obrentharris 

They're a handsome set of engraved bars and stem with a recessed stem bolt. The price was right. I couldn't resist, but I know nothing about them.









The markings on the right side of the bars are a map of Sicily with the words "Giro Di Sicilia."

My internet search skills are pedestrian at best but I came across a couple of references, one suggesting that they were made by Holdsworth, another that they were made by G.B. (Gerry Burgess) I'm vaguely aware that sometime in the late fifties or early sixties anything Italian became quite popular in British cycle racing circles so this lends some credence to the G.B. or Holdsworth theory.

Does anyone have any more information about these? I like them enough (and I'm foolish enough) to build a bike around them but it would be nice to know a date for them and a definite country of manufacture. Does anyone have a link to old Holdsworth or G.B. catalogs that would help me figure this out?

Thanks,
Brent

juvela

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shape of stem bears some resemblance to that of FIAMME







one rudimentary check you could make is to measure the thread of the expander bolt and binder bolt

my guess would be that it shall be metric

this would presumably eliminate both Gerald Burgess and Holdsworthy

speculation -

one circumstance which could explain the rarity is if product was contract manufactured and customer was only able to find the funding for a single production batch

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there were also stems marked simply Il Primo; the owner of this pista example writes it to be MILREMO -

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/ra...d-stem.205693/


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daka

Very pretty! All of the GB bars that I have experience with have a narrow bulged area where the stem clamps the bar. This includes the Ventoux bars that have engraving. The larger diameter area on your new bars is much wider and includes the engraved area. Not conclusive, but perhaps a hint they are from someone else.

Bad Lag

My major contribution - they are stamped not engraved.

Nonetheless, the bars are really nice.

bulgie 

I've had Fiamme and Primo stems, though I can't remember if I held both in my hands at the same time. I assumed they were the same stem with different names stamped in, but Brent's has that sunk-in expander bolt head, where my Primo was like the Fiamme, an outie not an innie. (Not a Severance reference!)

Take care to look hard at the top of the knuckle that clamps the bar, looking for cracks. I have seen two of these that cracked there (Primo brand, I think, though I may be thinking of a Fiamme). Unknown prior usage, so maybe they were clamped down on a too-small bar at some point. The cracks were small and hard to see but I'm confident they would have broken eventually if they hadn't been taken out of service. Another possible cause is spreading them to get the curve of the bars to pass through. Unlike most other stems, these have no narrower part of the clamp to facilitate bar insertion, so with a tight bend it can be impossible without some spreading.

Peter Weigle liked those stems, for his resto-mod projects I think. He put a couple of 'em in the rotary table on the mill and made a circle of small holes ("drillium") in the back, facing the rider. Not much weight shaved off, just a cute visual feature.

Never seen those engraved bars, very funky. I guess it would be a sin to tape the bars all the way up and hide any of that!

EDIT: yeah I called 'em engraved bars, so what?! They're definitely stamped not engraved, thanks for the reminder Bad Lag . But bikies seem to like calling 'em engraved, me too I guess.

Mark B

obrentharris 

@juvela thanks for reviving my quest for information about this stem and handlebars.

The handlebar binder bolt is very close to 8mm (7.9mm) and the threads are very close to 1.00mm, close enough that I was ready to call the threads metric. The expander bolt, however, is significantly larger than 6mm and smaller than 7mm. (6.35mm). It's threads are also very close to 1.00. This leads me to wonder if the binder is actually 5/16" x 26tpi and the expander bolt is 1/4" x 26tpi. Unfortunately I don't have a 26tpi thread gauge.

So perhaps they are indeed of British origin. I shall search for a 26tpi thread gauge. I may be able to borrow one from a friend who repairs stringed instruments: 26tpi somehow found a home in many of the threaded hooks that hold tight the heads of banjos.
Brent

juvela

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thank you for this reply and information

one thing not as yet discussed is diameter of clamp and of bar centre

also diameter of quill

sometimes drop bars carry a marking on their destro end

if contract produced by FIAMME would expect a clamp & bar centre of 26.0mm and a quill diameter of 22.2mm

have not as yet received/found these dimensions on the Il Primo steel example posted above


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obrentharris 

Thanks for your further investigation.
Bar diameter at clamp hovers around 25.5. Quill diameter hovers around 22.2.
As for the bolt heads, the expander bolt is a nice fit in either an 8mm socket or a 5/16" socket; the clamp bolt is a very nice fit for a 12mm socket but loose in a 1/2" socket.
The bar diameter beyond the bulge hovers around 23.8mm.
Brent

obrentharris 

Thanks for the warning. I have now inspected it carefully with a magnifying glass and feel secure that the stem is not compromised. My guess is that the bar's smaller diameter in the curves, beyond the bulge in the clamping area, has allowed them to be installed and removed with minimal stress to the stem.
Brent

repechage

I like those bar and stem. Never seen prior.

juvela

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here is another example of the "Il Primo" steel stem posted earlier

this one of interest in that the ground colour on the emblem is blue rather than the green of the previous individual

as reader's know, a light blue is Italy's national colour for international sports competitions

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juvela

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thank you

the 23.8mm size is very much of a "standard"

there are a good many Brit & Yank machines where bar lacks a bulge at its centre and the bar and stem clamp express a diameter of 23.8

curious as to bar breadth

at this era 38cm was very much of "a standard" for drop bars
even on cycles with 65cm frames manufacturers would fit a 38


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obrentharris 

Bars are 40.5cm center to center. Perhaps these are products of the early seventies?
Brent

juvela

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thank you

this is curious

the industry standard is to measure c-t-c but one major producer - Tecno Tubo Torino - measures overall

a c-t-c measurement on the half cm is somewhat unusual; makes one wonder if done in inches... which would tend to support the suggestion of a Gerald Burgess origin...



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repechage

yeah, but bars can get bent and tolerances are not that tight.

I now find the center of the bar and use a framing square on a tabletop to check the projection left to right. There are a lot of bars that are not symmetrical.

Kekec1965

I bet real ctc is 16" as is on two of Primo Extra bars I have on my bikes. Il Primo Milano stem and bars Primo Extra/ Giro di Sicilia are both made by/for Holdsworth. I' in possession of the stem too, missing its pinch bolt - but will probably replace that GB Kromo one on the CB. Il Primo Milano is a badge that Holdsworth used, nothig to do with Italy but to make the bike faster in the eyes of beholder. Similar stems with badges were made by Dawes too . All 1950s era.

Primo di Lusso must be Fiamme made IMO


1950 Claud Butler

Ephgrave

Dawes