Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Vintage Cycling dies a slow death...

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Vintage Cycling dies a slow death...

Old 11-23-22, 02:37 PM
  #176  
iab
Senior Member
 
iab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NW Burbs, Chicago
Posts: 11,740
Mentioned: 192 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2761 Post(s)
Liked 2,906 Times in 1,158 Posts
Originally Posted by repechage
One plus for classic and vintage, while Di2 and Ergo EPS and whatever SRAM calls their electronic groups go the way of Mavic Zap and become unserviceable, cable actuated systems will endure.

not to mention near unserviceable hydraulic brake systems.
Everything wears out. Wireless shifting and hydraulics will make cables go the way of the buggy whip. Enough time and even Nuovo Record will be unserviceable.
iab is offline  
Old 11-23-22, 03:12 PM
  #177  
Trakhak
Senior Member
 
Trakhak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 3,979
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1631 Post(s)
Liked 1,713 Times in 986 Posts
It's good to see that modern bike tech continues the decades-old tradition of dubious claims for iffy innovations. For every poorly conceived concealed-cable setup in a modern high-end racing bike (it's aero!), probably soon to disappear and be replaced by more-conventional routing, there's a corresponding overblown piece of tech that came and went in the blink of an eye.

For instance: want to get rid of the dead spot at the top and bottom of your pedal stroke? See below. (See also: Powercam cranks.)



There's a current C&V thread about Rigida Score hard-anodized rims that includes a digression on that period in the '80s when every racer wanted some version of dark anodized rims. I'll admit it took me a couple of years to realize that all of the hard-anodized rims that the manufacturers were claiming to be miraculously stronger and tougher than conventional rims also just happened to be among the heaviest rims in the manufacturer's lineup.
Trakhak is offline  
Likes For Trakhak:
Old 11-23-22, 03:30 PM
  #178  
Bad Lag
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: So Cal, for now
Posts: 2,160

Bikes: 1975 Bob Jackson - Nuovo Record, Brooks Pro, Clips & Straps

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 940 Post(s)
Liked 582 Times in 333 Posts
Originally Posted by steelbikeguy
Did this start when Campagnolo created the concept of a "group"?
No, no, no! Say it ain't so, Joe. You must be thinking of Shimano.

Campagnolo always had spare parts for maintainability and kept the Record/Nuovo/Super Record line in production and supply for a VERY long time. Items were user-repairable, interchangeable, compatible,...

For me, this was the reason to buy Campi rather than Shimano, or any other brand. I could never afford to buy a complete groupo, so I built up my "groupo" one piece at a time.

Just for the record, the first bit I bought was the micro-adjustable seat post, so I could ride more comfortably. Those cheap, indexed saddle clamps were just never right for me.

I do not know what Campagnolo or any other company is doing these days and I do not care.

I am FIRMLY locked into my 50 year old bike. It has a 5 speed freewheel, Nuovo Record all around and a 50 year old Brooks Team Pro saddle.

Last edited by Bad Lag; 11-23-22 at 03:34 PM.
Bad Lag is offline  
Likes For Bad Lag:
Old 11-23-22, 04:00 PM
  #179  
Vinnems
Full Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Simi Valley, CA
Posts: 245
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked 11 Times in 7 Posts
Originally Posted by squirtdad
personally I like vintage frames with modern components, so am more concerned by the move to all disc braking and all electronic shifting at the high end.

but if you look a at the vendors mentioned there is still a ton of support for the vintage ethos

RH: alloy cranks, berthoud saddles for starters, fenders and the tires
VeloOrange; Super nice long reach dual pivots that will let me do bigger tires than 28mm should I choose
Rivendell: is 99% bringing out a nice silver derailler

I think the more the big guys move away from "vintage" the more it opens things up for small producers (with probably higher prices)

I think the vintage ethos and aesthetics will live and inspire, but not necessarily be slavish identical to the past
I mentioned this as a concern in another thread, too. For me its not so much the age of the bike or components, but the looks. Lugged frames look great still with Athena 11s and Shimano 105, but as the electronic groups take over, and more components only have black finishes, things don't look as nice. I don't think Campagnolo even makes Athena anymore or have anything like it. So while it's still easy to get a new lugged frame, getting a new group set that "feels" vintage is less feasible.
Vinnems is offline  
Likes For Vinnems:
Old 11-23-22, 04:26 PM
  #180  
heidelbergensis 
Junior Member
 
heidelbergensis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2022
Location: NYC
Posts: 102

Bikes: 1975 Eisentraut Limited Touring, 1982 KHS Professional, 2015 Milwaukee Bicycle Co. Roadie, 2023 Bilenky Clubsman 650b (soon!)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Liked 65 Times in 31 Posts
Originally Posted by Vinnems
I mentioned this as a concern in another thread, too. For me its not so much the age of the bike or components, but the looks. Lugged frames look great still with Athena 11s and Shimano 105, but as the electronic groups take over, and more components only have black finishes, things don't look as nice. I don't think Campagnolo even makes Athena anymore or have anything like it. So while it's still easy to get a new lugged frame, getting a new group set that "feels" vintage is less feasible.
This is 100% the problem moving forward - as I mentioned in my first post above, Campy nixed Potenza and now for the first time in its history doesn't have a components group with a bare aluminum finish in their line-up. This is probably because it didn't sell very well despite apparently being a capable groupset. That may be true, but it was too modern-looking for the target market (C&V) - the several different finishes on even a single component (satin, mirror polish and black anodizing) and the butt-ugly 12sp four-arm crankset. I have an Athena 11 groupset and love it, but that particular group was discontinued years ago already. Personally, I think that the alloy five-arm Ultratorque cranksets are one of Campy's most beautiful modern designs.

