enso_on

hi,

i'm negotiating a sale with a japanese seller who is not fluent in english. my translation of his japanese for the below top tube discolorations are that there were "two paint baldness, so i
painted them with a touch pen. and there is a dent at the bottom of the front side of the mark, about 3cm at a depth of 1mm. we have not repaired or painted."

i'm obviously concerned about the areas where the pen was used to color in. does this top tube require repair, replacing or is it fine the way it is? the bike is in japan
and i can't see it in person. would rust issues be another concern?

thank you for any insights.

j

Andrew R Stewart 

Sure look to be common (for track racing) handlebar impact dents. Generally these are more cosmetic than a structural concern. What i would be concerned with is if there's a sharp crease at the bottom or edges of the dents. Also if the TT was a really thin walled one (like a .7/.4/,7 butt profile). Do know that many steel frames are being ridden every day with worse dents and without issues.

Now if you ask about value and the bike's worth that's a whole different thing. Andy

enso_on

yes, common handlebar dents but they almost appear to be filled in with something like bondo...

and now i see small dents on the down tube above the decal. since i can't identify an actual dent on the top tube, these may be what
the seller is referring to.

nagasawa exclusively uses tange no.1 & no.2 tubes for track frames and i believe the down tube of tange #1 is butted to .8/.5/.8 mm, while the #2 is .9/.6/.9 mm.

Andrew R Stewart 

I believe you are correct in the Tange gauges. Bondo/body putty is used for filling dents on repaints often enough to not be surprised by its presence. Andy

veganbikes

They have the Five Gold protector but it doesn't seem like anyone used it and whoever thought it was a good idea to just sharpie the thing is silly. It is a Nagasawa which is a nice bike but for me it might be a pass (however skinny tired brakeless bikes aren't for me I do enjoy fixed gears and love a good Nagasawa though) but for you, you have to determine if you want to live with that. Like Andrew R Stewart said pretty common top tube injuries on track bikes probably not a worry unless creased they just look unsightly as is.

If you end up getting it I might get some proper nail polish and cover it up.

enso_on

yeah, it's as if the frame protector was an afterthought to act asa cover up. i've been looking for a nag in my size but i really just want to rescue this frame if it's salvageable. make it my bike for short trips to
the coffee shop or bar. speaking of the kashmax frame protector, considering what people are asking for them these days, the suntour superbe pro cranks and wheelset on this bike may be worth the asking price (1k) before shipping. but, it may be worth the time and a bit more money to find one in better shape...

easyupbug 

Bondo is commonly used for minor repairs and often it is difficult to get a good paint match but this bondo job looks very sloppy which to me is a red flag.

FastJake

Given the sloppy work I assume these are small dents covered by a huge amount of bondo and paint. Or they could be huge dents. I'd pass unless the components alone are worth the price. I would consider the frame "free".

Real track bikes are pretty dumb on the road, but you can ride what you want... (Coming from someone that has ridden >30,000 miles on fixed gear road bikes.)

bikemike73 

If you just want a bike for " short trips to the coffee shop or bar" any bike would do.

Given the " unknown" of the damage , I would pass.

Could be a HUGE dent/ crack.....could be a small dent/ crack.

As above said.....consider the frame " free" if really want it.

There are MANY bikes out there for sale.................keep looking

enso_on

yeah, i think i'm going to pass. i was falling into the pitfall of anchoring on a decision to justify it but your collective prudence won out.

veganbikes

Well if it has a full Superbe Pro Track gruppo it might not be a bad idea at 1k if you are cool with the top tube issues.

enso_on

this is what i keep coming back to. the seller tells me that no repair/bondo was applied, just raw steel was exposed when he got it and he applied japanese felt tip pen to cover it up. obviously, odd and a telltale sign that there would be two separately exposed areas on the top tube. but as a "beater bike," it would be cool..

on a similar note, does anyone have info on contacting mr. nagasawa directly? i've heard he is not taking new orders but may still repair old builds but i can't seem to find any way to reach him in case i go this route.

xiaoman1 

Op
Replacing the tube and it seems like a lot of cost/effort for a "beater"......as mentioned the creases on the bottom are suspect, unless just a reflection. BTW, Bondo is use extensively in the automotive repair industry, with no issues with matching paint when using it and primer is applied properly..
Best, Ben

Erzulis Boat 

That's a Nagasawa. That "damage" is very typical. I would prefer a frameset without that, but when it comes to a Keirin Nagasawa frameset, beggars can't be choosers...........if the price is reasonable of course. Only a few of those are made a year.

Erzulis Boat 

That is no beater.

Erzulis Boat 

It looks like a small dent. It can be repaired with a new paintjob, and wouldn't require Nagasawa to replace the top tube. If it bothers you, any money you "save" now on that frameset, will be offset by a huge margin if you try to repair/repaint. The secret to rare/desirable frames is just pony up the cash initially and get the best example you can find. Money and time ahead in the long run. Always.

ETA- The frame doesn't have to be crashed to get top tube dings. More than likely the tubeset is Ishiwata 019/022, and it will dent just by the stem/bars swinging around if you pick the bike up without also holding on to the stem.

xiaoman1 

Agreed and thus my quotation marks. OP called it a beater.
Best,Ben

Erzulis Boat 

I apologize if it came out that way- Yes, that bike is no beater!

xiaoman1 

EB,
Did not read it that way, all is good.....just laughing at the OP calling it a beater then thinking about replacing the top tube.....its a great bike, no doubt about it.
Best, Ben

easyupbug 

You could take a chance, "if you can't "buff that right our" our local framebuilder has rolled a top tube, filled and painted for me at $400 using Imron, blast or chemical, 2 coats each primer, paint, clear, decals extra. If he does not think the rolling will work it is $100 to replace the TT and $350 paint the bike, decals extra.

I should add no risk, he works on a Marchetti frame table.