djb

I have a friend whose bike I looked over and fixed some stuff. She is the same height as my wife , about 5'1" and the frame is clearly too big for her. Toptube is just too long but she has had the bike for many years and likes it but does realize that she has too much weight on her hands.
The actual bar height is rather high, about 2 inches above saddle. There is one of those adjustable stems on it now, and even when I adjusted it to the maximum "turn up" position to bring the bars as far towards her as possible, I am certain there is too much reach. She does tell me that she rides often in the drops, so this does me that she would be fine with a slightly lower saddle/bar height.

now, with this stem turned all the way up, it seems that it is about a 75mm length center to center, and the angle is 50+ degrees. Her "middle of seat" (seatpost), to front of dropbars is about 61cm, whereas my bike which fits me great at 5'10.5 has "middle of seat-seatpost to front of dropbars is only 64cm, so its clear to me that less reach would help a great deal.

Her toptube is pretty much the same length as mine about 54cm, which is just plain dumb that she was sold this bike at all.

so, to bar stems, what do you think would be the limit to change the stem to a non-adjustable shorter yet highly angled one --are there stems that are in the 40mm range?

and if so, with shorter ones, will it mean that the bike will have quicker steering? more twitchy?

She already feels the bike is very responsive, it has 32s on it that look like they are more like 30s, so one idea I have is to suggest putting some fat 35s or more on, as I know that will slow things down a bit--but does anyone have experience with really short stems and how if it made your bike more nervous?

I dont want to make the bike more skittish, but would like to hear of personal experience and/or ideas.

thanks

valygrl

I have a 70 on my tour bike, b/c the top tube is too long. It's fine. But, it's a tour bike, so it has inherently stable/slow/non-twitchy steering characteristics.

Hope this data point helps.

djb

thanks, as I said, her toptube is pretty much the same length as mine (me at 5'10) so I really do think we are going to have to go as short as we possibly can, and even then I am not sure.....

Ive told her such, and in the end, this bike might never be right for her. The real shame is that it was sold to her 9 years ago, but it could go to one of her kids if all else fails (they are taller than her)

yet another too large frame sold to an unsuspecting customer.

valygrl

Life's too short to ride a bike that doesn't fit.

It's not a puppy, it's just a bike, get a new one that fits.

bradtx

This!

A road bike and in particular a small framed road bike can become quite nervous with a 70 mm stem. Perhaps a 65-70 mm stem with shorter reach/shallower drop bars will work.

Brad

Bacciagalupe

I haven't noticed any difference in handling characteristics due specifically to a short stem.

The critical factors in that respect are the bike's geometry, and when touring the weight distribution of the luggage. Moving a stem back by a few mm isn't going to alter the bike's trail, steering radius, and so forth.

That said, if the bike is too large then you can't really fix it by using a shorter stem.

fietsbob

just measured, new Bike Friday, pocket Llama, has a 4.5cm stem.
I have Trekking bars on it, it' s fine..

My Brompton has the bars directly attached to the steering column,
so, "stem" nearly zero.

sight unseen? .. this is not really within the scope of text.
piles of variables, hidden. proportions of riders body, more than total height,
age and flexibility, upper body fitness .

brianmcg123

Get her a new frame from Nashbar for $75. You might spend that on a stem.

Tourist in MSN

I attached a couple photos from a combination stem and handlebar unit off of a vintage three speed that is hanging in my basement. The stem length is a genuine zero mm in length.



The bike handled ok with his handlebar stem unit. I do not see any problem with the shortest stem you can find.

No, it is not for sale, don't ask. I quit using the bike when I was unable to buy tires for it, although that may change as I have bought some tires that might fit on the rims.

fietsbob

Terry bikes now have their frame-sets made by Waterford,
if getting good stuff is in the budget.

voj112

I would replace the drops bars with trekking, north road, or mustache bars (preferably trekking for the hand positions) and bolt on the shortest stem possible to eliminate the long top tube problem. Finally I would lower the stem to the same level as the saddle to get some pressure off the butt. Getting a cheap Nashbar frame is a better long-term solution though.

djb

I agree. We however are the preaching to the converted group here, Im not sure about her. The trick I think is to get her to ride a bike that fits her much better, she tried my wifes specialized flat bar bike, which is shorter and that felt good. so thats a start.

djb

one other thing, I did some quick measurements of wheelbase, chainstays, they are all quite close to my touring bike 104cm wheelbase, 44cm chainstays.
Oh, btw the bike is a no-longer existing Mikado Cabot...probably marketed as a tourer, has a 8 speed Sora group on it, sora brifters, but oddly has a 52/42/30 crank (too high by far IMO)

so in other words, I think its geometry is prob fairly non-skittish.

but yes, if its too big its too big, I dont think a really short stem will change it too much, but will ride it myself to get an idea.

djb

neat, thats very good personal experience, same with the other you mentioned.



yes, as you say, many factors and tricky to assess. I dont know how she is as a rider, we actually have never ridden together, are good friends but not "riding" friends.