It's rather depressing, because it looks like it's just going to get harder and harder to source components, as people both use and wear out parts as well as hoard them. I think that that's pretty much already happening. C-list and eBay even 10 years ago was an absolute bonanza of vintage parts for decent or even downright cheap prices. Not so much anymore.
heidelbergensis is offline  
Old 11-23-22, 04:45 PM
  #181  
iab
Senior Member
 
iab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NW Burbs, Chicago
Posts: 11,740
Mentioned: 192 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2761 Post(s)
Liked 2,906 Times in 1,158 Posts
Originally Posted by heidelbergensis
This is 100% the problem moving forward - as I mentioned in my first post above, Campy nixed Potenza and now for the first time in its history doesn't have a components group with a bare aluminum finish in their line-up. This is probably because it didn't sell very well despite apparently being a capable groupset. That may be true, but it was too modern-looking for the target market (C&V) - the several different finishes on even a single component (satin, mirror polish and black anodizing) and the butt-ugly 12sp four-arm crankset. I have an Athena 11 groupset and love it, but that particular group was discontinued years ago already. Personally, I think that the alloy five-arm Ultratorque cranksets are one of Campy's most beautiful modern designs.

It's rather depressing, because it looks like it's just going to get harder and harder to source components, as people both use and wear out parts as well as hoard them. I think that that's pretty much already happening. C-list and eBay even 10 years ago was an absolute bonanza of vintage parts for decent or even downright cheap prices. Not so much anymore.
It's a profit issue. Flat black hides all sins, gloss silver highlights all sins. Black components will have a lower scrap rate, lower production costs, increasing profits.

But it is still aluminum underneath. An enterprising person could, with a lot of time and patience, strip the black anodizing. If were one so inclined.
iab is offline  
Likes For iab:
Old 11-24-22, 09:15 AM
  #182  
Road Fan
Senior Member
 
Road Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,562

Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8

Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1725 Post(s)
Liked 581 Times in 436 Posts
Originally Posted by wrk101
I have seen no drop off in the availability of parts for vintage bikes, as long as you are OK with used parts. Other than consumables, all of my parts come in the form of a complete used bike. I avoid buying deals as I am full up, but I see deals all the time. I saw two today, been for sale for a while, both priced at about 25% of market value. I have made no effort to get either one.

Velo Orange as an important supplier? I have never bought a single item from them. I've owned and rebuilt at least 750 vintage bikes. For me at least, they are not an important supplier. I can still find USED parts for a lot less than any shop or outlet charges. I've never been into reproduction stuff either.
I have trouble seeing VO as a vintage source. Itís more of a price-conscious boutique.
Road Fan is offline  
Likes For Road Fan:
Old 11-25-22, 03:11 AM
  #183  
C9H13N 
Full Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: North Seattle
Posts: 383

Bikes: Davidson í81

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 120 Post(s)
Liked 222 Times in 117 Posts
Centaur 11 is available in silver. Itís ugly like Potenza, same crank, RD parallelogram plate is a little different but the same black knuckles. Am I missing something? At least theyíre trying.
C9H13N is offline  
Likes For C9H13N:
Old 11-25-22, 05:19 AM
  #184  
BMC_Kid
Full Member
 
BMC_Kid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 231
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 80 Post(s)
Liked 218 Times in 89 Posts
Originally Posted by heidelbergensis
I have an Athena 11 groupset and love it, but that particular group was discontinued years ago already. Personally, I think that the alloy five-arm Ultratorque cranksets are one of Campy's most beautiful modern designs.
I agree with you about the Athena 11-speed groupset. I swapped out my Superbe Pro 8-speed group for an Athena 11-speed group as I needed a wide gear range. I liked the fact that it retained the traditional 5-arm crankset that I grew up with over the years and was the only groupset currently made that offered what I needed in a silver anodized finish. The only problem I had at the time was sourcing the Power-Torque bearing cups in time to complete the build. I ended up using a compact crankset from the Centaur 11-speed group and Ultra-Touque bearing cups. I was finally able to get the Power-Torque cups and will be swapping out the crankset for the Athena when I am next home around Christmas. I am thinking about sending off the crankset, rear derailleur, and shifters for a polish and some pantographing. And if I do that, I will just keep the Centaur crankset as I prefer the Ultra-Torque over the Power-Torque. Since I'll be removing the printing anyway, it won't really make a difference anyway.


Last edited by BMC_Kid; 11-25-22 at 05:45 AM.
BMC_Kid is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.