Advice - Mavic Open Pro vs H Plus Archetype Rims
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Advice - Mavic Open Pro vs H Plus Archetype Rims
Trying to decide which rim to buy and I am not very well versed when it comes to rims. Here are the facts:
Bike: Steel Road Frame
700 x 28mm Tires with Tubes
Rim Brakes
Quick Release
Full Carbon Fork
Me: 215 lbs
13-15 mph rider
Due to my size probably 32 or 36 spokes probably butted since I think butted spokes ride a bit nicer than straight.
This is a very nice steel frame. I was planning on building up as kind of a retro build with friction shifters. I believe both the H Plus Archetype and Mavic Open Pro are welded rims from known companies. To me the Mavic Open Pros look a little more retro - kind of a box style rim I guess. Because of that I am kind of leaning toward the Open Pros. But I want the best rim for the money.
Any thoughts on these two rims?
Bike: Steel Road Frame
700 x 28mm Tires with Tubes
Rim Brakes
Quick Release
Full Carbon Fork
Me: 215 lbs
13-15 mph rider
Due to my size probably 32 or 36 spokes probably butted since I think butted spokes ride a bit nicer than straight.
This is a very nice steel frame. I was planning on building up as kind of a retro build with friction shifters. I believe both the H Plus Archetype and Mavic Open Pro are welded rims from known companies. To me the Mavic Open Pros look a little more retro - kind of a box style rim I guess. Because of that I am kind of leaning toward the Open Pros. But I want the best rim for the money.
Any thoughts on these two rims?
#2
Senior Member
I have used both. Both have been excellent. Both have stayed true and are easy to mount tires to. I chose archetype over open pro for my last wheelset because the archetype are wider (17.5 vs. 15mm). I have been very happy with them. Since you want to run 28mm tires, the Archetype would be better choice from and aero and air volume standpoint. You’d be able to run tires at a slighly lower pressure and probably get a rolling resistance benefit as well.
Last edited by DOS; 01-18-20 at 07:17 AM.
#3
Really Old Senior Member
Just speaking from a width stand point.
With either, you can go to the skinniest tire you want to use.
IF you wanted (& if you have room) the wider rim would be a bit more suitable for a larger tire.
You could consider 32/36 F/R.
I built a pair of 32S Sun Rims M 13II's (13.5mm IW) back when I was 250+ and had no problems.
I'm not a masher & try to ride "light".
With either, you can go to the skinniest tire you want to use.
IF you wanted (& if you have room) the wider rim would be a bit more suitable for a larger tire.
You could consider 32/36 F/R.
I built a pair of 32S Sun Rims M 13II's (13.5mm IW) back when I was 250+ and had no problems.
I'm not a masher & try to ride "light".
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You're not that heavy; a 32 hole rim would be fine. Either rim will work well enough that if you rode them back to back you wouldn't be able to tell the difference.
You might also consider the H Plus Son TB-14 and the Mavic Open Elite. Both are excellent choices for the tire size you indicate, or even up to a 32, based on personal experience. Open Elites are pretty much identical to Open Pros except they are single eyetletted instead of double and usually much less expensive and easier to find.
I have ridden both TBs and Open Elites at Eroica, which is a good rought test for any rim.
You might also consider the H Plus Son TB-14 and the Mavic Open Elite. Both are excellent choices for the tire size you indicate, or even up to a 32, based on personal experience. Open Elites are pretty much identical to Open Pros except they are single eyetletted instead of double and usually much less expensive and easier to find.
I have ridden both TBs and Open Elites at Eroica, which is a good rought test for any rim.
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Mavic changed the extrusion and finishing of their Open Pro rims, it's called the Open Pro UST. I've run Open Pros on a number of bikes for years and really like them (although I ride light/spin and weigh 150lbs). Last season I picked up some for a pair of new bikes (for the wife and I). I found the new wider and stiffer design to not be what I wanted so went back to the "classic" Open Pro (now called the "C" version).
But for a bigger rider who will run 28+ tires the UST version is a very nice choice. The same well made product. All 4 rims I built up laced and tensioned up well with no issues. Of course the braking is so smooth.
I have built up a number of various H Plus Son rims and while I had no issues with any of them they don't create any passion in me. But I have to remember that rims are like tires, a wear item that has a finite life and are best thought as being a consumable. (Yes, I know this is so counter to the current trend of pricing wheel systems that are so expensive that only sponsored riders can afford my view point) Andy
But for a bigger rider who will run 28+ tires the UST version is a very nice choice. The same well made product. All 4 rims I built up laced and tensioned up well with no issues. Of course the braking is so smooth.
I have built up a number of various H Plus Son rims and while I had no issues with any of them they don't create any passion in me. But I have to remember that rims are like tires, a wear item that has a finite life and are best thought as being a consumable. (Yes, I know this is so counter to the current trend of pricing wheel systems that are so expensive that only sponsored riders can afford my view point) Andy
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#6
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At your weight I would go with a 36 hole rim with double butted spokes. I prefer the Open Elite over the Openpro because there is more aluminum in the rim and I had Open pro rims that cracked at the nipples.
elite
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At 278lb I run the open pros 32h and have had eyelettes crack and the brake track wear through but never had a lack of spokes be an issue. Although I don't ever use less than 32h except on my kid's bikes I don't feel that 36h has been necessary with any quality rim made in the last 20 years unless you're doing serious off-road stuff or a burly tandem crewm. From my experience newer, wider rims are nicer and any newer wheels I've built up I've gone wider in. The spokes have started to fail on my remaining set of open pros, when I finally get around to rebuilding them before the season starts again I'll be looking to a velocity a23 or quill or something from H Plus Son. Can't see on mavic's website if they've started making these wider in the non-carbon version but I'd look to see if any has a 23mm wide outer profile or not.
