Bike Caravan/Camp Trailer for Touring? Build #5
08-22-21, 08:53 AM
#51
Senior Member
y'know, there are already hard-shell bike campers on the market.
"This prototype bicycle camper seems like a great idea, but unless you live in a very flat region without high winds, the Wide Path Camper might be better suited to using as a backyard microcabin." [weight 88 pounds w/o gear loaded]
https://www.treehugger.com/thmb/b50w...723e6c86d2.jpg
https://www.treehugger.com/micro-cam...icycle-4857718
others have used the car-hauled pop-up format, miniaturized. 4-wheel independent suspension, low aerodynamic profile, 120 liters of storage, weight without gear.........just 68 pounds.
https://hiconsumption.com/worlds-sma...-by-kamp-rite/
https://www.eta.co.uk/wp-content/upl...Bushtrekka.gif
https://cdn.hiconsumption.com/wp-con...shtrekka-3.jpg
https://www.eta.co.uk/2012/04/19/a-t...ind-a-bicycle/
08-22-21, 09:08 AM
#52
Member
Thread Starter
back in ancient times, i pulled a bob along with 4 panniers.
the fully-laden bike, including up to 5 gallons water (10 2L soda bottles), was about 175 pounds.
guessing the trailer would account for 40-80 pounds, depending on how much water.
bob weight was 13, and was rated to carry 70.
drug that puppy about 20,000 km over the course of 18 months.
not toooo bad, if young and in good shape......wouldn't wanna do it now.
slow to gain speed, slow to stop. okay once in motion.
hills and mountains were difficult, but doable with 16" or 17" gearing.
most difficult were 1) the short, steep, constant up-n-down parts of northern
new zealand, and 2) the constant headwinds of western australia.
with this here trailer, the weight can be dealt with. just need the proper
gearing and a strong enough rider. the wind is going to be the real
problem, especially side winds. something this large pulled by a bike
is going to be unstable in anything stronger than a light breeze, and
deadly when passed by 18-wheelers at speed.
the fully-laden bike, including up to 5 gallons water (10 2L soda bottles), was about 175 pounds.
guessing the trailer would account for 40-80 pounds, depending on how much water.
bob weight was 13, and was rated to carry 70.
drug that puppy about 20,000 km over the course of 18 months.
not toooo bad, if young and in good shape......wouldn't wanna do it now.
slow to gain speed, slow to stop. okay once in motion.
hills and mountains were difficult, but doable with 16" or 17" gearing.
most difficult were 1) the short, steep, constant up-n-down parts of northern
new zealand, and 2) the constant headwinds of western australia.
with this here trailer, the weight can be dealt with. just need the proper
gearing and a strong enough rider. the wind is going to be the real
problem, especially side winds. something this large pulled by a bike
is going to be unstable in anything stronger than a light breeze, and
deadly when passed by 18-wheelers at speed.
For example here are a couple of the units I have studied for this build.
Home » Widepathcamper
This one I believe comes in at about 132lbs.
It is shown in this picture with a non-electric bicycle and there are videos on YouTube of it being pulled by non-e-bike tow bike. Although there are some with as well.
Things I don.t like about this trailer is the construction material, It seems flimsy, and provides no insulation. I also don't like that it is in two pieces. To me it makes for a flimsy build and is difficult to completely seal against drafts and insects, especially over time.
Fahrradwohnwagen – ModyPlast (mody-plast.de)
These trailers come in at 93-106lbs depending on model and equipment.
I am not sure of the construction material on this one. Again though I don't think it has much insulation properties to it.
This one does seem better built and I like the brakes, but I do believe they only work as parking brakes.
The door is, to me, is placed way to far forward and is very small. I think getting in and out of this one would be a chore unless you were very flexible.
Bicycle Caravan / Bike Camper | Bicycle caravan
I could not find a weight on this one, but is probably my favorite of the the ones I looked at. It is nearly perfect outside of maybe a bit too small of wheels. I was originally going to go with the 16" wheels, but opted to go to a 20".
