BeetleJuice

Need some advice here on a frame size purchase. I was fit on a Scott Solace a while back but the frame is getting tired. Overall the bike and fit has worked for me. I'm looking at a Felt Fr1 54 or 56. The 56 has a longer reach than my Scott by about 9mm. see chart.
Typically I would just go with the 56 but I have a back condition and I'm not sure the extra reach is a good thing? I could compensate for the extra reach with a shorter stem OR adjusting the saddle some. I know the 54 could me made to work but would require adjustments as well.

Thoughts on a size? My biker fitter is out of commission for a while and isn't responding to emails. I would like to make the right decision the first time.

Thanks
brian
________________________(own) (own)_______(considering)
____________________Framed Scott Solace Felt 54__ Felt 56
Top Tube Eff cm________56________56 _______54.8____56.3
Seat Tube cm__________52________56_______50.5____52.5
Seat tube Angle cm_____73________73.5______73.5____73.5
Chainstay length mm___417________405______405_____405
Headtube Length mm__ 180________185______135_____155
Reach mm___________388________384.6_____385____394
Stack _______________NA________592.3_____550_____572
Can't upload a graphic!

DaveSSS 

Don't overlook the stack difference. If your bike has a 592mm stack, plus some spacers, the much shorter stack heights will be a problem.

mstateglfr 

Yeah, moving out from 384.6mm to 394mm of reach PLUS dropping down from 592.3 to 572mm of stack height could be a bit rough.

10mm of reach can be offset with a shorter stem and/or more compact bars.
20mm of stack height could be more difficult to overcome, assuming your current bike also uses spacers. You could get a kinda goofy looking +35 degree rise stem. And/or you could use riser drop bars from ControlTech, Ritchey, Specialized, and others as they are 10-20mm of rise, depending on model.

ClydeClydeson

If your current ride has a stem with not too much rise and not too little reach, assume you can duplicate that setup on the Felt with a different length stem. 10 or 20mm is not much.

GamblerGORD53

It's laughable that you are looking at the 54. Everything but the TT on the 56 screams midget size also.
A shorter stem is never the problem it's made out to be.
I would look at the 58 cm or just forget this model.

BeetleJuice

Thanks for the responses. I build bikes but I don't know bike geometry well, so that's why I'm asking. Last thing I want is buying a frame online and then having to return it. Given the responses here, I'm going to pass on the Felt model. I just may ride my current bike(s) for another year and then look at a Canyon. Save for something better.

Thanks!

Iride01 

If you aren't sure, and don't know why stack and reach are important as well as other geometry, then you really need to try that bike on for size in person.

BeetleJuice

True but sometimes online deals makes that impossible. That's why I'm being cautious about the size/fit. Asking about this on this forum really helped my decision.
I've decided I'm going to look at Canyon endurance bikes. Problem is no stock these days.
Thanks.

Koyote

What on earth does that even mean?

BeetleJuice

Old, dinged up, overused, past its prime.

Koyote

'Overused'? What does that mean? Does it complain bitterly on steep climbs? Does it go home to lie down before you are done riding? Does your frame wake up all achy the day after a hard ride?

I've seen bf posters make all kinds of excuses for wanting new bikes, but this is a new one.

Russ Roth

Stack is an easily understandable thing. I've never seen a good explanation of the importance of reach vs top tube length. Care to elucidate?

BeetleJuice

I expect it to spontaneously combust soon.
SERIOUSLY it has a lot of miles. There's nothing wrong with wanting some new. Perhaps a stiffer frame or BB.

Koyote

Nothing at all wrong with wanting a new bike. But don't delude yourself (or us). Frames don't really 'wear out' or get 'tired.'

PeteHski

Reach is a better reference as you know how far forward you are going to have to reach relative to the BB i.e. where your feet are fixed. Effective top tube length is a bit more vague as it doesn't relate directly to the BB, which should be the centre of your whole bike fit. That's why reach & stack are now generally considered the primary frame dimensions as they both relate directly to the centre of the BB.

For the OP, the 54 Felt is a non-starter with a stack 42 mm lower than a known comfortably fitting frame! The reach is the same and the reason the effective top tube is shorter is because the head tube is shorter, so it's being measured at a lower reference point. When the stack heights are so different you can't really compare reach directly. If you added 42 mm of stem spacers in the smaller frame to make the stack height identical, then the effective reach would be about 13 mm shorter because of the head tube angle.

