Pahana

How much should a Moulton Tsr 2 speed with a rear rack be in the USA. My local bike shop just got one in and is pricing it at $2,700. I thought they were a little less than that but of course things have changed. I've been thinking about selling my 2 speed Titanium Brompton in exchange to purchase a 2 speed Moulton. I thought the Tsr 2 was going for about $2,000 but I must be wrong. Of course this one has a rear rack but I'm guessing that would add $200 to the price. I must be way off in my thinking here. Any thoughts?

Jipe

Some Moulton current prices in UK.

=moulton&category[]=bikes]Portapedal is selling Moulton in US.

The price you mention seems realistic.

Pahana

I sure you're right but the 9 speed is $2,900 and the 2 speed is $2,700. Like Brompton the price between the 2 speed and 6 speed is just about $200 more. It just seems wrong mentally but on paper I'm sure it's right.

Jipe

Portapedal has a TSR two on his website it cost 2695USD

Joe Remi

At the moment I believe it's a "grab it if you can get it" price. There are precious few new Moultons available anywhere right now, and the used market in the US for modern ones is non-existent. If you're really into the TSR2 you can probably sell your ti Brommie for about that much. Don't doddle!

Jipe

Current lead time for MOULTON
These lead times are the current best estimate from Moulton and are not a guaranteed date.
TSR: 69 weeks
All other models: 69 - 78 weeks

Joe Remi

The Brompton situation is madness, too. It's extremely difficult to find any new ones in stock in the USA, and the CHPT3 models are listing for thousands over MSRP on Ebay. The bike boom + overseas delivery issues of this last year have taken quite a toll on supply.

Jipe

What I wrote above is for UK delivery.

I guess its worse for US !?

blakcloud

Hoop Driver here in Toronto expects the TSR's to arrive spring or early summer. Hoopdriver Bicycles ? Distinctive Urban and Touring Bicycles

Don't know if that is wishful thinking or they really are coming.

Good luck.

Jipe

Traditional Cycle Shop also pre-ordered several Moulton most will only arrive mid-2022 !

Maybe one hint from a Moulton owner: a Moulton, even the TSR, is a fast bike (much faster than a Brompton, even a Superlight Brompton), I would recommend to buy it with a derailleur (TRS9 or TSR22 with drop bar) and not the 2 speed TSR2.

Estuche

Is there a reason you would want a Moulton over your Brompton, if you don't mind me asking? Bromptons can be turned into really capable machines nowadays. For example, it seems you're willing to give up the compact fold, so fitting drop bars and a derailleur is possible with a Brompton.




Further, is your preference for a TSR the larger wheel size and front suspension, or the presumed cost and savings over other models? If the latter, I would also strongly consider an AM from the 80's or 90's, as these bike's suspensions have not changed much, and the Reynolds tubing and relatively smaller size of the AM models are very nice too. Just a thought...

Jipe

Based on my own experience of (heavily) upgrading a Brompton and having also Moulton and Birdy Bikes for comparison, whatever is done, a Brompton will never provide the performances of a Moulton or a Birdy.

I like the Brompton for it ease of use, its compact and quick folding, its decent performances and the riding pleasure it provide. But for performances oriented cyclists, its not the right choice.

For Mouton AM, I recommend not to choose a model with 17"/ETRTO369 wheels because there is only one tire really available, the Kojak, which is a poor performance tire (not really fast, fragile, puncture sensitive, wear fast).

The TSR is the low end Moulton range made by Pashley, but it nevertheless has several qualities of higher end Moulton bikes. With a derailleur transmission and a drop bar, its a very capable bike. I would not recommend the TSR2.

Schwinnsta

This is very subjective at this point. I have in the past owned a Moulton/Huffy 4-speed (circa 1964,, which at that time was evolutionary for me. It was great hauler and a very good small wheel folder. Later I would get Moutlon Land Rover ATB which was a space frame like the TSR. Although it 20 inch wheels it still disappointed me. I think. As bad a the roads are here in New Orleans, neither bike were worth the trade off in bobbing and cumulative suspension losses. I might agree that the Brompton shock absorber is worth it but for a city bike, I could not agree that front suspension is worth the losses. I would agree for a mountain bike depending on the trail that suspension is worth while. Right now I like the Swift but not its fold. I have not had a Dahon I like but I had cheaper ones. I liked the Raleigh Twenty but not its fold or the Whitworth threading, which really dooms it. I would not deny there are roads which the Moulton maybe faster but not most roads. Anyway that is my take. I doubt that I would like a TSR better than the Moulton ATB. Bikes that I would like to try are the new 20-inch Downtube and the Zizzo Liberte.. I am still skeptical of them having the hinge right in the middle where the stresses are highest. This very subjective but so are the perspectives being expressed here.