I don't think this one is manufactured, but is mimicked in quite a few builds. If I were to guess I would think this one is coming in around 110lbs,
There are a tone of other concepts out there that are not manufactured, but built my individuals. Some are quite a bit bigger than what I am building. I don't know the weights of these units, but it does seemed that caravan/camp trailers are viable for bicycles.
George.
08-22-21, 02:46 PM
#53
Senior Member
y'know, there are already hard-shell bike campers on the market.
"This prototype bicycle camper seems like a great idea, but unless you live in a very flat region without high winds, the Wide Path Camper might be better suited to using as a backyard microcabin." [weight 88 pounds w/o gear loaded]
https://www.treehugger.com/thmb/b50w...723e6c86d2.jpg
https://www.treehugger.com/micro-cam...icycle-4857718
others have used the car-hauled pop-up format, miniaturized. 4-wheel independent suspension, low aerodynamic profile, 120 liters of storage, weight without gear.........just 68 pounds.
https://hiconsumption.com/worlds-sma...-by-kamp-rite/
https://www.eta.co.uk/wp-content/upl...Bushtrekka.gif
https://cdn.hiconsumption.com/wp-con...shtrekka-3.jpg
https://www.eta.co.uk/2012/04/19/a-t...ind-a-bicycle/
"This prototype bicycle camper seems like a great idea, but unless you live in a very flat region without high winds, the Wide Path Camper might be better suited to using as a backyard microcabin." [weight 88 pounds w/o gear loaded]
https://www.treehugger.com/thmb/b50w...723e6c86d2.jpg
https://www.treehugger.com/micro-cam...icycle-4857718
others have used the car-hauled pop-up format, miniaturized. 4-wheel independent suspension, low aerodynamic profile, 120 liters of storage, weight without gear.........just 68 pounds.
https://hiconsumption.com/worlds-sma...-by-kamp-rite/
https://www.eta.co.uk/wp-content/upl...Bushtrekka.gif
https://cdn.hiconsumption.com/wp-con...shtrekka-3.jpg
https://www.eta.co.uk/2012/04/19/a-t...ind-a-bicycle/
08-22-21, 04:42 PM
#55
Full Member
I think if I was going to try it I would probably build it out of 2 or 3mm plywood over bead board covered with kevlar/polyester weave and epoxy. 8 ounces per square foot., very stiff and puncture resistant. I would do a drop down type where I could raise up the roof.
Some of those campers ahhh Norfolk & Way.
Some of those campers ahhh Norfolk & Way.
08-30-21, 12:22 PM
#56
Member
Thread Starter
Tested fitted the back wall after cutting out.
After the test fit it was time to cut out the door. I had already canvased the inside wall so I marked my door pattern out.
Then I cut out a small channel for the hot wire to follow.
After the test fit it was time to cut out the door. I had already canvased the inside wall so I marked my door pattern out.
Then I cut out a small channel for the hot wire to follow.
08-30-21, 12:39 PM
#58
Member
Thread Starter
I have been trying to find a hitch that was going to work well for this project. In most cases the hitches I have seen on other builds were home grown. There are a few common hitches that attach to the rear axle and they are easy to find. I needed something that attached to the seat post or a bracket that came out behind the rear tire. There are a few of those out there, but they usually proprietary and cost quite a bit. I was watching a person in Europe that showed this hitch briefly in his video and so here it is. They are a bit hard to find to get to the states, but it is a nice sturdy hitch and should work fine for this build.
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09-07-21, 10:07 PM
#59
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,173
Bikes: Surly Disk Trucker, 2014 w/Brooks Flyer Special saddle, Tubus racks - Duo front/Logo Evo rear, 2019 Dahon Mariner D8, Both bikes share Ortlieb Packer Plus series panniers, Garmin Edge 1000
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Very interesting build. Thanks for posting and keep the pictures/documentation coming. Good stuff.
In the Utility forum I have a couple threads going on trailers.
