Where do down tube shifters go?
#1
señor miembro
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 6,620
Bikes: '70s - '80s Campagnolo
Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3878 Post(s)
Liked 6,467 Times
in
3,199 Posts
Where do down tube shifters go?
The internet tells me, the down tube.
Was or is there a rule of thumb?
My bikes (55-57cm) measure between 11cm and 13.5cm from shifter to head tube (c-c). I didn't see a real pattern compared to frame size.
I'm switching from barcons on my new '72 Torpado. It's stamped 56cm. There's really no paint scarring on the down tube to use as a guide or to cover.
Was or is there a rule of thumb?
My bikes (55-57cm) measure between 11cm and 13.5cm from shifter to head tube (c-c). I didn't see a real pattern compared to frame size.
I'm switching from barcons on my new '72 Torpado. It's stamped 56cm. There's really no paint scarring on the down tube to use as a guide or to cover.
#2
Me duelen las nalgas
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 13,513
Bikes: Centurion Ironman, Trek 5900, Univega Via Carisma, Globe Carmel
Mentioned: 199 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4559 Post(s)
Liked 2,802 Times
in
1,800 Posts
IIRC, when I first put clamp-on downtube shifters on my '76 Motobecane Mirage (it came with stem shifters), I used tape to protect the downtube for the trial rides until I settled on the position that was comfortable for me.
Later braze-on mounts kinda locked us into one spot, although the position seems okay on the bikes I've ridden.
Wish I still had that Motobecane. I'm betting the position I settled on would be exactly where a frame builder would have located the braze-ons if it had 'em.
Later braze-on mounts kinda locked us into one spot, although the position seems okay on the bikes I've ridden.
Wish I still had that Motobecane. I'm betting the position I settled on would be exactly where a frame builder would have located the braze-ons if it had 'em.
#3
Full Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Palm Springs, California
Posts: 462
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 206 Post(s)
Liked 460 Times
in
176 Posts
My Faggin's braze-on's are exactly 4" down from the head tube. But sometimes I come close to sticking my finger in the wheel, so I wish they were about an inch lower.
It's a 56cm
It's a 56cm
Likes For krakhaus:
#4
Bike Butcher of Portland
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 11,633
Bikes: It's complicated.
Mentioned: 1299 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4678 Post(s)
Liked 5,793 Times
in
2,280 Posts
I typically braze them on 10cm off the center of the head tube. I'm pretty sure a centimeter or two off either way wouldn't make much of a difference, at least to me. No one's complained so far.
__________________
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
Likes For gugie:
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 12,902
Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder
Mentioned: 129 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4802 Post(s)
Liked 3,922 Times
in
2,551 Posts
Is there a braze-on under the downtube tho serve as a stop for a shifter clamp (or housing stop for the barends)?
If you have a bare tube, no braze-on, then you have a blank slate. I'd go for a ride, swing my arm down and note where shifting feel natural. I've had bikes where I liked the location and others I didn't. You get to do it right.
If you have a bare tube, no braze-on, then you have a blank slate. I'd go for a ride, swing my arm down and note where shifting feel natural. I've had bikes where I liked the location and others I didn't. You get to do it right.
#6
weapons-grade bolognium
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Across the street from Chicago
Posts: 6,344
Bikes: Battaglin Cromor, Ciocc Designer 84, Schwinn Superior 1981
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 985 Post(s)
Liked 2,378 Times
in
891 Posts
Here's a pic for reference. The infamous "$1 Trek 400".
Likes For thinktubes:
#7
(rhymes with spook)
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Winslow, AR
Posts: 2,788
Bikes: '83 univega gran turismo x2, '85 schwinn super le tour,'89 miyata triple cross, '91 GT tequesta, '90 yokota grizzly peak, '94 GT backwoods, '95'ish scott tampico, '98 bonty privateer, '93 mongoose crossway 625, '98 parkpre ariel, 2k'ish giant fcr3
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 919 Post(s)
Liked 745 Times
in
546 Posts
there's the shifter clamp stop 79pmooney mentioned. about half way up from your shifters to the head tube..... underside of the downtube. your shifter clamp should go just above that
#8
52psi
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 4,015
Bikes: Schwinn Volare ('78); Raleigh Competition GS ('79)
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 790 Post(s)
Liked 802 Times
in
391 Posts
Some guy in Japan 40+ years ago says 10cm.
But dude in England says 13. (The height of a typical pint glass, table to rim. Coincidence?)
... so they go right about there. Ish. Maybe a little higher. Or lower. Perfect!
(Both frames pictured are 58st, 56tt.)
But dude in England says 13. (The height of a typical pint glass, table to rim. Coincidence?)
... so they go right about there. Ish. Maybe a little higher. Or lower. Perfect!
(Both frames pictured are 58st, 56tt.)
Last edited by Fahrenheit531; 10-23-20 at 10:19 PM.
Likes For Fahrenheit531:
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Medford MA
Posts: 2,089
Bikes: Ron Cooper touring, 1959 Jack Taylor 650b ladyback touring tandem, Vitus 979, Joe Bell painted Claud Butler Dalesman, Colin Laing curved tube tandem, heavily-Dilberted 1982 Trek 6xx, René Herse tandem
Mentioned: 80 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 964 Post(s)
Liked 1,451 Times
in
723 Posts
Based on my experience with '80s Holdsworth craftsmanship? Nope! Confident the guy still had a pint or several in him or on him when he did my lower head lug. Maybe then went right to the downtube mounts.
__________________
Owner & co-founder, Cycles René Hubris. Unfortunately attaching questionable braze-ons to perfectly good frames since about 2015. With style.
Owner & co-founder, Cycles René Hubris. Unfortunately attaching questionable braze-ons to perfectly good frames since about 2015. With style.
