Turns out clipless pedals no better than flat pedals
07-23-20, 04:42 AM
#201
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If I try to use any flexible shoe for more than 10 miles (New Balance sneakers for example) my feet sore and lactic. This happens with small platforms and large mtb platforms. I might have weak feet, but I doubt it as I frequently walk and run minimalist/barefoot. It could be my size 47 feet being just too large for platforms to support me properly. I know I'm always shifting my feet for a better position.
The issue goes away with stiffer shoes, but with those it's hard to find a comfortable/powerful position for my feet.
Falling off the pedals when riding rock gardens can do that. Especially when you fall along the pedal. One reason why I switched to clipless when mtb'ing.
You may not get those issues but I do. With clipless I can forget about my feet. With platforms I'm constantly shifting my feet and thinking of a better position. I use them on my utility bike out of necessity. But probably wouldn't if I had oxfords and balmorals with spd cleated soles.
You can do those things and that's great. Clipless helps me so I use them. I doubt I could do the distances I do now with flat pedals.
It's not personal. I'm stating what works for me but it might not work for you or others. Though clipless is a pretty neat system, kinda like ski bindings
The issue goes away with stiffer shoes, but with those it's hard to find a comfortable/powerful position for my feet.
Falling off the pedals when riding rock gardens can do that. Especially when you fall along the pedal. One reason why I switched to clipless when mtb'ing.
You may not get those issues but I do. With clipless I can forget about my feet. With platforms I'm constantly shifting my feet and thinking of a better position. I use them on my utility bike out of necessity. But probably wouldn't if I had oxfords and balmorals with spd cleated soles.
You can do those things and that's great. Clipless helps me so I use them. I doubt I could do the distances I do now with flat pedals.
It's not personal. I'm stating what works for me but it might not work for you or others. Though clipless is a pretty neat system, kinda like ski bindings
You're right, you did say "I" , but it was a pretty confusing response to my quote.
I've decided that keeping my feet on the pedals and in a good position must actually be a skill that some people are better at than others just like efficiency at clipping in and clipping out. Part of the problem with this thread is the implicit assumption of several posters (not necessarily you) that platform pedals are used by unskilled riders while clipless riders are skilled.
07-23-20, 07:49 AM
#203
Zip tie Karen
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I really don't understand how these threads take on such a long life. You'd think that the clipless crowd had been hypnotized by evil marketing men into believing something that's been proven not to be true. Really?
Those of us who ride with various clipless systems are convinced that there are things in our pedaling styles (plural) that we can accomplish clipped-in that would be unthinkably difficult to do on a platform pedal, even one with significantly spiked pins.
How many platform riders can ride for a time lifting their foot to tension on the shoe upper for a while letting their foot breathe and the muscles comprising the sole to relax? How many of platform riders can draw their foot backward to engage the hamstrings more for burst accelerations? What about true full-stroke "ankling"? Can you do that with platforms? I doubt it. It was only possible long ago with cleats and toe clips with tight straps.
Lots of nonsense here from riders who haven't really employed clipless pedals to their full capabilities. [shakes head]
Those of us who ride with various clipless systems are convinced that there are things in our pedaling styles (plural) that we can accomplish clipped-in that would be unthinkably difficult to do on a platform pedal, even one with significantly spiked pins.
How many platform riders can ride for a time lifting their foot to tension on the shoe upper for a while letting their foot breathe and the muscles comprising the sole to relax? How many of platform riders can draw their foot backward to engage the hamstrings more for burst accelerations? What about true full-stroke "ankling"? Can you do that with platforms? I doubt it. It was only possible long ago with cleats and toe clips with tight straps.
Lots of nonsense here from riders who haven't really employed clipless pedals to their full capabilities. [shakes head]
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07-23-20, 08:52 AM
#204
Senior Member
I really don't understand how these threads take on such a long life. You'd think that the clipless crowd had been hypnotized by evil marketing men into believing something that's been proven not to be true. Really?
Those of us who ride with various clipless systems are convinced that there are things in our pedaling styles (plural) that we can accomplish clipped-in that would be unthinkably difficult to do on a platform pedal, even one with significantly spiked pins.
How many platform riders can ride for a time lifting their foot to tension on the shoe upper for a while letting their foot breathe and the muscles comprising the sole to relax? How many of platform riders can draw their foot backward to engage the hamstrings more for burst accelerations? What about true full-stroke "ankling"? Can you do that with platforms? I doubt it. It was only possible long ago with cleats and toe clips with tight straps.
