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NYT: 5 cyclists killed near Las Vegas

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NYT: 5 cyclists killed near Las Vegas

Old 12-16-20, 11:28 AM
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LV Review Journal reports this morning truck driver charged with DUI.

https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/...ander%20Barson.
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Old 12-16-20, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by SpeedofLite View Post
LV Review Journal reports this morning truck driver charged with DUI.

https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/...ander%20Barson.
Good find. Thanks for the followup. That makes additional charges (usually something like manslaughter) a possibility.
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Old 12-16-20, 11:45 AM
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Old 12-16-20, 12:04 PM
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F'ing doper. Looks like the DUI is for meth.


https://www.ktnv.com/news/crime/da-m...meth-in-system
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Old 12-16-20, 12:16 PM
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These days, cops should never make the statement that "impairment is not believed to be a factor" unless they have blood test results in hand.
There are too many drugs that impair motorist, including prescription drugs from a Dr.
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Old 12-16-20, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
These days, cops should never make the statement that "impairment is not believed to be a factor" unless they have blood test results in hand.
There are too many drugs that impair motorist, including prescription drugs from a Dr.
Not all, but some of the people who go into police work are not hired because of their intellect. It seems the main criteria is the capacity to follow orders without question. Many are ex military.

Whether or not the driver was impaired or not seems to be irrelevant. If you smash into someone from the rear you were not paying attention.
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Old 12-16-20, 02:03 PM
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Keep in mind that amphetamines are an upper, and generally would be like a super-coffee. But, of course, they also have the rebound downer effects, and are strongly addictive.

They have historically been used in industries where drowsiness and alertness are issues. The US Airforce has used them until very recently, an issue that was highlighted in 2002 when American pilots bombed Canadians.. The US Military officially no longer uses amphetamines as a stimulant, but have changed drugs, and are apparently now using Modafinil.

No matter the reasoning for the drugs, having them in the driver's system has suddenly elevated this to a significant crime.

The early announcement of "Not Impaired" may well haunt the prosecution. I would hope there would be a deep dive into the driver's dosing, sleep schedule, and driving hours. Perhaps also activities in LV.

A morning drive south from a big city should indicate a well rested driver, but that may not be the case.

Blood levels of amphetamines would indicate whether he dosed himself in the morning before the drive, or perhaps was crashing from previous dosing.

Or, perhaps was an occasional party user in LV.
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Old 12-16-20, 07:47 PM
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They're going to nail him, but I don't know that having meth in his blood is a full explanation for what happened. I would feel differently if he had been drunk. Maybe the speed had an effect on his judgement, but maybe not. Still more questions than answers.
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Old 12-16-20, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by berner View Post
Not all, but some of the people who go into police work are not hired because of their intellect. It seems the main criteria is the capacity to follow orders without question. Many are ex military.

Whether or not the driver was impaired or not seems to be irrelevant. If you smash into someone from the rear you were not paying attention.
I am a retired Navy Officer. All the sailors in my commands were trained to always think and do the proper action. There is no way one can write a casualty manual or battle plan that covers every contingency. Military folks need to think on thier feet in battle or they die.

Of the enlisted members on my submarines and in a Military Police unit I was in charge of, 80% of them could easily complete college.

If you knew more about the military, you would have had a clue by my avatar.
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Old 12-16-20, 09:19 PM
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don't know how many meth fiends you have interacted with but long term use can lead to confusion, insomnia, hallucinations, and other psychotic episodes. not exactly someone you want on the road.
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Old 12-17-20, 07:20 AM
  #86  
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What's really interesting in these cases is, absent any impairment, the drivers typically walk away with scarcely a slap on the wrist. If they kill cyclists because they are just damn dumb and/or bad drivers, then it's all good.
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Old 12-17-20, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
What's really interesting in these cases is, absent any impairment, the drivers typically walk away with scarcely a slap on the wrist. If they kill cyclists because they are just damn dumb and/or bad drivers, then it's all good.
So this guy is charged with five counts of DUI with death, which should each have a minimum of 2 years and maximum of 20 years of jail time. I am going to bet he gets 10 years and maybe serves 3.
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Old 12-17-20, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
These days, cops should never make the statement that "impairment is not believed to be a factor" unless they have blood test results in hand.
There are too many drugs that impair motorist, including prescription drugs from a Dr.
Especially when he looked like this:




ps. This is a joke -not really him but just some meth head. But I agree with the point- you have no idea what people are on until they are tested.
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Old 12-17-20, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by REDMASTA View Post
don't know how many meth fiends you have interacted with but long term use can lead to confusion, insomnia, hallucinations, and other psychotic episodes. not exactly someone you want on the road.
I'm sure that's true, but unlike a blood alcohol test, where we would really understand the driver's level of impairment at the time of the accident, evidence of meth in his blood doesn't tell us much about his impairment at that particular time.
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Old 12-17-20, 10:51 AM
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Oh, an interesting page on Meth. Also noting some tests can give false positives with related drugs such as potentially Sudafed.

https://www.verywellmind.com/how-lon...r-system-80283

Ok, so as with many things, one has to look up the state laws:
https://darrenweiss.law/dui-of-drugs/

So, Nevada has very specific laws on Meth.
Methamphetamine (Meth) Urine Nanograms per ml: 500 Blood Nanograms per ml: 100

One would assume a quantitative analysis was done on the blood/urine to determine if the driver met the state criteria.

Federal Commercial DOT requirements may be different, if the driver had a CDL.

============================================

One might note, as with cycling and inhalers that came up last year, a pure quantitative blood test may not be adequate if it doesn't control for urine concentration.

