hevysrf

In general, torque specs are for clean dry bolts, reduction in torque value required if threads are lubed.

That is without reading the specific instructions for a particular part.

easyupbug 

You will find as in Engineering and Cycling it is generally assumed torque specs are lubricated or thread locked, not dry, as seen in the above referenced Cinelli Manual above, other stem suppliers like https://www.bikethomson.com/wp-conte...tructions1.pdf, Zinn's Art of Road Bike Maintenance, etc., which makes since as a dry fastener on a bike is rare.

hevysrf

I guess we can agree to disagree.

easyupbug 

Yes, we do. In an effort to not confuse folks here is a good article done in association with Park Tools that will help:
www.cyclingnews.com news and analysis
and to quote:

Thread Preparation

There is resistance to turning the bolt, as the fastener gets tighter. Some resistance comes from friction and rubbing between the internal and external thread surfaces. Because of this, it is common to prepare the threads with lubrication.

hevysrf

It may be common to lubricate threads, but bolt torque clamping forces are engineered with dry clean threads.
Lubrication will increase clamping force and torque values are generally reduced 20 to 30% when lubricated.
Steel thread in aluminum is a ideal situation for damage to occur when clamping force exceeds design..
I spend quite a bit of time with outboard engines, steel bolts in aluminum. Manufacturer's will specify when lubricant of thread lock is required. I would be very surprised if you found thread lubricant on Trek's assembly floor.

easyupbug 

Thanks, I appreciate learning of notable exceptions. As you mention Trek, which I know something about as I have one, here is a quote from the Trek owners manual, with a link to the site, addressing Stem/handlebar/bar end pinch bolts https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/o...threadlockers/
"Most threaded fasteners (except for fasteners with threadlocker) will benefit from the application of a light bike-specific lubricant. This prevents corrosion and abrasion, and also allows for a tighter fit with a given torque. For this reason, it’s a good idea to lubricate almost all threaded fasteners, but especially the following fasteners and parts interfaces. They really need grease to function properly.

When lubricating parts for assembly, only a thin film of lubricant is necessary. Any excess lube must be removed or it will attract dirt.
• Seatpost/seat tube interface
• On aluminum and steel frames (only), grease the seatpost where it inserts into the frame.• Bottom bracket threads
• We recommend applying grease to all bottom bracket/frame interfaces, as well as the bearing/cup interfaces. This prevents corrosion and will virtually eliminate creaks, a common complaint among riders with cartridge-bearing bottom brackets.• Stem/steerer tube interface
• Grease quill stems where they insert into the head tube. With direct-connect stems, a light oil is recommended with metal and carbon steerers, as grease may make it difficult to properly secure this type of stem to the steerer.• Stem/handlebar/bar end pinch bolts
• For the safety of the rider it’s critical that the bolts are correctly tightened. Apply a small amount of grease to the threads when you retighten and torque the pinch bolts."

Clyde1820

Is pretty silly, IMO.

It just becomes one of those things that's a maintenance check once (or even twice) annually. Remove the bolts, clean up the threads, use a liberal amount of LocTite Blue, then hope it doesn't seize up before the next servicing.

Where I live, there's enough humidity in the air that a bike's fittings all need at least annual review anyway. Keeping them clean and "waxed" helps; removal/cleaning/reinstall, though, on a regular basis, helps even more.

cyccommute 

Easton says (said) that you should install the face plate that way but there is really nothing that special about the way they made the stem. You could install any faceplate that way…or install it the way that most people do with even pressure all the way around.

cyccommute 

The more I thing about it, the less I think this is a problem. The majority of seatposts I can think of use a steel bolt into a steel thread of some kind. Even seatposts like the one V8powerage shows overwhelmingly use a steel nut on top. Two bolt posts usually use some kind of steel cylinder that has been threaded at 90° to the length of the cylinder.

I don’t know where you live but your procedure seems excessive. I’ve worked on a whole lot of old bikes stored in all kinds of places over the last decade and a half and seldom do I run across a bolt that is seized. If the bolt has be lubricated prior to installation, the incidence of seizure drops to zero.

Clyde1820

It's infrequent for me, as well. In part, because I go after the easily-removed bolts to ensure they're remaining easily-removed and free of rusting/galling. The humidity issues where I live don't play well with long-forgotten and -ignored bolts, on a bike. Wish it were different, but it's not.

easyupbug 

Posting message to OP from a PM on gaps and photos as I can not get photos to post on the Message Board.
v8powerage Sorry about the pictures it is hard to get the focus and both sides of the bar. I measured with feeler gauges and got 0.037" on the front and one of the back two and the other 0.034"

jccaclimber

This sounds like a fine case of a lack of understanding leading to anger after someone tries to replace understanding with more force.

As to threads, while many *bicycle* torque specs assume lubrication, that isn’t the standard for fasteners as a whole. Most of automotive and typical industrial applications assume clean dry threads. If the want a friction modifier it’s put in a dry coating during the fastener manufacturing process. Having studied the torque vs. clamp load curves for threaded fasteners dry, oiled, greased, and with the common Loctite flavors applied, I think many would be surprised how different a thread locker can act vs. grease when tightening.

Crankycrank

^^^+1 with what jccaclimber said. I'll also add that I have seen different specs for torquing bolts on various engines where some specify a lubricant or even a very specific lube on bolts while others specify dry for the same engine parts on different engines such as cylinder heads or rod end caps. So, this leaves us with a bit of a question mark for bike parts but I always grease threads for anti-corrosion purposes and rarely use a torque wrench unless for certain parts where more than thread stripping is a concern such as CF parts that can crack or suspension pivots that can come loose or deformed from too little or too much torque. If you're really concerned, look for an instruction manual for your parts that may say dry or lubed torque.

smd4

I don't care what anyone else does, but I will continue to grease every threaded fastener. I've never stripped out anything, at least on high-quality bike components. Guess I'm just lucky.

v8powerage

I asked Cinelli for frog manual, this is their reply.