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H Plus Archetype are not tubeless ready rims ... get something like HED belgium Plus or Kinlins that are not hookless
#9
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#10
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You're not that heavy; a 32 hole rim would be fine. Either rim will work well enough that if you rode them back to back you wouldn't be able to tell the difference.
You might also consider the H Plus Son TB-14 and the Mavic Open Elite. Both are excellent choices for the tire size you indicate, or even up to a 32, based on personal experience. Open Elites are pretty much identical to Open Pros except they are single eyetletted instead of double and usually much less expensive and easier to find.
I have ridden both TBs and Open Elites at Eroica, which is a good rought test for any rim.
You might also consider the H Plus Son TB-14 and the Mavic Open Elite. Both are excellent choices for the tire size you indicate, or even up to a 32, based on personal experience. Open Elites are pretty much identical to Open Pros except they are single eyetletted instead of double and usually much less expensive and easier to find.
I have ridden both TBs and Open Elites at Eroica, which is a good rought test for any rim.
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The open pro might make a better matching build for the frame but performance wise I'd go with the h plus archetype (due to the rim profile and width).
#12
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I don’t like that the seams aren’t welded on the elite
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DOS- Have you had a problem with the non welded seam on a Mavic rim? Andy
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At 230 pounds, I have had 3 Open Pro rims fall apart on me. 2 cracked at the nipples. 1 split on the brake surface.
All 3 different builders and different shops. I lost faith after that. Not one of them lasted more than 2,000 miles.
Also, the eyelets separated from the rim and were very noisy, hated them!
#15
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Addding: Otherwise, the wheels were fine. They stayed true and lasted a long time. It was just annoying. The other thing I didn't like about the Open Sport rims is that they were kinda hard to get tires on to. I never understood exactly why since my open pros were easy to mount tires to.
Last edited by DOS; 01-20-20 at 08:43 AM.
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And the OP asked for those features when?
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OP: Both rims are good, and either will work fine for you. If you want to keep the option of trying tubeless down the road, go with the H+ Son The Hydra, which is basically a tubeless version of the Archetype.
I, too, value reliability in a wheelset. You can probably get away with 32h, but a compromise might be 36h rear and 32h front, since the rear wheel takes more of the load.
I, too, value reliability in a wheelset. You can probably get away with 32h, but a compromise might be 36h rear and 32h front, since the rear wheel takes more of the load.
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Yes. I had a set of open sport wheels (open elite predecessor) where the joints weren’t great so I could feel them when braking.
Addding: Otherwise, the wheels were fine. They stayed true and lasted a long time. It was just annoying. The other thing I didn't like about the Open Sport rims is that they were kinda hard to get tires on to. I never understood exactly why since my open pros were easy to mount tires to.
Addding: Otherwise, the wheels were fine. They stayed true and lasted a long time. It was just annoying. The other thing I didn't like about the Open Sport rims is that they were kinda hard to get tires on to. I never understood exactly why since my open pros were easy to mount tires to.
What I would argue about is the reliability/in situ "strength" of a seamed rim being less (in a way that matters) then that of a welded rim. The seam is under compression from the spoke tension. If done well (and that's where I think Mavic is better then most) the seam is square in both planes and the rim has no wiggle (meaning spoke tension issues on build up) at the seam as well as minimal pad grab. Andy
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I would go archetype but you may want to check out the H Plus TB14's, they are low profile classic look, double eyelet pretty wide and come in 32hole.
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#20
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The Mavic Open Elites arrived today. look like decent rims, not as deep as Open Pro and non-welded joint. The joint is pretty darn smooth on the brake surface -- can't feel it. Measured ERD at about 609 mm and the irms are about 1mm out of round, not much. Better than Sun rims. My limited experience with the Open Pro rims is that they are round.
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I believe both the H Plus Archetype and Mavic Open Pro are welded rims from known companies. To me the Mavic Open Pros look a little more retro - kind of a box style rim I guess. Because of that I am kind of leaning toward the Open Pros. But I want the best rim for the money.
At the same thickness, a 25mm deep extrusion is twice as resistant to bending forces as a 19.5mm one.
You'd also have to try very hard to buy a rim with worse aerodynamics than the venerable Open Pro.
Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 01-22-20 at 03:53 PM.
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You can use a wet stone on the joint when it's not perfectly level to avoid an annoying ticking sound when braking.
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The Mavic Open Elites arrived today. look like decent rims, not as deep as Open Pro and non-welded joint. The joint is pretty darn smooth on the brake surface -- can't feel it. Measured ERD at about 609 mm and the irms are about 1mm out of round, not much. Better than Sun rims. My limited experience with the Open Pro rims is that they are round.