LarryMelman

I am a weekend club level cyclist. A C-level rider, maybe a B for a few miles on a very good day. I ride about 3000 miles a year. I maintain things when truly needed, not on a regular schedule. For example, my current wheels are low-end Reynolds alloy bought in 2015, the hubs/bearings have never been maintained, and the freehub body serviced only twice. There's nothing wrong with them at all except being almost 8 years old. It's been suggested that I grab a pair of these DTSwiss P1800 wheels with 370 hubs, that the difference would be noticeable. They are about 1600g, comparable to the Reynolds.
https://www.merlincycles.com/en-us/d...0c-108397.html

Not being in an urgent hurry, I spent the last week learning all about DT Swiss and I think this is what I think:

+ A really really good deal.
+ Sooner or later, if I keep this bike, I will need new wheels. Maybe 10 years from now, who knows.
+ Rim brake wheels are getting harder and harder to find.
+ Good quality and support/parts availabilty.

- In 2022, the 370 was upgraded to use the star-ratchet system that their better hubs use, however DT Swiss says they haven't yet used it in any road wheels. So these wheels have the 370 with the old 3-pawl freehub. Should I care about that? Is it "good enough" or are there reliability/service issues with it?
- Possibly very very loud.

For $100 more, Merlin has the next step up, the PR1600 wheel with the 350 hub using the star-ratchet system. Again probably the older 350 before the recent minor update. The star-ratchet is said to be much better (is that true in a way that I would actually notice?), however some online say that it must be taken apart once or twice a year and the ratchets cleaned and greased. Is that really really true?

If you have experience with any of this stuff, I would like to hear from you.

force10

If you’re going to keep the bike and wheels for 10 years, the extra $10/year for the 350’s is a no brainer.

tFUnK

I saw this thread in the other forum and refrained from commenting because there really wasn't much to say: it's a quality wheel at a good price. You've done more research than most with respect to the hub question; I just knew the 350 was lighter than the 240 240 was lighter and most people perhaps feel it's not enough to justify the cost difference.

With so many people going disc and/or carbon, there's probably just not a lot of enthusiasm or strong opinion about a standard alloy clincher wheelset.

If I were in the market for an alloy rim brake wheelset I'd think these would be a fine choice. However at 1600g my enthusiasm is dampened a bit as I think <1500g is what I'd ideally want.

LarryMelman

Do they really need to be disassembled and cleaned and greased twice a year? Even if it's easy, I can't see myself doing it. I made the mistake a few years ago of buying a low-end set of Mavic wheels in which the freehub bushing had to be lubed every 2000 miles or so, or it would squeal like a little girl. I don't want to make that mistake again.

TiHabanero

My recommendation is spend the extra 100 bucks and get the wheels with the 350 hubs. I have been using them for 3 seasons and are simply the best hub I have used. I am so convinced of this that I put my son on a set of 350 hubs. He is a 245 pound sprinter and was blowing out pawls within a year on everything he tried. 2.5 seasons in and the 350 hubs are going strong.
As for maintenance, if you are mountain biking I strongly recommend cleaning and greasing the ratchet once or twice a season. It is smart preventative maintenance and super super super easy to do. On my road bike after the first season I took the ratchet apart and it was clean as a whistle. Only rode in the rain twice, however there was no dirt or water in there. I took it apart last season and again it was clean as a whistle. I greased it anyway both times as why not since it is apart. Again, it is incredibly simple to do and takes but a few minutes to complete the task.

Koyote

I'm sure this is just a typo, but the 240s is the lighter hubset.

I haven't touched my DTS 350 hubs in four years/13k+ miles and they are running perfectly.

Craptacular8

I've built up a couple wheelsets with the DT 350 hubs. They are lovely wheels. I probably opted for a little lighter weight rim, and spokes than the set you reference, since these were for disk brake bikes, but otherwise, similar. I think, these were a little less freely spinning bearing in the first 100 or so miles than other premium hubs, but after those initial miles, they have been everything you'd want in a wheel. I've done no service in them, though the one bike only has 1500 miles on it. Think they used to be a little noisier, but I don't hear them at all any more. Like the hubs, no complaints.

bampilot06

I’ve been eye balling those for one of my bikes for a while now, but honestly would prolly go Campy Zonda or the next one down. Campy Scirocco. About the same price and lighter. Just my 2 cents.

Lombard

Anything by DT Swiss is better than anything by Mavic.

Requiring a freehub bushing lube every 2000 miles is ridiculous.

1600g for an alloy set at that price is pretty damn good. If you really need something lighter than that, these are a great bang for the buck:

https://bicyclewheelwarehouse.com/Ro...Wheel-Set.html

cb400bill

Merged duplicate threads.

msu2001la

I doubt there are many people out there disassembling and servicing their hubs twice a year. I know people who have DT 350 hubs and they can barely be bothered to clean their bikes and lube their chains, so there's no way they're doing this, and to my knowledge they have no problems.

If I were you I'd go with the 350 hubs. That said, I don't think these wheels would provide any noticeable upgrade from what you have now.

Lombard

My only objection to DT Swiss hubs is they have an alloy freehub. For strong or heavy riders, they can be gouged by your cassette and good luck removing that sucker.

TiHabanero

The DT 350 hub uses a steel cassette body, at least up to 2020 they did. Maybe they changed it, but maybe they didn't.

LarryMelman

My Reynolds wheels have an alloy freehub and it was quite gouged up when I removed the cassette recently. Pics here: https://www.bikeforums.net/22786884-post4.html
A couple light taps from behind loosened it up pretty easily.