PeteHski

Yeah, but they do get "old"

Russ Roth

So why does it matter more? This is the thing that's always under explained. The effective top tube is also vague but tells me if a frame is within a range of what fits. Since I ride seated knowing how far the relative distance from the seat to the stem is seems better than a number that tells me how far from the bb to the stem. I don't sit at the bb. I will agree that ett is a vague number, I've never seen it as more than a starting point, same as when toptubes were straight across. Just don't see how reach is any more effective or imparts any more info. Stack is just something good to know especially with flexibility.

pdlamb

I'm always amused by these "fit me over a text medium" discussions. If the person asking doesn't know his (or her) size, they need to find someone who can measure them, put them on a bike or something like it, and figure out what size they need.

On a forum like this, I think everyone should buy a 62 cm frame. If they can ride it, well and good. If not, they can sell it at a discount to someone who can ride it (like me!) and buy something smaller.

mstateglfr 

Top tube length is impacted by seat tube angle. Reach is not impacted by that.
Reach helps measure how the bike will fit while standing as a result. It really helps for MTB where you stand a bunch, but as one who stands on most every hill for road/gravel, it is beneficial there too.

The top tube length of some tri bikes, mtbs, etc are totally misleading if you go just off that number. The reach measurement normalizes things. This really all started 30ish years ago with sloping top tubes and its why using just the seat tube length is also quite worthless for measuring a bike's fit as compared to another bike.

Stack and reach measurements are great because they normalize comparing bikes that are different designs.
I own a 58cm gravel bike, a 65cm road bike, a 65cm gravel/touring bike, a 63.6cm road bike and a 66cm road bike that also measures 63 depending on how its measured.
^ seat tube measurement is worthless when comparing different style bikes. So is top tube length.
Reach(and stack) also really help when comparing a bike that has a number size with a bike that has a t-shirt size. How does a size 54cm road frame with a sloping top tube from company A compare to a size medium road frame with a level top tube from company Z?

Iride01 

When I wrote that, I was tossing about both effective top tube length and frame reach in my head. Reach just simply came out the winner at that moment. <grin>

And some don't give the effective top tube length. Which is not the same as top tube length, though many label top tube length when they are actually giving effective top tube length.... so see, top tube is confusing to those that don't know, and frame reach has always been frame reach.

As long as the bikes being compared are all the same basic type, road bike to another road bike, TT bike to another TT bike or cruiser bike to a cruiser bike, then the comparison will be close enough. However to simply rely on reach and stack or effective TTL and stack, will still lead one to picking the wrong bike if they have finicky preferences. Some people seem to have troubles with things that don't feel initially like what they are use to.

DaveSSS 

Reach is measured from the center of the BB, so it eliminates the effect of different seat tube angles. Once you've figured out the reach that's perfect for you, the STA only affects your choice of seatpost setback. My ideal is a 525mm stack, 370mm reach and 74 degree STA to use a 25mm setback seatpost. If a frame has 380mm of reach, I'll need a 100mm stem instead of a 110mm. Also, reach can only be compared at one stack height. If two frames are under consideration and one has 20mm less stack, assume that 20mm of spacer will be used and subtract 6mm from the reach of that frame.

tomato coupe

Yes, they do. There's nothing more embarrassing than passing on an afternoon ride because your bike has to get to the 4:30 earlybird special.

Rdmonster69

I am building up a 20 year old Litespeed titanium frame. Doesn't look a day over 10. It looks fantastic.

PeteHski

You don't sit at the BB, but your feet are fixed to it and the distance from there to the head-tube is also a fixed distance. So I find reach useful exactly in the same way you and I find stack useful. Reach and stack together provide a fixed reference point to the BB. Saddle and bar position relative to those 2 points are adjustable variables. As also mentioned, when you are standing reach is all that matters as far as length is concerned. So I prefer to know what the reach is from the BB and then I know I can always position my saddle with my preferred setback, regardless of top tube length. If the reach is far too short or long, then I know I'll never be able to get my preferred saddle setback.

BeetleJuice

Bike geometry today is different and confusing. This frame I was looking at is online (selling out) and my $300 bike fitter is out ill, so I came to this site. Obviously I went to great lengths to pull up geometry of my bikes and the potentially new ones I'm scoping out to compare. All 6 bikes I have are 56 (keep in mind I build bikes and enjoy wrenching just as much as riding). As others have pointed out the reach/stack values are important to understand. I learned a lot going through this exercise and I appreciate the meaningful responses I got. BTW, If I end up getting a 62 I will let you know.