lascabezas

Hello, after some time using a Giro Synthe helmet, I have been looking for a new helmet. I wanted a helmet with MIPS protection or similar, like WaveCel etc.

After trying different helmets I found the Kask Mojito 3 to have a perfect fit for me, better than most MIPS helmets I tried, including high ennd models.



So the question is: what´s most important for safety?, fit or Mips features?

Branko D

Fit.

MIPS is a (fractional, overall) improvement, but if I'm not happy with the fit and comfort I wouldn't consider it, myself.

mstateglfr 

This has some potential for great thread entertainment.


A year ago I went down the rabbit hole and bought a dozen+ helmets to find one I like- fit, comfort, look, features. I ended up keeping 2- an ABUS Stormchaser that doesnt have MIPS and a MET Rivale MIPS.
Both are super comfortable for different reasons- the ABUS is the lightest helmet I have ever owned and the MET has plush and solid inner parts.
I have no worry about either when it comes to safety.
The MIPS shell in my MET helmet is cut to stay out of the way of vents and I dont notice the shell at all. If I felt the shell or found the helmet to be hot, I wouldnt use it.

Do you get the same benefit that MIPS offers if you wear a cycling cap under a helmet? MIPS claims a cap moving over one's skull isnt enough. Of course they do though.
Do you get the same benefit that MIPS offers if you have hair? MIPS claims hair and skin moving over one's skull isnt enough. Of course they do though.

The continued default position of industry nerds is 'well I dont know if MIPS actually works, but I know it doesnt hurt things so why not have it'. I get that view and its why I bought the MIPS version of MET's Rivale instead of their non-MIPS version, but its also a really odd resignation to have- just accept something may not work and pay for it.

Take a look at Giro Helios and Giro Aether helmets. They are built as 'ball and socket' helmets where the MIPS tech is not a yellow shell, but instead it is built into the helmet's two shells. Really interesting tech. I tried a Helios and would have kept it, but the chin strap was too short.

Also, if you want to feel like you are in a sweatlodge while riding, buy a Wavecell. Its so heavy you will also feel like you are balancing that sweatlodge atop your head. The magnetic chin strap is cool though.


Hopefully this thread manages to stay here in Road and isnt moved over to A&S. It deserves to be discussed by more than just a few fringe folk that think to visit A&S.

Sy Reene

this is about when someone queues up the Va Tech helmet ratings.

so as to not disappoint: VA Tech Helmet Ratings

Koyote

For me, there is no trade-off: my helmet is a Specialized Prevail MIPS, which fits just as nicely as the other helmets I have bought from that brand. It is also very light and has great ventilation.

Hiro11

Kask makes my favorite helmets overall. I have a Utopia and a Valegro. Great quality, great fit, great ventilation and good looks. They're expensive but to me you're getting what you pay for with Kask. Personally, if the Mojito fits you well and you like it, I would go for that.

The Bell Z20 MIPS has a unique MIPS design that avoids impinging airflow and I can certainly attest that it has terrific ventilation. It's also super comfortable, relatively affordable and is low profile. I like that helmet a lot. I also like Poc's helmets a lot, I have a Tectal Race Spin I use for MTB that's terrific and my friends swear by their road helmets.

Wavecel is absolute garbage: way too hot. Avoid, IMO.

If you look at the (famous? infamous?) VA Tech ratings, helmets with MIPS clearly outperform non-MIPS helmets. There's healthy debate about the validity of VA Tech's testing methodology, I'm no expert so I have no opinion. VA Tech hasn't tested Kask helmets. I know that all Kask helmets sold in the US are beefed up a bit vs. the European-sold models to meet US testing standards. Kask says their helmets easily outperform the European standards.

Bob Ross

LOL! Entertainment indeed. I've been using a Bontrager WaveCel Specter for about two-and-a-half years now, and I simply have no idea what you could be talking about. That helmet is no hotter and not appreciably heavier than any of the Bell, Giro, or Lazer helmets I've owned over the past >15 years.

