Kilroy1988 

It certainly looks like one under the other. My 1950 Continental had a nice transfer style example, for sure...

-Gregory

obrentharris 

Components

For perhaps the only time in my life I get to correct @juvela. The headset is Brampton Alatet. (which sure looks like the TDC)




Bottom Bracket cups are Bayliss Wiley. I did not find this BB in VeloBase but an old ebay listing referred to it as the "featherweight" model.
Spindle is TA.




Crankset is first generation TA.




Herein lies my tale of woe. Avert your eyes all ye of faint heart and weak stomach.



I was putting the final turn on the non-drive side crank fixing bolt when I heard a nasty cracking sound. The photo above is the result. I guess I'm not the first one to encounter this: Below is a photo comparing the cracked arm with a newer TA arm. Note on the newer crank (right) the rounded corners in the square hole and the increased size of the entire crank end.



I think my chances of finding an orphan first generation arm are slim so I shall content myself with a mismatched arm for now.

Pedals are also Brampton, missing one dust cap. This model I could not find in VeloBase, nor did a crude Google image search turn them up.
Look at the wear on them. A well-ridden bicycle! I won't show you the Brampton chain but it was stretched more than just about any chain I've ever encountered.







Toe clips are Brooks. I remember these from the 1970s. Were thay made any earlier than that?




To be continued...

Brent

obrentharris 

Thanks for this keen observation. Perhaps we can just make out the bottom edge of the older transfer sticking out below the newer sticker.

Now for some soul searching: Do I peel off the newer sticker in hopes that the older transfer is in better shape? I think I'll call it historical evidence and leave it as is.
Brent

Kilroy1988 

obrentharris

Looking good, Brent! Sorry about the crank arm... So I knew this other example was posted around here somewhere. Finally found it.

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...n-clubman.html

So the serial # thing is getting stickier for me, but I am now willing to accept that your frame may be from '54-55, though how my Super Python with the much earlier frame number is from the same time beats me... The way whoever figured this out and started describing it on the internet makes it as if the C serials lasted half a decade, the Ds flew by in two years, then the Es last almost until the early '60s... Kind of perplexing!

The same randonneur bars feature on the above example as yours and mine. The photograph of Clark Gable riding a English lightweight presumably sold by Hans also shows randonneur bars. Ha!

-Gregory

obrentharris 

Components Part II

I will admit to a weakness for older hubs and these really strike my fancy. BH Airlite Continentals.








Dunlop "Special Lightweight" steel rims.




Cyclo "Type B" freewheel




GB "Coureur Plus" brake calipers. Anyone know of a source for reproductions of the little GB medallion that went in the middle of the fixing bolt?




GB "Super Hood" brake levers with integral adjusters. I think @iab mentioned in a different thread that he and another list member are working on half hoods for these. I will certainly be a customer.




GB "531" stem with unmarked rando bars. A handsome stem I think. Does the "531" mean it's made with Reynolds 531 tubing?




Finally a Brooks B-17 standard saddle which will probably fall apart the first time I ride it.





Brent

obrentharris 

Thanks for the additional thread link. I can feel myself getting sucked into the vintage Carlton whirlpool!
Brent

Charles Wahl

Looks like the owner spent a ton of time in the two gears adjacent to the 14.
I really like the GB logo on the front of the stem.
Thought at first glance that the brake lever says "Super Kool".
I would not ride that saddle, but keep it (along with the cracked crank arm) as "unusable but original" parts.

Kilroy1988 

Yes, indeed. There's an identically shaped GB stem that says "Kromo" that was made from Accles & Pollock Kromo, which was really the only tubing that was considered competition for 531 in the British lightweight industry throughout the 30s-50s. Reynolds came out supreme and A&P went on to focus on modern furniture construction during the postwar years. The frames I see most with Kromo in the '50s were Dawes, who must have had quite a contract for the stuff. The Dawes Kromo decals were always cool looking...

-Gregory

Big Block

You need to look harder.
Do a comparison with these ones of mine I identified.



as for that cracked crank arm, you may also follow the path I am taking for a Lytaloy crankset.
And I am the one who is slowly working on the GB Superhood half hoods. Also for the 1952 Hobbs Blue Riband that the pedals and crankset are for.

obrentharris 

Thank you @Big Block for the pedal information and the suggestion for recreating the TA crank in a manner similar to your amazing Lytalloy project. Unfortunately I'm afraid that if the Juy 543 mech is out of my budget, so would be the work that must go into the crank recreation!
Your Hobbs Blue Ribband is fabulous!
Brent

obrentharris 

@retyred sent me some photos of the slip of paper found in the seat tube. It is tough to tell a whole lot from the photos so I will try to post higher resolution images once I have the paper in hand.

