brake caliper suggestions?
#26
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Single pivot - Shimano BR-6400. If I remember correctly, there were short reach and long reach versions (49mm and 57mm max). They have additional sleeves in the brake holder bolt slots and these might have to be removed before installing some brake holders / pads. Very good, personally I think they are not worse than any dual pivot brakes I used (Shimano BR-1055, various Tektro. Miche Performance ). I have the long reach ones and use them with Kool Stop Dura 2. Oh, I don't use aero levers, but they will be compatible with Shimano ones you have.
Dual pivot - Miche Performance brakes are quite nice and look alright too. In my opinion they are either made by Tektro for Miche or Miche makes them based on Tektro design and perhaps license. They are long reach as well. Tektro brakes are quite alright as well (don't remember which model I used) - these are not too pricey. With Tektro, you will find something with any reach you might need. Shimano makes some budget dual pivot brakes (historically, RX100 grup, was it?) which are also longer reach.
Centre pull - Weinmann Vainqueur. Fantastic brakes, easy to find, not too bad to restore and will stop you on a penny. Disclaimer: no idea whether they are compatible with aero levers and also, I use them with KoolStop Dura 2. I guess they will be alright with any modern compound. These also don't come with recessed nut mounting, though it's possible to use them on a frame prepared for this standard (you need some sort of sleeve that would fit around the bolt and inside the mounting hole)
Dual pivot - Miche Performance brakes are quite nice and look alright too. In my opinion they are either made by Tektro for Miche or Miche makes them based on Tektro design and perhaps license. They are long reach as well. Tektro brakes are quite alright as well (don't remember which model I used) - these are not too pricey. With Tektro, you will find something with any reach you might need. Shimano makes some budget dual pivot brakes (historically, RX100 grup, was it?) which are also longer reach.
Centre pull - Weinmann Vainqueur. Fantastic brakes, easy to find, not too bad to restore and will stop you on a penny. Disclaimer: no idea whether they are compatible with aero levers and also, I use them with KoolStop Dura 2. I guess they will be alright with any modern compound. These also don't come with recessed nut mounting, though it's possible to use them on a frame prepared for this standard (you need some sort of sleeve that would fit around the bolt and inside the mounting hole)
#27
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I switched from dual pivots to BR-6400 and actually preferred the single pivot ones. These are waiting in a box for the next build now and I've currently switched to centre pull. Also no regrets. My conclusion after daily use is that centre pulls are probably the best in terms of stopping power though BR-6400 aren't far behind and seem to feel a bit nicer (and are lighter as well)
#28
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I switched from dual pivots to BR-6400 and actually preferred the single pivot ones. These are waiting in a box for the next build now and I've currently switched to centre pull. Also no regrets. My conclusion after daily use is that centre pulls are probably the best in terms of stopping power though BR-6400 aren't far behind and seem to feel a bit nicer (and are lighter as well)
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Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
#29
feros ferio
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I just don't understand this at all.
I've never had trouble with Campagnolo Nuovo Record brakes. They stop the bike. They are easy to modulate if you want to slow or decrease your rate of acceleration. I can operate them from the drops or the tops.
Go back to the original Campagnolo levers and ditch the aero cable routing and levers.
P.S. - that rear cable routing does not look right.
I've never had trouble with Campagnolo Nuovo Record brakes. They stop the bike. They are easy to modulate if you want to slow or decrease your rate of acceleration. I can operate them from the drops or the tops.
Go back to the original Campagnolo levers and ditch the aero cable routing and levers.
P.S. - that rear cable routing does not look right.
Please explain your closing sentence about the rear brake cable. The guides are along the top of the top tube, the housing curves smoothly down to meet the rear caliper, and I have just enough loop in front to accommodate lock-to-lock steering.
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"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
#31
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I have a set of the Dia Compe BRS 100 dual pivots on a bike with Microshift brifters. Short fingers also. Plenty of stopping power from the hoods with 2-3 fingers on the top of the lever below the hinge/pivot. Not much effort required, even from that position. Easy on the eyes as well. The link has a reach chart for the various models.
https://www.diacompe.com.tw/product/brs100/
https://www.diacompe.com.tw/product/brs100/
Last edited by seypat; 06-08-22 at 07:47 PM.
