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28c, 30c, or 32c tubeless tires?

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28c, 30c, or 32c tubeless tires?

Old 02-08-18, 03:51 PM
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28c, 30c, or 32c tubeless tires?

Looking to get some larger road tires for my Grade and want something that has some volume. I've never been on anything that big so I don't know any good or bad about them.

Thoughts and opinions are welcomed.

Thanks.
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Old 02-08-18, 03:56 PM
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I think in general, the more volume the better. Wider tires actually reduce rolling resistance at the same psi over narrower tires. However, not all tires are the same. Casing compliance, tread compound, tread pattern etc all play a roll.

For what it's worth I ride compliant, slick 32s on my single speed gravel bike at 80 psi. They're plenty fast. I ride slightly knobby tubeless 50s with stiff sidewalls at 35 psi on my geared gravel bike, they are significantly slower (but ridiculously plush).
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Old 02-08-18, 07:30 PM
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Try some out. I would bet that the tire construction is going to have more impact than the volume within that 4mm window that you mention.

FWIW, I enjoy the hell out of Schwalbe G-One Speeds (previously known as the S-One). 30mm, supple and roll well. Fairly lightweight, they don't feel like a chore to spin up. I typically run them at about 65f/70r (I'm not small - about 195lbs), which works wonders on poor road surfaces.
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Old 02-08-18, 10:02 PM
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IRC makes great 28 mm tubeless tires.
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Old 02-08-18, 10:04 PM
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Try as wide as you can run, experiment with pressures, see if you like it.
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Old 02-09-18, 09:16 AM
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Im getting a new gravel bike, comes with tubeless, I want to add another set of wheels with slick tires for road riding, seems to make sense to stay tubeless, so I've been researching this was well. Was figuring on 28s but now I'm leaning to 32s for more volume/lower pressure. Seems there are some issues with high pressure tubeless staying on the rims. I ran across this article the other day:

https://https://janheine.wordpress.com/2017/05/29/the-trouble-with-road-tubeless/

Anyone here had any problems with tubeless road tires coming off the rim? I am completely new to tubeless.

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Old 02-09-18, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by jimincalif View Post
Anyone here had any problems with tubeless road tires coming off the rim? I am completely new to tubeless.
Never had an issue. If anything, the higher the pressure, the less trouble the tire. Have put 3,000+ miles on Giant Gavia SL road tubeless since I got the Cervelo in August. I run 90/90 for pressure, every single day. Wife has been on Hutchinson Fusion 3 for almost a year. We're both on essentially identical Shimano rims (old skool 15mm internal width.)

On the Ritchey, I have well past 15,000 miles on Maxxis Refuse TR, running 70/70 on 20mm internal wheels. Have recently switched to 700x35 Hutchinson Overides, which I have too few miles on to enthusiastically endorse. They're great so far, but the absolute garbage that are Schwalbe Ones were great for the first two weeks as well. The Overides are outrageously capable on and off road, and i have zero complaints about their performance, but durability/longevity has yet to be determined.

Related: I guess the non-tubeless advocates can finally at least shut up about tubeless tires being too expensive. The Gavias cost about $10 each less than GP4000s, the Maxxis are cheaper than any comparable 700x32 of 60tpi or better, and my tubeless Overides cost the same per tire as my tubed Gravelking SKs.

Last note: if Giant made a Gavia 700x28, I'd be in heaven. But with 700x25 I'm not complaining for sub-$40 a tire.
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Old 02-09-18, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
IRC makes great 28 mm tubeless tires.
+1
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Old 02-09-18, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by jimincalif View Post
Im getting a new gravel bike, comes with tubeless, I want to add another set of wheels with slick tires for road riding, seems to make sense to stay tubeless, so I've been researching this was well. Was figuring on 28s but now I'm leaning to 32s for more volume/lower pressure. Seems there are some issues with high pressure tubeless staying on the rims. I ran across this article the other day:

https://https://janheine.wordpress.co...road-tubeless/

Anyone here had any problems with tubeless road tires coming off the rim? I am completely new to tubeless.
Can't connect to the host of that linked blog. What's the gist of the problem? Tubeless can be such a ***** to get mounted precisely because of the tight tolerances involved, so a tire coming off of its own accord isn't a concern to me. Some tubeless rims and/or tires may have a significantly lower max pressure than is typical in the road cycling world, which could be problematic if you don't RTFM and over-inflate, but other than that, I can't think of anything too concerning.
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Old 02-09-18, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Can't connect to the host of that linked blog. What's the gist of the problem? Tubeless can be such a ***** to get mounted precisely because of the tight tolerances involved, so a tire coming off of its own accord isn't a concern to me. Some tubeless rims and/or tires may have a significantly lower max pressure than is typical in the road cycling world, which could be problematic if you don't RTFM and over-inflate, but other than that, I can't think of anything too concerning.
Looks like I blew it pasting the link, I fixed it in my original post above. Here is the money quote:

Based on this experience, we recommend: Do not exceed 60 psi (4 bar) when running Compass tires tubeless. If you need higher pressures, please use tubes. Since the problems with running tubeless tires at high pressures are not limited to Compass tires, Id recommend this for all tubeless tires and especially for high-performance tires that are relatively supple.
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Old 02-09-18, 10:03 AM
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Above a certain width, I'd reckon that to be true-- I had a 700x38 Gravelking set up tubeless detonate @ 57psi-- and if memory serves, Compass are just rebadged tires from Panaracer. Panaracer replaced it without issue, but it will be tubed for future use. By comparison, the sidewall of the 700x35 Overide says "Min pressure 45psi Max pressure 87psi." For mixed road/dirt days, I run them at 60psi, so I'm not particularly worried about them blowing up on me.
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Old 02-09-18, 10:12 AM
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The ONLY downside to wider tires is the weight.

They get real porky real fast.

If the weight penalty were less, I'd be putting 35's on my crux. But with the weights where they are, I'm hesitant to go over 28/32.
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Old 02-09-18, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by jimincalif View Post
Looks like I blew it pasting the link, I fixed it in my original post above. Here is the money quote:
Okay, to me, that issue falls within the RTFM category that I'd mentioned previously. There are plenty of tires that support higher pressures if that's what you're looking for.
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Old 02-09-18, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by jimincalif View Post
Looks like I blew it pasting the link, I fixed it in my original post above. Here is the money quote:
Okay, I followed the link to understand the context of the quote that you pulled. Conclusion: so much utter ridiculousness.

They couldn't blow a 35mm tire off at its 90psi max (a figure that no one in their right mind would approach IRL), but they were able to make it fail at 120. Despite this, they never experience any real-word failures, typically running them at a reasonable 60psi, so they decided to make that their blanket recommendation, encompassing all of tubeless, even from other manufacturers and even 25mm tires designed (by necessity) to run at much higher pressures. Pure, unadulterated bs.

Last edited by WhyFi; 02-09-18 at 10:45 AM.
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Old 02-09-18, 11:34 AM
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Thanks @WhyFi and @DrIsotope, this discussion is helpful.

I'm working backwards from my weight (205#) plus figure the bike with saddle bag and full bottles in the low to mid 20s. So 230# all up. Looking at the Bicycle Quarterly tire/pressure graph for a 15% tire drop assuming a 40/60 F/R weight distribution my rear wheel carries 138# or 62.7 kg. From their chart 28/32/37 tires would require about 105/82/61 psi respectively. Interpolating for a 30mm tire would give me about 92 psi.

Now the date of the BQ article is 2006, maybe they were testing with narrow 14/19mm rims instead of 23 to 25mm (external) rims. so more volume with wider rims = less pressure needed. The article just says they were tested with rims "appropriate" for the tire width, whatever that means. Also they were no doubt testing tubed tires, they don't say, but it's clear they are testing clinchers from the cross-section picture included in the article.

I read a lot of references to how low people are running tubeless tires with no adverse impact on rolling resistance. Maybe real-world experience with tubeless renders the BQ analysis obsolete? It's a paradigm shift for me, routinely running 95/115 in my Conti 4000s.

Edit - I just noticed that Jan Heine is the author of the BQ tire pressure article as well as the linked blog post above.

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Old 02-09-18, 08:48 PM
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Thanks all. 28c are probably plenty good for the road and likely just about anything for that matter. I currently have 36c Clements on it for the dirt, but will be doing shipping to bike to Houston in April for the MS150 ride and will be putting road tires on it. Agreed that they get pretty porky real quick the bigger you go.
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Old 02-10-18, 08:14 AM
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I have bikes with 28s and 32s. The frames are quite different, probably accounting for a lot of the ride feel. That said, both ride well. If I ever wear out the 28s, I'll likely go to the bigger tire on that bike just to cut down on the need for different size stuff...the frame will handle >38s.
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Old 02-10-18, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Stormsedge View Post
I have bikes with 28s and 32s. The frames are quite different, probably accounting for a lot of the ride feel. That said, both ride well. If I ever wear out the 28s, I'll likely go to the bigger tire on that bike just to cut down on the need for different size stuff...the frame will handle >38s.
I like your idea, just going bigger. I train and race on the Pro One tubeless and they are awesome however, even though they make them in a 28c, I think I'd want something a bit more durable.

I've never had Hutchinson, but have heard great things about the Sector in both the 28c and 32c. Anyone here use the Hutchinson and like to comment?
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