79pmooney

That one has to choose between MIPS and fit is simply wrong. There is nothing about MIPS that affects fit issues. I have a POC that is the most comfortable piece of headgear I've ever worn. I bought it for the MIPS. If a helmet manufacturer has a model that fits but is not offered in MIPS (or an equivalent system) write them. Even consider telling them you are going to boycott their good fitting helmet until they get on board.

I "tested" the MIPS concept before I knew it existed. Did a hard crash, hitting the side of my helmet at 20+ mph. Loose chinstrap and the helmet spun, nearly taking off my ear and knocking off my glasses and leaving cuts around my eye. But no concussion! (I have a brain that could sit down with an NFL lineman's brain and compare notes. Concussions come very easily. I've gotten them from hard body slams; no head impact.)

mstateglfr 

Its the beauty of preferences, perception, and bias with regard to something like helmets- we can look at the same item and come to different decisions on it's value and quality. This is a wonderful time in cycling because there are so many great options available at similar price points, we each can figure out what we find value in.

A Specter Wavecell in my size weighs 380g. My Abus Stormchaser weighs 232g and my MET Rivale MIPS weighs 270g.
A Specter Wavecell weighs 5.5oz more than my Abus and I can for sure feel it. Maybe it isnt the actual weight as much as how/where it is placed? All I know is that it is noticeable.
I used a Specter Wavecell for a day ride and it felt hot. Maybe it was the directions I happened to ride in that day and I was running warmer than usual?...or maybe it doesnt vent the greatest? Either way, I couldnt feel wind thru the vents.
To be clear, I love the boa system and the fidlock on the Specter. Those two bits of tech are really nice.
My neck just isnt strong enough to hold the helmet up. <--I kid.

Branko D

My favourite helmet is a MET Trenta CF which is ridiculously light at 215 grams and basically I don't notice I'm wearing it, neatly encases my head with no extra bulk, well ventilated for our hot summers (it helps it's in white, or so I imagine). I've used heavier helmets with less ventilation and frankly I notice the difference. So, it's a factor.



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Hiro11

Personally I found the Specter Wavecel to be intolerably hot on any slightly warm day, there seems to be little air movement through the helmet. It's just about the hottest helmet I've ever used, a real deal-killer. Also, the straps annoyingly would not hold tension and loosened repeatedly on rides. On the upside, it's fine on cool days, I found it to be a comfortably fitting helmet and the magnetic buckle works well. Still, I basically never use mine...

jaxgtr

I live in the Southeast, not known for being cool in the summer, but yep, it's all the individual users perception. I have generally always used Bell helmets, they fit by goofy shaped head the best. Although, I have tried numerous brands over the years, I typically go back to Bell, pay the extra bucks for the lightest helmet with the best cooling, but this go round, when I was looking for something new, I decided to try the Bontrager Spectre WaveCel, and have used it for over a year now and I never found it to heat my head anymore or less than any of the other helmets I have used. I agree it is heavier, but not enough for me to really complain about it. I would buy it again based on my experiences.

Iride01 

By all means you want it to fit you comfortably. MIPs or not. I agree that MIPs is only a fractional improvement. Some helmets that aren't MIPs or wavecell always show highly in the testing and many that are MIPs or wavecell also show poorly in the testing.

However MIPs probably isn't the reason your helmet didn't fit comfortably for you. It's just that helmet model wasn't made to fit your head.

JohnJ80

There are sooooo many helmets with Mips or equivalent tech that I'd keep looking until I found one that fit perfectly. I wouldn't buy a helmet without it. We've been down this road with a severe TBI in the family. If you dig into the research on this, even a small decrease in the acceleration the brain experiences can lead to very significant benefit. The damage is very nonlinear with respect to acceleration.

J.

chaadster

Yeah, MIPS is awesome, proven tech, and I prefer having the extra security. I do also have some older, standard helmets which I will use occasionally, but I certainly wouldn’t buy a new helmet without MIPS.

ChamoisDavisJr

Love to see the debate on test validity. Who’s the main group bringing it forth? Is there another organization that tests helmets?

