Andrew R Stewart 

FastJake- You better duck when those of us pass you by, what with your worn out uber fashion stuff at the side of the road (This said with some tongue in cheek and some disappointment)

When a product and manufacturer has lasted for so many decades and has developed such a stellar rep for solid and long lasting products it is sad to read your comment. Perhaps I don't recognize some humor reference "(ducks)". If so then egg is on my face. Please tell me that you are kidding about his icon of forward thinking and steady USA manufacturing. Andy

FastJake

Heavy and expensive are difficult to dispute (overpriced is my own opinion). A cassette hub that weighs 500g, and costs $450?! Bomb-proof Dura Ace 7400 (or Ultegra 6400,6500,6600, etc.) weighs 350-360 grams and will outlive all of us with basic maintenance.

Junk is a strong word, but I'll say that Shimano parts have never left me on the side of the road (no uber fashion stuff here) but a Phil Wood bottom bracket did leave Jan Heine stranded when it moved sideways because the bearings aren't located with shoulders. Maybe that was a rare failure, but it's still not a good design. https://www.renehersecycles.com/bott...s-demystified/

Most of all, I just don't "get it" when it comes to Phil Wood. Heavy, expensive, other parts are readily available that work just as well... What's the point? I've heard good things about their spoke cutting machine though.

robertorolfo

Have you ever seen Campagnolo C-Record hubs? How about C-Rocord, or any other model, with the century finish?

I'm in the "don't get it" camp as well. You have two big brands (one Japanese, one Italian) putting out very high level components that are more reasonably priced thanks to economies of scale. Plus, those brands have a better racing pedigree, if that matters to you (and it matters to a lot of people).

Andrew R Stewart 

Well I am Phil fan, but I'm also a shop mechanic so when I ride I don't like issues or reasons top have to fix one more bike, at home and after hours (think of it like the cobbler's kids except the cobbler can make the best pair of shoes the first time that will last far longer then the mass produced stuff).

As to Jan H's Phill BB it sounds like someone didn't do a proper install. The retaining rings are to be Locktighted in place. (as though press fit and common threaded BB's don't have their issues either???)

I do agree that Shimano does a very good job at the price points they market to, very good and on average better then most all other high volume components. Phil never considered themselves as a competitor to the OEM makers. They wanted to offer a US made part that exceeded the common stuff in durability and in function. IMO they have done a fine job in that (excepting their long discontinued disk brake, we all make mistakes. Phil has done this only once). Now when do we talk about where/which country we send our hard earned money Andy

Russ Roth

I long considered a pair of phil track hubs but honestly don't ride the bike enough or fast enough to justify more then the Miche I bought. If my daughter keeps racing and doing well I will build her a nice set of wheels for her track bike though probably next year based on this year's season so far; their track hubs really excel. I had a road hub and ended up ditching it years ago as too heavy and the freewheel too chunky but that was 18 years ago and they've made changes but can't speak to new stuff. Reading various forums their tandem hubs get good reviews and they're the only place I found for a french thread GXP bottom bracket, price was high enough I only bought one and used my lathe to turn down a new aluminum eccentric for the front so I could use a sram bb. So while I think all their stuff looks sweet I find I have to pick and choose on what seems worth it to me.

veganbikes

Yes. I actually have a set of old Mavic tubs that are laced to 70-80s era Record hubs . My ultimate goal is a set of real sheriff star hubs but alas I don't want to spend those prices.

79pmooney

Seems to me that it is entirely possible PW might make a non-standard hub (or whatever) for a customer with specific needs that is willing to pay for it. I see Phil Wood, the shop, as a machine shop that makes lines of product but thinks of themselves as a machine shop, not a factory. I've talked to them about various items, both cycling and non-cycling over the years and always had that impression reinforced.

Maybe these are hubs made custom for someone who never used them? Possibly a different sized signature to denote they are not stock. Different spoke drillings - maybe that was the change?

Ben

davidad

Hasn't Phil Wood been under different management for a number of years? I have a Phil BB that I gave up on because the bearings did not hold up and the axle could slip because of the press fit sleeve that located the bearings. I jury rigged tools to replace the bearings, but it was too much trouble when the shimano's lasted so long.