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#32
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On my own bike I try to make the housing as short as practicable, allowing for smooth, direct curves to the brake caliper, and enough up front to turn the bars.
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There are also BR-1050 which seem very similar, but haven't tried them.
If you need dual pivots, Shimano BR-1055 are also very good and come with 49 and 57mm reach. There are also BR-6403, which I had at some point and they seem alright, though the reach was too short for my bicycle, so they had to go. These are used components (which I generally prefer), their availability may vary. If you need something quick and without breaking the bank, Miche Performance would be my next choice. Good reach (41-57mm) for older and newer frames, good clearance for mudguards. These are definitely heavier than Shimano BR-6400 and BR-1055.
I should be testing Weinmann 605 with modern pads in a week or so, but these are pre-aero levers, so probably wouldn't work that great.
#34
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Thank you, everyone. It looks like we have consensus. I'm going brake caliper shopping. I had a scary experience with Shimano pads on the Campag. calipers (actually keep creeping forward with brakes full-on during a descent under foggy conditions), but KoolStop pads on Shimano calipers should be a much different story.
Dual pivots of any brand or model level will be way stronger than any single pivot side pull. And then the Koolstop salmon pads to avoid galling the heck out of the rims plus give you more stopping power for the same pull on top of that. The combo of dual pivots plus KS salmon's will feel magical.
The fancier the model level of the calipers might save you a few grams and at the same time MIGHT feel slightly firmer. But mostly the grams saved will be at the expense of grams removed from your wallet too....
#35
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If commuting in sloppy conditions or trail riding the anodized rims are soon converted to "machined" in any event....
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I have Weinmann 605s on my Moto Grand Record and I was shocked (in a good way) by their performance with Kool Stop pads. Much better than I expected from knockoff Campy Record sidepulls. I’d even say they are superior to their inspiration. I’m using them with the original drilled Weinmann levers.
#38
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Does anyone have experience or feedback on the Campagnolo Veloce dual pivots that seem to be widely available? I would imagine the tech was probably perfected by the time this feature came down to the lower-tier gruppo.
#39
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Panzerwagon, my findings were that any dual pivot at any level is better than single pivot types at least for power. Now as for wear and lifespan and how easy it is to center up the arms? That's another story. But at the time I got them the Tektro's were the cheapest of the cheap duals. If they were a touch more difficult to set up then it wasn't anything that I noticed. The changeover in both cases for me went very easily. And the upgrade put a serious smile on my face.
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Big fan of the 6500 brakes here. I use them with BL-R400 levers and Ultegra pad sets. Just outstanding. And I'll say that while I am a big fan of Kool Stop products and own several, the upper-level Shimano pads are easily just as good. Those lower level, molded one piece Shimano pads aren't that good.
Also have a Sora R3000 set that I upgraded to Ultegra pads. Also outstanding brakes.
And then there's the Campagnolo Veloce dual pivots on my Cannondale. I believe I may have Ultegra pads on those too. Also outstanding.
These are all on machined sidewall rims.
Also have a Sora R3000 set that I upgraded to Ultegra pads. Also outstanding brakes.
And then there's the Campagnolo Veloce dual pivots on my Cannondale. I believe I may have Ultegra pads on those too. Also outstanding.
These are all on machined sidewall rims.
#41
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The reach on the levers is simply too long for me to grab quickly and firmly in a panic stop.
Please explain your closing sentence about the rear brake cable. The guides are along the top of the top tube, the housing curves smoothly down to meet the rear caliper, and I have just enough loop in front to accommodate lock-to-lock steering.
Please explain your closing sentence about the rear brake cable. The guides are along the top of the top tube, the housing curves smoothly down to meet the rear caliper, and I have just enough loop in front to accommodate lock-to-lock steering.
In thinking about this thread, I knew it had to be a hand size/reach problem. At least, that was all I could come up with. I have big hands, so it's not an issue for me.
In the photo, the cable looks wavy along the top tube. Then it ducks down to the rear brake very quickly and enters the caliper at a fairly steep angle. I'm thinking not enough housing (too tight) and friction. I'm sure you are in a better position than I to assess this.