Estuche

Subjective indeed, it is all a matter of what one needs the most at a given time, and go from there!

Among the many small wheeled bikes I've owned, likely all the popular ones by now, I owned a very light and capable Dahon Hammerhead once. If you like the Swift you might enjoy the Dahon/Tern "triangle" models as well, or the Tyrell FX.

I also agree that investing on a 349mm or 355mm wheelset for a Moulton AM would be rather wise.

One thing I dislike about Moultons is the difficulty of bringing them with me inside buildings, especially if one has made a significant investment in parts, etc. That's not the case for Bromptons, Birdys, or Dahons.

Falconista

Hi Schwinnsta. The TSR has an integrated rear triangle which solved the bobbing of the APB when pedalling. The front suspension of both models can cause bobbing when standing hard on the pedals but less of a trade off against the better ride. I havent tested but I heard that the TSR is quite a lot lighter than the APB too. Moulton is now evolutionary rather than revolutionary but there does seem to be a move in the right direction since the introduction of the APB in 1992.

Jipe

The front bobbing doesn't happen with an efficient pedaling, i.e. on the saddle with a high, regular pedaling cadence (and even better with clipless pedals).

Now, the Moulton, whatever the model, are not folding bikes.

They are only separable.

When split in two pieces, they are still big.

Even with the removal of the wheels (and without mudguards), the two parts remain bulky, nothing comparable in size to a folded Brompton or Birdy.

Only some models (new series Marathon, Single Pylon and Double Pylon, separable Speed) can easily been split further.

But its dismounting and not folding, its for occasional transport in plane, train, not for daily commuting, not to fold to enter a building without letting the bike outside.

For me the best tradeoff, folded size/performances is the Birdy: it rides much faster than a Brompton and folds almost as fast and almost as small. The folding rear rack+low rider+front block make the Birdy a first choice as folding bike for bike travel.

Pahana

I was into the shop to check out the two speed. It was ordered almost a year ago for a customer but he couldn't wait anymore and backed out. As posted here there is more than a years wait and Portapedal is not taking orders on them at this point. Portapedal is now closed Sunday, Monday and now Tuesday. Still they were boxing up bikes and parts as fast as they could. They have two Moulton Xtb sitting in the shop for a year and a half because the owner is out of the country. They are really beautiful looking bicycles and it's a pity no one is riding them. I can't say enough about how good they look. If I had the money I'd make the owner an offer but right now it's not worth it for me. The day after I visited the shop I took out the 2speed Brompton and it rode really well and I decided against a trade off.

tcs

The Moulton intelligentsia inform me that the factory

MOULTON Bicycle Company

can supply different pattern/construction ISO369 (17") tyres with Bridgestone labeling.

Estuche

Moving from 369mm to 349mm or 355mm must feel like a kid at the inauguration of a candy shop

Other than the wheel size, the AM is a brilliant little rocket.

Jipe

Yes, I also read that in "The Moultoneer" (they talk about high quality 17” tires from Schwalbe and Bridgestone, but difficult to call the Kojak a "high quality" tire and its the only one in ETRTO369 from Schwalbe) and I never seen the Bridgestone tire for ETRTO569 Moulton.

All ETRTO369 wheeled Moulton including the special series New Serie Century are factory equipped with Kojak.

tcs

Jipe

You are right, they seems still available but 45GBP for one tire !

Probably cheaper in Japan ?

There was also an announcement of a Joseph Kuosac strozzapreti 25x369 (if I understand well, the same tire as the Joseph Kuosac strozzapreti for Brompton but in ETRTO369) don't know if it was released?

Estuche

Kuosac's was never released in 369mm, just prototypes out there. Factory should abandon that size once and for all.

Jipe

There were pieces of the strozzapreti 25x369 tested in "The Moultoneer" and I found a site who listed them.

Estuche

I've never seen an image of a 369 Kuosac tyre mounted, only a prototype. I had also inquired directly with Kuosac about release date and never ever got a straight answer. Afaik these are unicorns or fairies.