Andrew R Stewart 

The Phil has retired and the Phil Wood Co is under new management. Having seen a lot of older units and fairly current ones I can't say there is a consistent issue with any era's production. I will sat that the few that I have sent back for their service have been dealt with professionally and with no issues. (And I can't say this for the vast majority of other brands out there). As I've agreed with before, Shimano does a better job then most other brands in both their production, WRT to cost point, and their service (at least since the mid 1980s). I won't disparage Shimano's products, I will phrase Phil's though.

Which brand you decide is worth your hard earned money is your choice. Which business model you choose to support is your choice. I prefer product cycles that last longer then what's fashionable. But what galls me is those who piss on what works, has worked for decades and is only a choice that others pick. If you don't like the stuff just don't buy it. Andy

FastJake

How many good bottom bracket designs require Loctite to function properly? None that I'm aware of. Now we have two first-hand reports of Phil BB failures from a tiny sample size, and there are plenty more online... I'm not sure what failure mode a Shimano square taper BB could have, other than eventual bearing contamination and failure. But for the price, you could replace it 7 times for one Phil BB. If you really want durability, get an SKF with a 10 year warranty which includes the bearings.

I don't believe it's fair to dismiss my (and other) comments as "pissing on what works" because it clearly doesn't, at least not for everyone. Given the cost I would expect significant improvements in "durability and function" as you mention, but it's difficult to see either of those. Their "pro" rear hub is a bit lighter than a steel-bodied (Ultegra, Dura Ace 7400) rear hub, still heavier than Dura Ace 7700/7800 titanium, but it uses an aluminum freehub body! So much for durability.

Maybe this stuff made sense in the 1970s when typical loose-ball hubs and bottom brackets (Campy, Shimano, etc.) had virtually no seals and required frequent re-packing. But since ~1990 that's not the case.

I will agree that Shimano (and the bike industry in general) are awful about planned obsolescence, especially these days. Every week there is a new bottom bracket/disc brake/drivetrain "standard" that will be difficult to find parts for in a few years. Which is why I'm still using downtube shifters, 8-speed, and rim brakes. The stuff just works.

Andrew R Stewart 

Compare the number of "my BB clicks/creaks, what's wrong" that are about any type of BB bearing design but not about Phil products that are posted here to those that do include a Phil BB. People that have had no issues generally don't post their happiness so even this metric is not fair. Of the couple of those who did claim their Phil BB was at "fault" one, IMO, was due to improper assembly. The other did seem to be a machining tolerance issue. Score one for the Phil haters. One out of how many other non Phils posts??

I do agree with finding your personal Peter Principle point. Mine is 9 speed. I suspect we are more in line with each other then not, just not our preference in where we spend our $. Andy

79pmooney

+1 The given is that every PW failure gets internet press. No one could possibly track every press fit issue out there.

Peter Principle! Yeah, I stopped at 9 and only one bike every got past 7. Now I am going to ride by two speed. The one with a manual stick transmission. Where I stop, pull out the stick ( a wrench), flip the wheel and ride on. Old school and VERY reliable. Takes kindly to right side crashes and all sorts of abuse far better than the new stuff!

Ben

robertorolfo

I noticed your location says SS Long Island, so can I ask what track she races at? Didn't know there were any in the area, aside from the one in Flushing.

I actually don't really like the look of the "sheriff star" hubs. Just a personal preference thing...

I agree that it's nice to purchase products produced in locations that pay a livable wage, and perhaps even more importantly give those doing the labor enough time/compensation to relax and do the job as well as possible.

I don't think people are trying to "piss on" Phil Wood, but perhaps just offer a counterpoint to those that swear by their stuff blindly, or claim it is vastly superior to anything else. Personally, I really appreciate that Campagnolo products are (generally) designed so that eventual maintenance and repairs can be carried out by the user at home, a consideration that is exceedingly rare these days, if it ever even existed for some companies.

Unfortunately both brands, Wood and Campagnolo, have their images tarnished (in my opinion) by jerks that throw their names around like some sort of status symbol.

veganbikes

What fresh hell is this? A blasphemer! How dare you mock the great Tulio Campagnolo...Kidding kidding. People like what they like.

I don't see Campy or Phil as a status symbol just of good quality long lasting parts. Sure it may look nice and it may have some bling but in the end if it work and works and works without much fuss I am happy.