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What does "unsupported" mean?

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What does "unsupported" mean?

Old 11-09-20, 05:53 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by KC8QVO
The thread title says it all.

Why I ask is for a few reasons. It appears that term is used in a lot of different ways at times.
...
There are lots of bike touring terms that are tossed around that have no formal definition since there is no official body like UCI that approves definitions.

So, it means whatever you think it means.
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Old 11-09-20, 06:01 PM
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rhe·tor·i·cal ques·tion
noun
  1. a question asked in order to create a dramatic effect or to make a point rather than to get an answer.
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Old 11-09-20, 07:23 PM
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I think the term is usually self supported. Support typically means having a vehicle carry stuff for you. I personally would still call it self supported if I get stuff mailed to me or what ever. Your trip, you get to make the rules I guess.

On a trip of much length you will need to replenish stuff that runs out or replace stuff as the seasons or the geography changes. I don't see much difference between buying it and having it mailed from home. When the seasons change having the gear for the season mailed from home isn't much different than buying new gear.

When you don't need your cold weather bag any more you might mail it home and get a lighter one send to you. As far as I am concerned you are still self supported. If you choose to call it supported that is your call.

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Old 11-09-20, 08:06 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by mev
Not sure why it matters but seems pretty straightforward to me:
Support is someone else helping along the way. Most common examples is carrying gear or being there to address issues that come up during the ride.
Unsupported is not having that support.

Whether you cook your meals or sleep in a motel or heaven forbid filter water from a stream, doesn't make a difference.
Ditto
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Old 11-09-20, 08:19 PM
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Yeah, in the end it doesn't matter that much. Obviously, there will be some grey areas. But at least we generally know what it means if someone says they went on a supported tour of XYZ vs someone who says they did an unsupported/self-supported tour of ABC. We also mostly know what creditcard touring is vs. tenting/camping and so on.

Hell, most of us also have a good idea about the difference between bike touring and bike packing, even though the latter is a subset of the former. There is even "basket packing" now. Guess what that involves?
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Old 11-09-20, 09:01 PM
  #31  
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What someone personally thinks they are doing doesn't matter really but I think it matters a bit for discussion sake. In some ways I think we should try to speak a common language. That is all.
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Old 11-10-20, 03:41 AM
  #32  
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Unsupported = I'm carrying all my own "stuff"

Supported = I'm paying someone else to carry all my "stuff"
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Old 11-11-20, 02:15 AM
  #33  
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It’s gonna be a long winter! 😂
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Old 11-11-20, 06:30 AM
  #34  
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I will use the term self supported rather than unsupported. I think unsupported is a great term for the more legalistic needs of those competitively racing across the country where rules matter.

After giving this more thought I think the biggest factor if not the sole factor is having a support vehicle following along. Some might even call guided trips self supported as long as there are no support vehicles and everyone is carrying their own stuff other than maybe some distributed group gear and I wouldn't quibble with that. Adventure Cycling uses "Self Contained" and "Van Supported" as the relative terms for their guided tours. There may be some gray area in there where the guide do more or less of the grunt work, but whether they give a rider a patch kit, help them patch a tire, or even patch it for them I'd question whether the supported vs self contained line had been crossed.

To suggest that planning, mail drops, or having things sent from home disqualifies a trip as self supported seem silly to me. I have never done a guided trip or a vehicle supported one, but have taken help from vehicles at times. I still consider all my trips self supported. I kind of like AC's terms "Self Contained" and "Van Supported" better for touring though.
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Old 11-11-20, 07:36 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by staehpj1
After giving this more thought I think the biggest factor if not the sole factor is having a support vehicle following along.
Interesting point.

Another interesting guy I ran in to on my way up the trail was a guy jogging down the route. His trip was a fundraiser for service dogs in law enforcement. I did a search on google real quick and can't find anything on it at the moment. However, I was stopped for lunch somewhere along the Homes Co. trail, I believe, and saw him jogging - slowly - down the trail. He looked like he wasn't having much fun so I asked if he was OK and had enough water. That must just have been his "poker face" as he was moving - he was just fine and we talked for a bit. Thats when I found out what he was doing. Here he was jogging - nearly non-stop - the whole length of the route. I asked him what support he had and he pointed to his tiny backpack. That was it, aside from some resupply stops at stores, and few rest stops. Rain or shine, day or night, he was out there jogging. Crazy. He was probably already 100 miles in when we ran in to each other. I'm sure he had some bug-out options. But to go that light and minimalist is a bit off the wall. Though, just looking around the neighborhood all season it seems pretty common for people to be out there jogging daily - no matter the weather/temp - but they aren't out there but minutes to hours, not several hundred miles and many days straight.
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Old 11-11-20, 09:01 AM
  #36  
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All of the above answers are why this term has never been fully defined. Everyone has their own definition and no one wants 97 different forms of touring. Therefore, we basically have self-contained, supported, or credit card.