The back story to it is I did a trip across Ohio last Fall (2 segments with about a week and a half off the trail in between). I had 8 saddle bags (4 Ortleib panniers and 4 dry sacks), a handlebar bag, and still had stuff strapped on outside of the proper bags. Lotsa stuff and lotsa weight. I estimate I had around 200lbs of gear.
On the first segment, about half way through, I ran in to a fellow bike tourer that was pulling a home made trailer with all his gear instead of panniers/bags on the bike. After the several days on the trail I had with all my gear and looking at his set up - the trailer really made sense.
I got to measuring up volume requirements and looking at trailer designs to come up with a starting point. Fast forward this past spring and I was given an old, never really used, kid trailer. So that got my wheels spinning (figuratively and literally). Now I have something to work with to add to, change, etc as I see what I like and what I don't.
One thing I want to address as you are working through your build here - please pay close attention to the wheel set you use. The wheels (hubs/axles, rims, and tires) are the last place on the trailer you want to skimp. The reason being is they could be under a lot of weight. The trailer weight empty is one thing. If the client intends to do any multi-day trips with this then they are going to have a good amount of gear and supplies weight to add to it - all of which will be mostly carried by the trailer wheels.
Rolling resistance is a major concern. What will largely affect this, not entirely, but mostly is air pressure in the tires. You want tires that can hold 50-80psi. For reference, the trailer I have came with tires that are only rated for 35psi. I felt the rolling resistance with, what I would call, a light load immediately. On my trip last weekend I had about 200lbs of gear just to give it a heavy test load for some miles and it was quite slow. Harder tires would make a world of difference. Tire design can affect rolling resistance, also. For example - the inexpensive kid BMX bike dirt tread vs a proper commuter/tourer road tire. First look for the high pressure rating then pick a tread pattern that has the rating you are looking for.
If I were to build up a wheel set for a trailer it would be with a good hub, 20" wheels, and 1.35" to 1.75" tires. My folding bike (a Dahon Mariner) has 20" wheels with around a 1.5" width and that seems about right. The current tires on my trailer are 16" x 1.75". Aside from the low pressure, they work OK. I wouldn't want a wider tire for trailer duty - at least for road/trail use.
Again, keep in mind getting the pressure rating up from the get-go and keep the tires at the rated pressure. That will significantly affect the pull-ability of the trailer.
As far as the comments earlier about going up hills with heavy trailers - yep. No two ways about it - you're going to be going very slow up inclines. Low gearing (REALLY low - like 16-20t chain ring - chain ring, not cog/cassette - although that is what mine is from - a cassette adapted to chain ring duty) is required - along with several options for repairing broken chains including quick links and a whole new chain. If you're putting that much pressure on your chain its going to give out eventually (I'm a member of the "dropped a chain on the ground" club" - but I prepared for it having what I needed to fix it on-the-go). I am not sure if the E-bike the client is wanting to use this with is going to have any beefier of a chain than a normal bike, or if it is belt drive? Just be aware - under heavier loads things tend to go "bang" quicker.
I am not sure how much of a market there will be to a bike camper trailer here in the US. There was an interesting one called the Midget Bushtrekka by CampRite. They are more known for cot tents then had a wild hair idea to make a cot tent part of a bike trailer. The product flopped - they had a tandem axle trailer design with a walking beam type suspension. If memory serves, what killed the product was either the wheel axles or the walking beam axles would break frequently.
Personally, I would not be in the market for a bike camper trailer, per se. However, I have given a lot of thought to the fabrication of one as part of my ideal custom touring trailer build. The trailer primarily would have to be for gear/luggage/supplies. Then from that base idea I could add on to it.
From a use-case perspective of my last long trips - what would be important to me in a "camper trailer" is camp efficiency - set up and tear down speed. How quick can I park and be horizontal protected from the elements? How quick can I get up and break camp? What would also be important is how to level the trailer. On canal tow path trails there are stretches of trail that seem to go on forever that have steep drop offs either side of the trail that make it next to impossible to stop and stealth camp. If there were a way to make leveling legs, like a bigger RV/camper trailer (the jack stands on the corners), that might make it possible to set up on inclines and still keep a level bed. Preventing the leveling legs from sinking in soft ground would be important, as would extra guy lines potentially.
