mschwett 

i think i stated it very clearly:

most roads i ride on are like this: a car can safely pass one bike without endangering the cyclist or a cyclist or car in the oncoming lane. two cyclists next to each other, which serves no purpose on a road like this other than being able to talk, as far as i can tell, forces the passing cars into the oncoming lane.

i typically ride alone but when i ride with my daughter, her instinct is to ride next to me to chat, and it absolutely 100% produces FAR more car conflict. but she's 10 years old. so i just remind her that what she's doing is dangerous.

maybe we ride on really different roads or something. in case this is somehow not clear, here's an actual road, ridden on most all my longer rides, which many in the bay area will be familiar with:

Bald Paul

If two cyclists riding side by side "force car into oncoming car or cyclist to pass", then it's obvious that it isn't safe to pass to begin with. The driver of the car is putting the cyclists, other drivers, and himself in danger.

I usually ride FRAP, unless I am aware of a vehicle approaching from behind while one is coming in the opposite lane. Then, I will move LEFT a bit to take the lane and prevent the driver from attempting to squeeze by me. If my state adopted the "3 feet" law, this wouldn't be necessary (legally) although I would still do it for my own safety. Just imagine a car coming downhill, attempting to pass a slower, solo cyclist riding FRAP. He would force the car "sharing your lane" to swing right. Where do you go now?

mschwett 

agreed, I’m not defending the passing car at all in that case. their impatience doesn’t justify an unsafe pass. but the unsafe pass wouldn’t be necessary if the uphill cyclists were both in the shoulder / bike lane.

your downhill pass example is interesting, but i’ve never actually seen it happen in the many, many, many times I’ve ridden this road and dozens like it. when the road is such that cars go way faster than bikes downhill, they put shoulders/bike lanes on both sides, or none at all and the road is just unsafe AF for bikes period.

BlazingPedals

Wouldn't 75 cars on the same stretch of road ball things up, too? This starts to sound like a C&V discussion on who has more rights on the road.

jon c. 

We do indeed ride on very different roads. With shoulders like that, I completely agree. My apologies for glossing over that part when I read it.

My roads have no shoulder. Not infrequently the white line is grown over with grass in some places and broken away from the road in others. And if the county hasn't had the mowers out in a while, you can get long grasses that hang out over the edge of the road. A bit painful if you catch you ankles on that stuff. So even a solo rider has to be over a foot off the edge.