Now lets try to define "fully loaded" touring
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Old 11-11-20, 10:17 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by TulsaJohn
Now lets try to define "fully loaded" touring
Please no!
I always cringe at that term. I hate it when somehow I am not "fully loaded" when I carry all the stuff I need to accomplish the same functions because my stuff doesn't weigh enough
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Old 11-11-20, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by andrewclaus
Just to complicate matters, there's "self-supported." I use that term for my style. I'll ride into town for groceries, meals, showers, motels, etc. I'd consider "unsupported" doing none of the above, relying only on what you carry with no outside support, even getting your water from natural sources. (That definition comes more from the long-distance hiking/trail running world.)
That’s over complicating it again. What you are describing is just unsupported touring. I do some off-road tours where I carry all that need but that’s only for a few days. If I’m going for weeks at a time, I carry what I need for most things but I’m not going to carry weeks or months of food. I’m still “unsupported” because I’m carrying everything I need to live on the road.
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Old 11-11-20, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by staehpj1
Please no!
I always cringe at that term. I hate it when somehow I am not "fully loaded" when I carry all the stuff I need to accomplish the same functions because my stuff doesn't weigh enough
I don’t think anyone is really going to make a distinction based on how much mass you are carrying. The fact that you are carrying extra mass that you need to camp, cook and sleep is “loaded” vs carrying only a credit card. As a hair splitter extraordinaire, even that is too fine a hair split for me.
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Old 11-11-20, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by staehpj1
Please no!
I always cringe at that term. I hate it when somehow I am not "fully loaded" when I carry all the stuff I need to accomplish the same functions because my stuff doesn't weigh enough
To me "fully loaded" simply means (for me and my type of trips) carrying a tent, cooker and whatever else I want/need. For a creditcard tourer, "fully loaded" also mean "whatever I need/want". So you carrying what you need with lighter gear will still make you "fully loaded". I also tend to include water and food when I think of that term. Sort of like "fully dressed". There is no minimum number of clothing items for that, other than you're covered up according to the weather and comfort.
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Old 11-11-20, 12:01 PM
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Not really.

Recently on tours I've seen a dramatic difference between the older traditional 4 panniers, HB bag rider (fully loaded) and the bike packing inspired UL tourer. Both are self supported, carry all their own gear but the rigs look totally different.





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Old 11-11-20, 12:20 PM
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I still say that "fully loaded" is a relative term. The bike with the trailer in the first pic may indeed be "fully loaded". But I'd call that "overloaded" for any kind of progress except down a hill.
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Old 11-11-20, 01:31 PM
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The trailer is a bit much but the bike in the first picture represents what is traditionally known as full loaded touring. If someone was describing a fully loaded tour that is where the mind goes to. If it turned out they were more in line with the second picture one might have to readjust and say "oh, you were going light or bike packing". If the story teller insisted no.. they were fully loaded touring one might say " we have very different ideas of what fully loaded means.

It's not a judgment thing. Just a means of common meaning in communication.
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Old 11-11-20, 01:44 PM
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Well, to me, "fully loaded" is a relative term. A "fully loaded" bikepacking trip will usually be less loaded down (at least volume wise) than a "fully loaded" bike touring setup, which will again be different to me doing fully loaded bike touring on my cargo bike. A car can be fully loaded, a pickup truck can too. As can a big van and a lorry. It is all relative.
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Old 11-11-20, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute
I don’t think anyone is really going to make a distinction based on how much mass you are carrying. The fact that you are carrying extra mass that you need to camp, cook and sleep is “loaded” vs carrying only a credit card. As a hair splitter extraordinaire, even that is too fine a hair split for me.
It was many years ago, but I was not allowed to post pictures of my fully loaded rig on a fully loaded picture site because I only had two panniers. Rules require four. Otherwise it wan't fully loaded. So not really mass, but that was kind of implied. Perhaps volume rather than mass...

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Old 11-11-20, 04:20 PM
  #46  
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Volume (weight being a corollary to this)?
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Old 11-11-20, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet
Not really.






Does anyone not see the irony of this image, an overloaded (to some) bike but stopped in front of a Burger King!! I guess they didn't have any food on all of those bags....JK
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Old 11-11-20, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by staehpj1
It was many years ago, but I was not allowed to post pictures of my fully loaded rig on a fully loaded picture site because I only had two panniers. Rules require four. Otherwise it wan't fully loaded. So not really mass, but that was kind of implied. Perhaps volume rather than mass...
Really! I doubt that site has seen the advancement of light and tiny gear. I find volume can often be a bigger issue than weight especially food. Like a huge bag of potato chips, ultra lightweight but lots of volume.
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Old 11-11-20, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by balto charlie
Really! I doubt that site has seen the advancement of light and tiny gear. I find volume can often be a bigger issue than weight especially food. Like a huge bag of potato chips, ultra lightweight but lots of volume.
This is one problem I have with the trend in portraying UL bikepacking rigs as normal. Perhaps that works in areas where one can sleep in a light bag and bivi sac or hammock but in the mountains, or during shoulder seasons in Canada, it's the sheer volume of sleeping bag and warm clothing, not the weight, that makes such small baggage unrealistic.
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Old 11-11-20, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by CargoDane
Well, to me, "fully loaded" is a relative term. A "fully loaded" bikepacking trip will usually be less loaded down (at least volume wise) than a "fully loaded" bike touring setup, which will again be different to me doing fully loaded bike touring on my cargo bike. A car can be fully loaded, a pickup truck can too. As can a big van and a lorry. It is all relative.
The thing is, no one talks about a "fully loaded" bike packing trip. Those two terms don't go together when people talk about bike packing. You can go ultra light bike packing or bike packing.

Of course, anyone can say anything they like, but if you are on a bike packing forum and you say you are fully loaded bike packing people will ask for some sort of clarification because it is not common terminology. Conversely, if you are on a touring site and say you are fully loaded touring most people intuitively understand what you mean.

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