Going back to the idea of camp efficiency - one aspect of the Midget Bushtrekka that I never did like is the fact that the cot folds up and has to be folded up for transport. That almost is as much work as setting up and tearing down my dome tent, just that it folds up attached to the trailer. I still need to roll up my sleeping bag, pads, put clothes away, empty the tent, etc, etc. If there were a way to keep "camp" set under way that would significantly increase the efficiency idea. The question is how to mold that aspect in to a trailer designed to carry gear.
In the Utility forum I have a couple threads going on trailers.
The back story to it is I did a trip across Ohio last Fall (2 segments with about a week and a half off the trail in between). I had 8 saddle bags (4 Ortleib panniers and 4 dry sacks), a handlebar bag, and still had stuff strapped on outside of the proper bags. Lotsa stuff and lotsa weight. I estimate I had around 200lbs of gear.
On the first segment, about half way through, I ran in to a fellow bike tourer that was pulling a home made trailer with all his gear instead of panniers/bags on the bike. After the several days on the trail I had with all my gear and looking at his set up - the trailer really made sense.
I got to measuring up volume requirements and looking at trailer designs to come up with a starting point. Fast forward this past spring and I was given an old, never really used, kid trailer. So that got my wheels spinning (figuratively and literally). Now I have something to work with to add to, change, etc as I see what I like and what I don't.
One thing I want to address as you are working through your build here - please pay close attention to the wheel set you use. The wheels (hubs/axles, rims, and tires) are the last place on the trailer you want to skimp. The reason being is they could be under a lot of weight. The trailer weight empty is one thing. If the client intends to do any multi-day trips with this then they are going to have a good amount of gear and supplies weight to add to it - all of which will be mostly carried by the trailer wheels.
Rolling resistance is a major concern. What will largely affect this, not entirely, but mostly is air pressure in the tires. You want tires that can hold 50-80psi. For reference, the trailer I have came with tires that are only rated for 35psi. I felt the rolling resistance with, what I would call, a light load immediately. On my trip last weekend I had about 200lbs of gear just to give it a heavy test load for some miles and it was quite slow. Harder tires would make a world of difference. Tire design can affect rolling resistance, also. For example - the inexpensive kid BMX bike dirt tread vs a proper commuter/tourer road tire. First look for the high pressure rating then pick a tread pattern that has the rating you are looking for.
If I were to build up a wheel set for a trailer it would be with a good hub, 20" wheels, and 1.35" to 1.75" tires. My folding bike (a Dahon Mariner) has 20" wheels with around a 1.5" width and that seems about right. The current tires on my trailer are 16" x 1.75". Aside from the low pressure, they work OK. I wouldn't want a wider tire for trailer duty - at least for road/trail use.
Again, keep in mind getting the pressure rating up from the get-go and keep the tires at the rated pressure. That will significantly affect the pull-ability of the trailer.
As far as the comments earlier about going up hills with heavy trailers - yep. No two ways about it - you're going to be going very slow up inclines. Low gearing (REALLY low - like 16-20t chain ring - chain ring, not cog/cassette - although that is what mine is from - a cassette adapted to chain ring duty) is required - along with several options for repairing broken chains including quick links and a whole new chain. If you're putting that much pressure on your chain its going to give out eventually (I'm a member of the "dropped a chain on the ground" club" - but I prepared for it having what I needed to fix it on-the-go). I am not sure if the E-bike the client is wanting to use this with is going to have any beefier of a chain than a normal bike, or if it is belt drive? Just be aware - under heavier loads things tend to go "bang" quicker.
I am not sure how much of a market there will be to a bike camper trailer here in the US. There was an interesting one called the Midget Bushtrekka by CampRite. They are more known for cot tents then had a wild hair idea to make a cot tent part of a bike trailer. The product flopped - they had a tandem axle trailer design with a walking beam type suspension. If memory serves, what killed the product was either the wheel axles or the walking beam axles would break frequently.