This is not a sales receipt, but rather a description written on the back of a sales receipt for an unrelated bicycle rim. The information found on the slip of paper is quite interesting though.
I will let him describe the pertinent details:

"Those key words are the following:

1. The number ‘24’ as in 24”
2. The phrase ‘two tone Red f????. Perhaps ‘frame’?
3. The phrase’ ‘Darker head a seat panes’
4. ‘Ohrt’ in upper left hand corner.
5. Four digit number ‘8-303’ in upper right hand corner. Perhaps a work order or PO number?

Finally, when the paper is turned over and reveals the most important detail: the transaction date on the sales receipt. July 31st /57 !"

So it appears that @Kilroy1988 was correct about the 1957 date of manufacture.

Brent

Kilroy1988 

obrentharris The idea that this bicycle had a receipt that showed it was clearly sold in 1954 pretty much turned a lot of my research upside down... I don't enjoy the fact that others were mistaken, but I must admit relief. I was nearly ready to toss out my research and the idea that I eventually post relevant information online to help people discern the date and model of their pre-TI/Raleigh Carltons.

By the way, your bike, that receipt, and the direct correlation between the two will be a very important piece of evidence for whatever presentation I finally put forward. Once you get it please do share some photos of the paperwork! Fascinating stuff, really... Cheers!

-Gregory

MaxKatt

Interesting stuff on that Hans Ohrt shop if you Google it.

davester

Fantastic bike, Brent. Hopefully I'll get to ride alongside it someday. I would love to up my bike game with something rare and old like that.

obrentharris 

Another little detail, Accles & Pollock stamp on steerer tube.



Brent

Kilroy1988 

Ah, ha! The frame clearly has the typical "Guaranteed made from Reynolds 531 butted tubes, forks, and stays" decal on it, so it seems you have a replacement fork or one that may have been chosen from a pile because it was already fully chromed, as ordered by Hans or his client. Or else it was even supplied by Hans himself from some inventory... Very interesting! Kromo was not unknown but unusual in the Carlton lineup, so I suspect the fork may have some particular connection to the shop in Beverly Hills.

Your bike has a story to tell, Brent. It's really great!

-Gregory

daka

Or perhaps the Carlton policy of using whatever was nearby/on-hand that we are familiar with with the Raleigh-branded Carltons was already in place in 1957? After seeing seamed head tubes in both of the Raleigh Internationals I worked on this summer it occurred to me that they should have a special Reynolds decal made up: "Guaranteed built with SOME double-butted Reynolds 531 tubes, forks, stays....."

Kilroy1988 

Oh, for sure. I mentioned that possibility in the post above. Since a fully-chromed fork was required, they might have already had a useful Kromo one laying around the factory.

All of this is really making me regret not tearing down my Hans Ohrt Carlton Continental a couple of years ago... It would have been interesting to confirm the fork material, peek into the seat post, etc... Brent's investigative style is inspiring!

-Gregory

daka

I, too, am enjoying Brent's foray into the past. Great thread for those of us that like this era of cycling history.

retyred

Am really enjoying this thread. Reminds me of the old serials I would watch as a kid: Stay tuned for the next episode as Brent reveals another unknown detail about his Carlton!

repechage

the evolution of the Hans Ohrt shop sticker was quite durable for the basic graphics.
For a short period, there was a Beverly Hills and Hollywood footer line.
Hans was the go-to for the actors and studios, the shop had dozens of 8 x 10's of famous clients, was kind of self perpetuating after a while, need not ask, the clients would send them in with a thank you inscription.
Los Angeles was added when the store on La Cienega was purchased.
Then Westwood added, and the figure with line art replaced with
Lightweight Bicycles, Inc in two lines in a custom font with the CYC doing double duty as a bicycle.
Los Angeles was dropped when that store closed.
Beverly Hills was dropped when the property was sold.
The Westwood location was sold to Helen's Cycles (83-84?) and while very reconfigured, still there.
That was the end of the line for the graphics. Over 45 years.
There was also a Serviced by decal of the same basic format for a time.

scarlson 

I can confirm, that spot on the seat tube looks just like the clamp on my Juy 56.

Re the Brampton pedals, I have the same on my '59 Jack Taylor tandem. I've made a couple replacement dustcaps for them - each takes 2 hours on a manual lathe. If you're desperate, I could be persuaded to do another.

Hudson308 

I too am happy to note that your extensive research on these remains valid. Many thanks for the sleuthing on my '60-ish Continental. I see that it shares many details with OBrent's, but also shows some interesting differences.

obrentharris 

That's dedication! PM on its way.
Brent

obrentharris 

@repechage thanks for the short Ohrt history! I've been hearing mention of this shop for years but had no solid information before this.
Brent