll find anything that is built like the Terry in vintage bikes. They didn't build them that way. They didn't even build them that small back in the day. I've been fighting the size battle since the 1980 and know a whole lot more about bikes for small people than most.

You might be able to find an old Terry Symmetry...they come on the market from time to time...but I doubt you'll get one for $150.

cyccommute 

Money. Mouth. Put it.

Assuming that you aren't a 100 lb, less than 5' tall woman, I suggest to try an experiment. Go and find a bike that weighs 40% of your body weight. Make sure that a significant amount of that weight is in the wheels. Now add another 15% of your body mass as load. And, because women have about 30% less muscle mass then men, add another 30% just to even things out. If you weigh 200 lb, that means the bike and load would have to weigh in at around 175 lb. Do you really want to ride that heavy a load every day up every hill you encounter?

Most male riders will loudly complain at anything that weighs more than 35 lbs. 20 lb is considered to be a "heavy" bike now. I would love to see women's bikes that are about 10% of their body weight. You'd see a lot more women riding.

Weight matters. No one like riding a heavy bike. Women just don't have much choice in the matter.