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Old 12-19-20, 01:16 AM
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A filthy windshield (maybe), sun right in his eyes (certainly), and meth in his blood. You think he's the only one? It's Russian roulette out there folks. Enjoy your next ride on the highway! This is the sun position at the time of the collision in Las Vegas. So imagine the methhead squinting through a slit of filthy windshield under his sun visor just looking 100 feet ahead of the hood at the road surface. 75mph = 110 feet per second (if he was driving the limit) . KABLAM!

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Old 12-21-20, 10:39 AM
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A local cyclist and friend of many of these Las Vegas riders produced this video.
Her interview of one of the riders provides some more detail of the tragedy.






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Old 12-22-20, 09:45 AM
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Damn, that was hard to watch. Thanks for sharing.

I've been on the scene (not a first responder, but I'm trained and stopped) of a fatality, and even not knowing the person was super traumatic for me. I can't imagine it being 5 of my friends.
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Old 12-22-20, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post

A filthy windshield (maybe), sun right in his eyes (certainly),
You frequently offer that up as an excuse, and you are frequently off the mark. In this case the sun angle above the horizon and relative to axis of the road were not problematic. I drive. A lot. Often during sunrise and sunset. The angle above the horizon is truly only problematic within the first and last 30 minutes, if that. Further, it's only problematic during that time period if it's within a few degrees of dead ahead. In this case it wasn't close to either of those metrics. Take a look at the shadows of the objects and workers on scene from the photos posted here.

You'll argue with me. We live in the same city. After COVID passes, I have a truck with a dirty windshield and $1000 I'll wager that outside the parameters I laid out, the sun does not present an obstacle to seeing objects on the road. It does provide a really lame damn excuse to those intellectually dishonest enough to use it.
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Old 12-22-20, 11:59 AM
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Response to Paul Barnard on angle of the sun

Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
The angle above the horizon is truly only problematic within the first and last 30 minutes, if that. Further, it's only problematic during that time period if it's within a few degrees of dead ahead.
I think your forensic analysis is excellent. It's unusual in a social media site, where ignorance and strong opinions are what rules. Careful analysis of a photo is really rare and BUT that said, I disagree with you about the "only dead ahead." For me, sun streaming in the side windows--say from 15 degrees to 100 degrees from the centerline of the windshield--are even more blinding than full on into the front windshield. It also can cause me various physical symptoms if its strobing from the side through trees or buildings.

But the bottom line, we agree on. It's this: there are myriad things that can cause a driver--even a good, careful, safe driver--to not see us clearly for a moment or two. And that moment could easily be our last moment, because as cyclists, we have absolutely no protection other than avoidance. I try to always remember that when I ride and let that motivate me. Motivate me not just to not do anything stupid, but to ride like there are always things around me that can unintentionally kill me. Even as I continue to ride.
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Old 12-23-20, 01:03 AM
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We can see the driver's side visor in the truck photo.



So there was likely some impact of the sun. Not necessarily blinding like one gets when it is right on the horizon, but at least some influence of the sun.
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Old 12-23-20, 01:37 AM
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The sun was roughly 25 above the southeastern horizon.That would get my sun visor pulled down. Make any assumptions you want. How many times do you have to see cyclists riding into a rising or setting sun getting hozed by motorists on high speed roads? 75mph = 110 feet/second. You don't have to mess up much at 75 mph (if he drove the limit which I seriously doubt) to overtake slow moving road users while looking though the bottom half of a windshield covered in glare. Believe what you want. Ignoring visibility and speed differential issues while cycling puts you at greater risk whether you believe it or not. But hey, plenty people believe Covid ain't a thing either while the tractor trailers fill up with dead bodies behind hospitals. I'm fine with y'all riding into the freaking sun without concern. Rock on.
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Old 12-23-20, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by berner View Post
Not all, but some of the people who go into police work are not hired because of their intellect. It seems the main criteria is the capacity to follow orders without question. Many are ex military.

Whether or not the driver was impaired or not seems to be irrelevant. If you smash into someone from the rear you were not paying attention.
Your political opinion of people are not welcome here.
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Old 12-23-20, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post

The sun was roughly 25 above the southeastern horizon.That would get my sun visor pulled down. Make any assumptions you want. How many times do you have to see cyclists riding into a rising or setting sun getting hozed by motorists on high speed roads? 75mph = 110 feet/second. You don't have to mess up much at 75 mph (if he drove the limit which I seriously doubt) to overtake slow moving road users while looking though the bottom half of a windshield covered in glare. Believe what you want. Ignoring visibility and speed differential issues while cycling puts you at greater risk whether you believe it or not. But hey, plenty people believe Covid ain't a thing either while the tractor trailers fill up with dead bodies behind hospitals. I'm fine with y'all riding into the freaking sun without concern. Rock on.
25 degree sun with a visor blocking it at that angle has no affect compared to driving while on meth.
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Old 12-23-20, 09:25 PM
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I would like to see a better description of where each group of participants were at the time of the crash:
.

A: Fully on Shoulder
B: Split on both sides of Rumbles
C: Fully on Road (as far right as possible or centered)
.
And, then a description for the groups:
.

1: Lead Group (far enough ahead to be unaware of the accident)
2: Middle Group, immediately in front of the SAG Wagon
3: SAG Wagon
4: Following group behind SAG Wagon
5: Truck Driver
.

Yes, those cyclists a half mile ahead would help explain some of the group mentality.

Obviously there is no excuse to slam into the back of a group of cyclists. Yet, I don't think I would be happy to ride in a lane on that road, even with light traffic.
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