LarryMelman

I can't really see how they would either. A tech with no dog in the fight said that the 2012 vintage Reynolds Solitude SE's I'm on now are (his words) like a Yugo and the DT Swiss P1800 would be like a Mustang. But they are comparable weight and they are both... well.. round.

I'm viewing them as more of an investment for when the Reynolds wear out somehow. Whenever that might happen. If they ever did. And if I was not wanting or needing to buy a new bike when that happened.

Lombard

Good to know! Most of their other hubs have had an alloy cassette body for quite some time. I was of the impression that the only hubs that didn't have an alloy cassette body are Shimano and White Industries. Granted there are a few hubs that have alloy with "anti-bite" splines.

LarryMelman

For the current 350,
https://www.dtswiss.com/en/component.../hubs-road/350
says the freehub body is

Shim. RD. 11SP Light (ASL11)

Milled aluminum freehub body for Shimano 11-speed road cassettes.

LV2TNDM

True. However, servicing the ratchets on DT/Swiss hubs is nothing like "disassembling and servicing" hubs. You don't even have to - or want to - remove the cassette! (I'd clean it though.) Just pull off the right dust cap and/or just pull on the cassette and the freehub body comes right off, exposing the ratchets and springs. Clean everything up, apply DT ratchet grease and you're done! It doesn't get much easier than that. DT/Swiss has a winner here with their stout design and ultra-simple ratchet service.

(Full disclosure: my Hugi hubs on my '93 road tandem have NEVER been serviced! Somehow I've just avoided working on them at all. I'm truly embarrassed to admit this. The bike doesn't have THAT much mileage on it, but still. 30 years? Bearings smooth as silk, freehub never skipped, ever. That's absurd. So no, annual full hub maintenance is not necessary.)

SoSmellyAir

One more vote for the PR 1600 with the 350 hubs, even though the photos show the older 18T version of the 350 freehub, rather than the current 36T version.

DT Swiss PR 1600 Spline 23 Clincher Road Wheelset - 700c | Merlin Cycles

The Yugo vs. Mustang analogy is inapt. Your vintage Reynolds Solitude SE wheels have an external width of 18 mm (so their internal width is likely only 13 mm) and are designed for 23 mm wide tires, whereas the new DT Swiss wheels you are looking at have an internal width of 18 mm and are designed for 25 mm wide tires. Even with the same tires mounted, the actual tire width on the wider DT Swiss wheels would be wider, and thus more comfortable, and comfortable is faster.

TiHabanero

So it seems the freehub body has changed to aluminum. Not a deal breaker for me at least because the hub is so darned good! My 350 hub has the 18t engagement and has not presented any issues with lag. My son changed his to the 36t engagement and he did say when sprinting it makes a real difference for him.
Either way it is an excellent hub and filled with superbe (pun intended) engineering that has set the standard for the rest of the industry, which is starting to take notice and copy them.

LarryMelman

And just barely so. It is a battle royale to get 23mm Gatorskins on and off them. I bought a set of GP5000's recently and I fear I simply won't be able to get them on at all.


I wonder how you know that. Do you have specs on these wheels? As I wrote in the other thread, when I wrote to Reynolds/Hayes recently asking for parts info, they had almost nothing except the freehub body/endcap kit. They were a one-time thing, sold only at Performance. The Hayes website has a spreadsheet of Reynolds parts info back to 2013... the Solitude alloy wheel is listed only through 2014, and the SE not at all.
After I bought the SE's, I wrote to ask how they differed from the Solitude and only got vague things like "there isn’t much difference... other than a slight difference in weight... the rim is a little different than what Reynolds used for 2013 model year". If you have more detailed info, I'd like to have it to file away.

That's another factor in their favor to be sure.

LarryMelman

Well that opens a new can of worms. BWW and their private-label "Blackset" rims and "Pure" hubs, the actual manufacturers of these parts not stated, so it's been discussed in various threads but never actually figured out.

Of course I could say the same about my current wheels which are branded Reynolds but I have no idea who really made what.

Lombard

If you are slight and not a very strong rider, you shouldn't have a problem with an alloy freehub body. If you weigh over 200lbs or are a very strong rider, your cassette will gouge the freehub body.

I built up a set of wheels with White Industry W11 hubs. They have a 48t engagement. I cannot say these are any real advantage over Shimano 18t engagement hubs unless you have these on a mountain bike with ultra-low gearing. A big nothingburger IMO. The only thing I really noticed is that WI hubs have a noisier freehub than Shimano.

kwb377 

They don't need to be greased twice a year...but even if they did, it's easier than removing a cassette.

Attilio

When I upgraded my Salsa Warbird Carbon 105 to the DT Swiss 1400's carbon wheels from its original 1800's that was quite a change. I took the old wheels and put them on my son's bike and there was a difference but not as much. Granted this is with the newer disc wheels so YMMV but the 1800's don't cost a lot and if you have "cheap" wheels you will feel a difference maybe 1-2mph faster for same effort especially at higher speeds. The biggest difference IMHO isn't necessarily the lighter rims as the weight isn't exactly super light, but the low resistance hubs. But definitely worth it to go from cheap wheels to the 1800's IMHO especially since they don't cost a lot. It never pays to spend a lot of money to upgrade an older bike, just like cars as you can spend almost the same amount of money to get a more modern bike with far better specs. At this price point you're still on the value side of the equation. I say do it.