big john

$1000+ difference? I don't know about Breadwinner frames but Gunnar frames have proven reliable. Mine is True Temper OX Platinum tubing. Most of the several hundred people in the 2 clubs I ride with are on carbon fiber frames.
Breadwinners are great looking frames, for sure.

Jburrow

i appreciate all of the feedback folks! At this price point, titanium is also an option. Thoughts on that material for a frame?

billridesbikes

I think you can't go wrong with Breadwinner. Not full custom frames, but sort of a semi-custom approach.

Even though Dario passed away Pegoretti is still making amazing steel frames, but more in a road bike than gravel bike vein. You can go full custom with Pegoretti. Just remember the Italians take all of August off (I'm not joking).

Rob English, English Cycles, makes incredible steel frames that are full custom and will basically make any bike you want.

Jburrow

thanks for the post! I hear nothing but praise for English cycles. However, they may be a bit beyond my reach. Will need to look into them.

big john

I also have a Seven which I bought used, I couldn't afford one new. It is extremely stiff, similar to a CAAD5 I used to have. In my old age I am thinking about getting something more forgiving, or ride the Gunnar more often.
A friend has a Moots and it felt springy compared to my Seven.

mstateglfr 

You asked a question and I answered with an example thst recently happened.
I trust you have had a different experience with frame use- most people have good experience.

The guy's Giant carbon frame is over 10 years old and has at least 30,000mi on it. In that time, I trust the bike had fallen a bunch without incident.
But on this day in this manner, the frame broke.

You listing personal examples doesnt change anything.

MattTheHat 

Nor does your friend’s example. Steel frames were failing as a result of wrecks and abuse many years before carbon frames even existed.

I’m simply pointing out that carbon frames don’t fail and magically become useless from nicks and scrapes as the post I was responding to claimed. If your friend’s Giant carbon frame survived for ten years and suffered from “bunches of falls” you’re making my point better than I did.

mstateglfr 

Yeah, this seems to be turning into some sort of grudge to prove me wrong. I just responded to your question and younclearly didn't like the response.
I agree that steel frames can fail.
I disagree with your newest claim that a bike falling a bunch of times over a decade inevitably leads to a weakened frame. It certainly might,, or it might not. Totally depends on the frame and where the impacts are.


I'm out on this back and forth.

Dean V

I am wondering what the magical properties of steel are that the OP refers to?
I have ridden a number of quality steel bikes and not come across one that does anything better than carbon.
If you like the look of them or want something a bit less common, go for it.
But not if performance is your main priority.

MattTheHat 

LOL. Where did I say that?

Pb_Okole

Check out the framebuilders.com. Great list of frame builders in most materials and from several countries.

Bob Ross

Wait, so steel doesn't have any "magical properties" but carbon does "perform" better???

The 41 never fails to deliver! :::gets popcorn:::

Jburrow

I want to thank everyone for their input and time in responding. It has been helpful to my wife and I as we consider which bike to go with.

What we are thinking as a result of our inquiries that my wife would prefer custom steel. Her needs are difficult to size right with a production model, and she feels a custom bike that would last decades is the way to go for her. She wants a steel bike, and she is leaning toward Gunnar, Waterford, and Breadwinner. She likes the Speedvagen options, but wants to do something where I can be catered to as well (a one-stop shop). I am not too difficult to fit on a production bike, which makes something like Gunnar/Waterford made-to-measure an interesting option since I can get a semi-custom bike without breaking the bank that would fit me like a glove. Though, Breadwinner would certainly be capable of helping me out and her as well.

From what I read on here and other places, very few folks have ever regretted getting a Gunnar/Waterford bike. The 100% made in America thing is cool, but it isn't something we are hell-bent on getting. We have had great experiences with Giant/Liv in the past (which is why I considered getting an off-the-shelf CF Revolt Advanced 0 since I am not too difficult to fit). However, the thought of spending a little extra money to get a made-to-measure lightweight high quality steel frame that is within the weight of the Giant is tempting as it may fit better. Plus, they would be able to work with my wife to get exactly what she needs (most important to me).

Again, thank you everyone!

Dean V

Yes.

terrymorse 

Depends on the meaning of "perform", doesn't it?

Unlike steel, carbon fiber:

1. doesn't rust
2. doesn't suffer galvanic corrosion
3. has a higher strength-to-weight ratio
4. has a higher stiffness-to-weight ratio
5. allows easy "dial in" of directional stiffness/compliance
6. tolerates infinite stress cycles
7. can be repaired with sandpaper and epoxy resin

Bob Ross

Oh yeah, I don't disagree with any of those claims, they are indeed facts.
Whether any of those qualities allow a bicycle to "perform" better is where the gray area lies...it all comes down to how one measures "performance".

Chandne

I'd prob look at Carl Strong and Independent Fabrication for a custom steel frame. I'd trust their alignment techniques and choice of tubes for your weight and riding style too.

Bob Ross

Carl Strong stopped building in steel a little over a year ago. He only does titanium now (or, via his Pursuit Cycles venture, carbon fiber).

Chandne

Oh darn! He was one of the best options in steel. That is too bad.

aliasfox

You mentioned titanium a few posts up, and in my mind, I don't think anybody does it better than Moots. I visited their Steamboat Springs factory when I was there for a wedding in the summer of 2019, a real nice bunch of guys. I think they still do custom, but they also have a very wide variety of sizes - much more than most manufacturers. They are, however, quite pricey - coming in over $5k for a Routt RSL frameset. But if you're still looking in that direction, I'd take a look.

It's funny, shortly after I got my Lynskey in June 2019, I saw a leftover Moots Vamoots with (I think) Ultegra 6800 at a shop in Palo Alto, going for something like $3,300 - if I hadn't *just* bought and received my Lynskey, I likely would've purchased that Moots on the spot. Sure, previous generation Ultegra and rim brakes only, but it was in my size and it was gorgeous...

Of course, if I had known what was coming the following March, I would've maxed out my credit card on all the leftover bikes in that showroom - ridden each one a few times, and sold them at a profit in the summer of 2020...

Jburrow

oh that would have been a nice find. We were thinking Mosaic or Moots for Ti. But, my wife likes the idea of having a steel bike. As do I! The more I read into Gunnar and Waterford, the more impressed I am with that operation. We are leaning toward that option where I can get a Gunnar to suit (I’m not difficult to fit) and my wife can get a full custom (she is difficult to fit off the shelf).

as someone mentioned above, the Pegoretti would be amazing - truly works of art. However, I would be terrified riding it spiritedly down some gravel routes haha.

sixer

I'm not sure about cost, but I love my Mercian. Best steel frame bikes in the world as far as I'm concerned. https://www.merciancycles.co.uk/

Jburrow

i will check them out! I appreciate the feedback!

bruce19

I don't subscribe to the theory that any frame material has "magical" qualities. My main road bikes are steel (Guru Sidero) and AL (CAAD 12). I've ridden CF, a mid-grade Bianchi borrowed from a friend who was a Bianchi rep. My CAAD 12 is nimble, quick and pretty comfortable. My Guru is a bit more nimble, as quick and more comfortable. My only gripe with the Bianchi was that it resonated every noise the bike made. That's the best I can describe it. Oh, I do have a second gripe. A decent CF frame will cost you more than a comparable AL frame but that's not about the material itself.

sprocket67

The Rivendell Joe Appaloosa would be great in that price range. Check out Analog Cycles online. They have them in stock in multiple sizes and you can spec out a killer build.