Oh, the Terry Waterford built bikes would be much too high a budget, but thanks for mentioning.

djb

you know, I never even considered something like this idea....I would be curious to check out the geometry of those frames, for toe overlap etc on teh smaller frames....but interesting. shall keep that in mind.

djb

very interesting, havent seen that before.

jwbnyc

Lol!

Possible sig line.


I find a longer stem is nice with weight on the front. It gives some extra leverage which makes the bike easier to handle especially when climbing.

Having said that, I've used stems down to about 70 with no issues.

bud16415

I am no bike fitting expert by far, but having rode what was given to me or what I could piece together starting at about 10 years old, one can become somewhat of a self fitting expert of things that don’t fit. I have found it’s a bit easier to adapt a too small bike to a taller rider than vice versa. I would say if the bike is not to large the person can reasonably stand over the top bar or if it’s a frame where the top bar is not level she could stand over where a level top bar would be something on the cheap could be done to give a more pleasurable ride. Maybe not perfect but greatly improved.

In most cases it starts with the seat position. The crank to the seat post is a fixed given and whenever I get on a too large frame I have to fight the urge to move the seat forward. Doing that moves the crank back in essence and leans you more over the bars increasing hand pressure. For me it’s the geometry of the front that causes stability or lack of, fork and steering angle. Stem length and angle are all related what bar they are matched to. Once they become a unit it’s the hand position relative to the centerline of the stem, the angle of the stem and the amount the axle is in front of the centerline. People ride beach bikes and they are stable and the hand position is way back. If it’s a bike you can ride no hands chances are it's pretty stable geometry.

You didn’t really say how serious a rider she is or has desire to be or what type riding the bike will be used for. But I would stick with the adjustable stem for now. they are great for experimenting with different bars and bar heights. Then I would try out a few different bars as mentioned above if something feels right then getting the brakes and shifters to work with the different bars is the next problem. I put a set of those touring bars on a friends bike that was having similar issues and she loves them, tilting them you can get kind of a drop position also. I have seen them configured a lot of different ways and you can usually find a spot to attach things that works out.

If her bike has good quality components on it the new frame idea isn't too bad a way to go also but will be a little work on your part switching all over.

Gotte

As I always understood it, longer stem equals more twitch steering. Rudder effect - more leverage with a longer stem. Shorter stem, more relaxed. I've got some Kona porteur style bars and stem off a Kona Ute. The stem is 10mm, I think, and it handles beautifully.

djb

you know its funny, but for no reason at all I would have thought instinctively that the opposite was true...my feeling is that if your actual weight is closer to the stem (straight bars opposed to drop bars where your hands will most likely be further forward on hoods etc) it will be more twitchy...?

who knows, when I can get to a bike store with my friend and see what the shortest stem possible we can get , I guess I will know with before and after rides.

charbucks

I'm about 2 inches taller than your friend, and I would never consider a bike with a 54 cm top tube! My stock 42 cm LHT has a 75 mm stem at a 35 degree angle, and it doesn't feel twitchy at all. The effective top tube is 50.5 cm.

For comparison, my road bike has a 52.5 cm eTT, with an 80 mm/6 degree stem. It's much twitcher, so I'm inclined to agree that the touring geometry has more influence on the stability. However, when I bought the bike second hand it had a 110 mm stem, and was considerably less twitchy (though far too long), so I would say that a longer stem definitely decreases twitchiness.

If she is considering a new bike, I would suggest trying something with 26" wheels. I couldn't put anything bigger than 25 mm tires on my 700 cc road bike, as everything is packed in so tightly, but the 26" LHT has plenty of room for fat tires and even fenders, and it's great to not worry about bumps and gratings and the like. There is a bit of a speed hit, but not as much as I thought there would be (considering the 12 lb weight difference!).

DVC45

Best solution.

Gotte

If you imagine having a really long stem and a straight bar, you can imagine that to get the wheel to turn an inch, you have to haul the bar maybe six inches as opposed to a short stem where you turn the bar only a couple of inches, the result is a bar that is less intuative because you are hefting it all over to get a fine adjustment.
Of course fork rake and head tube angle come into play. If you have a steep angle on both the results are a really jittery steer - slack angle on both and it it a lot slower.

motobecane69

all i got out of the original post was that YOU seem to think the bike doesn't fit her, yet she has been riding this bike "for many years". you say she doesn't realize there is too much weight on her hands. well if she's been riding for years and it isn't uncomfortable it isn't too much is it? But if she has been complaining and it really is an issue than a nashbar frame is the way to go. the shorter seatube frames have normal to long top tube lengths but are still way shorter than what you mentioned. the larger frames have some very short top tubes on them and they also have womens specific bikes but I don't think they sell the womens specific frames only

https://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product...0_10000_202401

djb

merci for the take on stems and the 26" suggestion, at this point Im not sure going the new bike route is on the cards for the moment, but if it gets to that, I would make the suggestion, just because I know the toe-overlap would be avoided, and in any case, a more sedate geometry frame is really more up her alley in terms of what she would be comfortable with. My 26" commuter mtn bike is slower than my cross bike 700c, but not by heaps and as you say, is nice to ride for not having to pay attention of Montreals crapola roads.