Personally, I would not be in the market for a bike camper trailer, per se. However, I have given a lot of thought to the fabrication of one as part of my ideal custom touring trailer build. The trailer primarily would have to be for gear/luggage/supplies. Then from that base idea I could add on to it.
From a use-case perspective of my last long trips - what would be important to me in a "camper trailer" is camp efficiency - set up and tear down speed. How quick can I park and be horizontal protected from the elements? How quick can I get up and break camp? What would also be important is how to level the trailer. On canal tow path trails there are stretches of trail that seem to go on forever that have steep drop offs either side of the trail that make it next to impossible to stop and stealth camp. If there were a way to make leveling legs, like a bigger RV/camper trailer (the jack stands on the corners), that might make it possible to set up on inclines and still keep a level bed. Preventing the leveling legs from sinking in soft ground would be important, as would extra guy lines potentially.
Going back to the idea of camp efficiency - one aspect of the Midget Bushtrekka that I never did like is the fact that the cot folds up and has to be folded up for transport. That almost is as much work as setting up and tearing down my dome tent, just that it folds up attached to the trailer. I still need to roll up my sleeping bag, pads, put clothes away, empty the tent, etc, etc. If there were a way to keep "camp" set under way that would significantly increase the efficiency idea. The question is how to mold that aspect in to a trailer designed to carry gear.
09-07-21, 10:17 PM
#60
Senior Member
...
One thing I want to address as you are working through your build here - please pay close attention to the wheel set you use. The wheels (hubs/axles, rims, and tires) are the last place on the trailer you want to skimp. The reason being is they could be under a lot of weight. The trailer weight empty is one thing. If the client intends to do any multi-day trips with this then they are going to have a good amount of gear and supplies weight to add to it - all of which will be mostly carried by the trailer wheels.
One thing I want to address as you are working through your build here - please pay close attention to the wheel set you use. The wheels (hubs/axles, rims, and tires) are the last place on the trailer you want to skimp. The reason being is they could be under a lot of weight. The trailer weight empty is one thing. If the client intends to do any multi-day trips with this then they are going to have a good amount of gear and supplies weight to add to it - all of which will be mostly carried by the trailer wheels.
if you don't switch to a stronger wheel, do carry axle grease and fresh bb's, and required tools
to rebuild on the side of the road when the trailer wheel freezes up.
fun fact! with a dry bag secured to the trailer, the whole shebang will float when fjording
flooded roadways...but the trailer wheel hub will still be under water even if your bike
hubs are not.
09-09-21, 06:33 AM
#62
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Hey George, nice to see you here as well. Are we going to be seeing a new side of Overlanding? Once you are done with the build, you should post the finished product pictures over on OB… that is if you think you might start making more of these.
09-11-21, 07:41 AM
#63
Senior Member
Just wanted to say that I have been enjoying following. It is pretty far outside my typical touring interest/experience, but your work and the associated links have been interesting. There are so many different approachs and ideas. Some just seem crazy heavy and impractical and some have some pretty slick engineering, but they are are all kind of fun to check out.
I get a kick out of building very lightweight kayaks, canoes,and other small boats. I'd think many of the same techniques could be applied. A cedar strip built trailer could be light, strong, and beautiful to look at. Composite techniques could also be really light and strong. Thin (2-4mm) stitch and glue okumne ply would make a great trailer too.
Do folks really manage to support much e-assist with solar panels on these rigs? Maybe as geezerhood gets more and more entrenched I may want to let the sun assist my climbing at some point
For now just packing super light still seems to be than answer, but maybe somewhere down the road who knows...
I get a kick out of building very lightweight kayaks, canoes,and other small boats. I'd think many of the same techniques could be applied. A cedar strip built trailer could be light, strong, and beautiful to look at. Composite techniques could also be really light and strong. Thin (2-4mm) stitch and glue okumne ply would make a great trailer too.
Do folks really manage to support much e-assist with solar panels on these rigs? Maybe as geezerhood gets more and more entrenched I may want to let the sun assist my climbing at some point
For now just packing super light still seems to be than answer, but maybe somewhere down the road who knows...
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