Lots of nonsense here from riders who haven't really employed clipless pedals to their full capabilities. [shakes head]
Those of us who ride with various clipless systems are convinced that there are things in our pedaling styles (plural) that we can accomplish clipped-in that would be unthinkably difficult to do on a platform pedal, even one with significantly spiked pins.
How many platform riders can ride for a time lifting their foot to tension on the shoe upper for a while letting their foot breathe and the muscles comprising the sole to relax? How many of platform riders can draw their foot backward to engage the hamstrings more for burst accelerations? What about true full-stroke "ankling"? Can you do that with platforms? I doubt it. It was only possible long ago with cleats and toe clips with tight straps.
Lots of nonsense here from riders who haven't really employed clipless pedals to their full capabilities. [shakes head]
07-23-20, 10:13 AM
#206
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I really don't understand how these threads take on such a long life. You'd think that the clipless crowd had been hypnotized by evil marketing men into believing something that's been proven not to be true. Really?
Those of us who ride with various clipless systems are convinced that there are things in our pedaling styles (plural) that we can accomplish clipped-in that would be unthinkably difficult to do on a platform pedal, even one with significantly spiked pins.
How many platform riders can ride for a time lifting their foot to tension on the shoe upper for a while letting their foot breathe and the muscles comprising the sole to relax? How many of platform riders can draw their foot backward to engage the hamstrings more for burst accelerations? What about true full-stroke "ankling"? Can you do that with platforms? I doubt it. It was only possible long ago with cleats and toe clips with tight straps.
Lots of nonsense here from riders who haven't really employed clipless pedals to their full capabilities. [shakes head]
Those of us who ride with various clipless systems are convinced that there are things in our pedaling styles (plural) that we can accomplish clipped-in that would be unthinkably difficult to do on a platform pedal, even one with significantly spiked pins.
How many platform riders can ride for a time lifting their foot to tension on the shoe upper for a while letting their foot breathe and the muscles comprising the sole to relax? How many of platform riders can draw their foot backward to engage the hamstrings more for burst accelerations? What about true full-stroke "ankling"? Can you do that with platforms? I doubt it. It was only possible long ago with cleats and toe clips with tight straps.
Lots of nonsense here from riders who haven't really employed clipless pedals to their full capabilities. [shakes head]
I agree that arguing that people who use SPDs are experiencing no advantages and are just fooling themselves would be nonsense, but in my case I've been drawn into this thread by ridiculous claims of things that supposedly can't be done on platforms. The things you list are, by definition, things that can't be done without foot restraint. Given that were I to do them, my ankles would cripple me, I feel especially unqualified to express an opinion on whether they bestow an advantage, and will happily defer to people who can do that stuff when they claim it helps them. Essentially, I am disabled from being able to use them, but I think I've compensated somewhat for that by being able to put out a really high level of downward torque over long distances. When we have different abilities we have different strategies for maximizing our capabilities.
But let's be clear, this thread has gotten prolonged at least as much by people saying ridiculous things like you're dumb if you think you can ride distances on platforms, or you can't stand on platforms, or you can't get a good start at a stoplight on platforms, or you can't climb decently on platforms, etc., etc. I don't race, but I zoom by people on SPDs all the time when I'm doing that stuff. They may be a great tool, but the won't make a slow rider into a fast one by themselves. Platforms may very well be completely unsuitable for competitive racing. I don't know, and I really don't care. I just don't get why people who use SPDs feel such a need to convince everyone else that they can't do "serious" riding without them.
..
Sorry about your head shaking. Maybe there's a medication?
07-23-20, 07:59 PM
#207
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John Weirath (bikefitadviser.com) sums things up fairly well, I think:
”Conclusion: Flats can still be effective and useful for all types of riding, but for serious racing clipless pedals are likely the better bet. And clipless are not "required" for serious riding.”
Excerpted from: https://www.bikefitadviser.com/blog/...lipless-pedals
Otto
”Conclusion: Flats can still be effective and useful for all types of riding, but for serious racing clipless pedals are likely the better bet. And clipless are not "required" for serious riding.”
Excerpted from: https://www.bikefitadviser.com/blog/...lipless-pedals
Otto
Last edited by ofajen; 07-23-20 at 08:05 PM.
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