Hiro11

There's a ton of stuff out there. I think there's increasing agreement that current standards and testing protocols are at best incomplete in measuring the effectiveness of a helmet in preventing injury. It's great to see the increased focus on real-world safety in bike helmets.

This podcast episode with the head of Kali Protective. This is dry material, but it gives good insight into the limitations of standardized helmet testing and the various pluses and minuses of the tests and standards used: https://cyclingtips.com/2020/04/nerd...nd-chain-lube/

Bicycling Magazine recently published an article on this meta study in Biomedical Engineering on the topic:
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles...21.718407/full
This is a statistical review of 148 different drop test studies. The authors point out that results can vary widely due to the lack of standardization in helmet testing (one example: many tests don't use a "neck surrogate" and as a result may not accurately model real world impacts). Also they show that while rotational impact mitigation systems like MIPS seem to really work, the various tests and standards used render a consumer's ability to compare the actual performance of helmets very difficult.

SoSmellyAir

I wish I can contribute to this debate but I have a giant round noggin that only the original Kask Mojito in XL fits; Kask does not do MIPS.

I have also tried several Giro helmets in XL but they do not fit well because they are too long (front to back) for a given head diameter.

jnbrown

I did some research on this when looking for a new helmet.
There is no good evidence behind MIPS, not even statistics of actual accident outcomes.
One study with a crash dummy head, that is it.
I am not against MIPs and it may help but would not base a purchasing decision on it.
In the end I am sticking with my old Bell Gage helmet for now.

MoAlpha

As a neurologist who has spent a career in clinical research, including some on TBI patients, and who has personal experience of a concussion from a hit and run, I agree with almost all of the above. The benefits of MIPS and Wavecell (yes, too hot!) are based on bench simulations and therefore theoretical. For obvious reasons, they will never be tested in a way which will yield a really good answer, i.e., head to head (as it were), in a prospective, randomized trial, against conventional helmets or even in a mechanistic study in primates. And no: I don't think anyone is ever going to do a retrospective study of crash victims good enough to show mitigation of injury by any subset of helmets.

That said, I use MIPS helmets because it looks like a good idea, based on what I know.

TiHabanero

79pmooney, you bring up an interesting observation. " Did a hard crash, hitting the side of my helmet at 20+ mph. Loose chinstrap and the helmet spun, nearly taking off my ear and knocking off my glasses and leaving cuts around my eye."

I have noticed in slow motion videos of bike crashes the head moves inside the helmet every time. Does this negate MIPS and other systems like it? If the helmet bites the pavement and the head keeps traveling without stopping, does MIPS actually work or is it prevented from working properly?

My personal experience has been that every helmet I have used moves about the head quite freely unless strapped down tight, which is not practical when riding.

MoAlpha

The theory, based on some pretty good but disturbing baboon studies, is that the rotational deceleration forces are what causes brain injury in vehicle crashes. MIPS is meant to reduce deceleration by allowing the head to move more. I assume the designers allowed for additional slippage.

sdimattia

Funny, I used to use a Giro Synthe MIPS before I switched to a Kask Mojito X for a better fit. It was the Kask Mojito that saved my skull when I went over the handlebars and crashed at 25mph. Helmet cracked in 5 places and I road home with a minor concussion and some road rash. I doubt the Giro could've done better. Replaced my Kask with a new one as soon a I got home.

A poorly fitting helmet is certainly worse than a proper fitting one. As far as the safety of a non-MIPS helmet, I'll vouch for the Kask on this one.

chaadster

That’s one of the most ridiculous testaments I’ve ever heard. You had a concussion, but doubt a helmet tech specifically designed and implemented to prevent such injury could have done better?? Brilliant…

sdimattia

I'll take a minor concussion over a cracked skull any day. The helmet did its job as far as I'm concerned.

I don't doubt the technology offers some improvement but I wouldn't advocate the OP to expect it to work if the helmet using such technology doesn't even fit their head properly (hence my last sentence). MIPS tech doesn't prevent concussions, it only decreases the chance of one happening. And still people get them wearing MIPS helmets.