Last edited by Bad Lag; 06-09-22 at 08:29 PM.
#42
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Dual pivots are designed to work best with aero levers.
Single pivots work best with non aero levers.
Neither generation of engineers where illiterate.
The cable entry changed so the caliper had to as well.
But there was also a crossover period when it got messy.
People have been using levers since the same time they figured out how to shade the Sun from there eyes. And there is nothing new.
All brake systems are designed to a price and rider type.
Some just to save money. As an example a kids bike where the clamp is one piece and the clamp bolt must go between the lever and the handlebar.
That moves the lever further away. Not ideal in my mind but it was cheaper if less effective. But a design engineers thought good enough.
In the old days the clamp was two pieces and the clamp bolt was behind the handle bar and the lever could now be closer to the bar and still pull enough
Use matched levers and calipers with good pads and clean rims set up for your hand size and speed. That's the best combo.
Single pivots work best with non aero levers.
Neither generation of engineers where illiterate.
The cable entry changed so the caliper had to as well.
But there was also a crossover period when it got messy.
People have been using levers since the same time they figured out how to shade the Sun from there eyes. And there is nothing new.
All brake systems are designed to a price and rider type.
Some just to save money. As an example a kids bike where the clamp is one piece and the clamp bolt must go between the lever and the handlebar.
That moves the lever further away. Not ideal in my mind but it was cheaper if less effective. But a design engineers thought good enough.
In the old days the clamp was two pieces and the clamp bolt was behind the handle bar and the lever could now be closer to the bar and still pull enough
Use matched levers and calipers with good pads and clean rims set up for your hand size and speed. That's the best combo.
#43
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I have Weinmann 605s on my Moto Grand Record and I was shocked (in a good way) by their performance with Kool Stop pads. Much better than I expected from knockoff Campy Record sidepulls. I’d even say they are superior to their inspiration. I’m using them with the original drilled Weinmann levers.
#44
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Campy's brifters have the quick release piece (the nub on the lever). You can mess with using the barrel adjuster and use an inline cable adjuster and get pretty decent results, but if you are not using Campy levers with quick release, you are better off with the Shimanos (I like the 6400 version and 6500 versions of Ultegra).
You can also pair the Campy's with the very good Tektro levers...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/22368897219...EaAvOzEALw_wcB
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#45
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Thank you, everyone. It looks like we have consensus. I'm going brake caliper shopping. I had a scary experience with Shimano pads on the Campag. calipers (actually keep creeping forward with brakes full-on during a descent under foggy conditions), but KoolStop pads on Shimano calipers should be a much different story.
#46
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Because I'm still on the pads for Weinmann 605 conundrum, Campagnolo and Shimano use different standard holders and inserts (which I found out by buying campy ones by accident and then having almost no clearance between them and the rim after installation). Campy ones are more chunky - go nearer the rim, with Shimano ones there is more of a gap between the rim and the pad on the same calipers. If you had Campagnolo calipers, Shimano pads will just not make full contact with the rim.
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Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
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Thank you, everyone. It looks like we have consensus. I'm going brake caliper shopping. I had a scary experience with Shimano pads on the Campag. calipers (actually keep creeping forward with brakes full-on during a descent under foggy conditions), but KoolStop pads on Shimano calipers should be a much different story.
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I have Weinmann 605s on my Moto Grand Record and I was shocked (in a good way) by their performance with Kool Stop pads. Much better than I expected from knockoff Campy Record sidepulls. I’d even say they are superior to their inspiration. I’m using them with the original drilled Weinmann levers.
#49
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I have 605's I picked up on ebay probably 10+ years ago for my '72 Bottecchia which I'm trying to get back up and running. Original center pulls went MIA. I would like to replace the old pads and the Kool Stop pads look like a good way to go. Did you use the Weinmann X replacement pads and if so are they hard to install? My metal pad holders are closed on both ends. Been enjoying and learning a lot here and appreciate whatever help I can get.
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Are you using original pad holders or some modern ones? I'm thinking what to fit right now. I do have some vintage holders and Scott Malthausen pads, but these holders don't seem to be very firm (I do have the tyre guides). So now I'm thinking about going with Shimano style holders and pads.