#10
Senior Member
The folks in Worksop put them at 13cm. Or close to that. And the stop is centered....kinda, sorta...... With the shifters there I can usually find them without looking or getting my fingers in the spokes.
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Port Angeles, WA
Posts: 7,922
Bikes: A green one, "Ragleigh," or something.
Mentioned: 194 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1627 Post(s)
Liked 630 Times
in
356 Posts
Stick with the barcons.
__________________
● 1971 Grandis SL ● 1972 Lambert Grand Prix frankenbike ● 1972 Raleigh Super Course fixie ● 1973 Nishiki Semi-Pro ● 1979 Motobecane Grand Jubile ●1980 Apollo "Legnano" ● 1984 Peugeot Vagabond ● 1985 Shogun Prairie Breaker ● 1986 Merckx Super Corsa ● 1987 Schwinn Tempo ● 1988 Schwinn Voyageur ● 1989 Bottechia Team ADR replica ● 1990 Cannondale ST600 ● 1993 Technium RT600 ● 1996 Kona Lava Dome ●
● 1971 Grandis SL ● 1972 Lambert Grand Prix frankenbike ● 1972 Raleigh Super Course fixie ● 1973 Nishiki Semi-Pro ● 1979 Motobecane Grand Jubile ●1980 Apollo "Legnano" ● 1984 Peugeot Vagabond ● 1985 Shogun Prairie Breaker ● 1986 Merckx Super Corsa ● 1987 Schwinn Tempo ● 1988 Schwinn Voyageur ● 1989 Bottechia Team ADR replica ● 1990 Cannondale ST600 ● 1993 Technium RT600 ● 1996 Kona Lava Dome ●
Likes For Lascauxcaveman:
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 2,814
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1106 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,326 Times
in
782 Posts
The internet tells me, the down tube.
Was or is there a rule of thumb?
My bikes (55-57cm) measure between 11cm and 13.5cm from shifter to head tube (c-c). I didn't see a real pattern compared to frame size.
I'm switching from barcons on my new '72 Torpado. It's stamped 56cm. There's really no paint scarring on the down tube to use as a guide or to cover.
Was or is there a rule of thumb?
My bikes (55-57cm) measure between 11cm and 13.5cm from shifter to head tube (c-c). I didn't see a real pattern compared to frame size.
I'm switching from barcons on my new '72 Torpado. It's stamped 56cm. There's really no paint scarring on the down tube to use as a guide or to cover.
Some have a pip on the top of the down-tube, some on the bottom, and some have braze-ons.
For all I measured to the centre-line of the head-tube - either to the centre of the shifter boss or the top edge of the pip.
These are eye-ball measurements - to which I applied a correction for the pip location - -7mm on top, +7mm on bottom, and then -3mm for the band
Frame - seat-tube(cm,c-c) - pip/boss distance(cm) - corrected
Torpado 1 - 51 - 15.25 (pip on top) - 14.0
Peugeot Tour - 53.25 - 12.0 (pip on bottom) - 12.4
Carlton Flyer - 55.25 - 10.0 (boss)
Gardin 400 - 57 - 10.5 (boss)
Guerciotti - 60 - 10.0(boss)
Torpado 2 - 60.25 - 14.0 (pip on top) - 13.0
And beside them was another frame (52cm) that takes a clamp mount; I had put them where I though they looked right and measuring to that boss gives 14.5. Hmmm. Didn't have any wheels on when I did that.
The two Torpados are both bottom end frames - no rear mech hanger, 4-digit serials beginning with 2, so they probably match yours in date of manufacture; but seeing as the smaller has a larger mount distance that's not much help. The Peugeot Tour is what I call a bike I just got, it does not appear in any of the catalogues/brochures, has a Vitus frame with Mafac cantis, date by serial 1983. The Guerciotti I don't know a model or date, except that it is likely late 80s at most.
However, there are more practical considerations. You don't want the shifters to be where if you are using them your pedaling has to change; and of course they should be a comfortable reach. You might want to avoid marring a decal, or fit a water bottle, or carry a pump under the top-tube. I once built a centre-of-the-frame-pack, and narrowed out the place where I thought the shifters would be, after mounting it they of course needed to be moved a bit.
Last edited by oneclick; 10-24-20 at 05:22 AM.
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NW Burbs, Chicago
Posts: 12,053
Mentioned: 201 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3015 Post(s)
Liked 3,792 Times
in
1,406 Posts
Where it's best for you?
Likes For iab:
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 2,429
Bikes: Drysdale/Gitane/Zeus/Masi/Falcon/Palo Alto/Raleigh/Legnano
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 981 Post(s)
Liked 631 Times
in
402 Posts
This does seem like the logical solution. Not all riders have the same length arms, even for a given frame size.
__________________
Larry:1958 Drysdale, 1961 Gitane Gran Sport, 1974 Zeus track, 1988 Masi Gran Corsa, 1974 Falcon, 1980 Palo Alto, 1973 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1974 Legnano. Susan: 1976 Windsor Profesional.
Larry:1958 Drysdale, 1961 Gitane Gran Sport, 1974 Zeus track, 1988 Masi Gran Corsa, 1974 Falcon, 1980 Palo Alto, 1973 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1974 Legnano. Susan: 1976 Windsor Profesional.
#16
Banned.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 27,199
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 378 Post(s)
Liked 1,409 Times
in
909 Posts
I’m just reading the thread, because I never think about it until I reach down and feel that tire whizzing by my fingers.
At least it’s not government regulated....or is it?
At least it’s not government regulated....or is it?
Likes For RobbieTunes:
#17
señor miembro
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 6,620
Bikes: '70s - '80s Campagnolo
Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3878 Post(s)
Liked 6,467 Times
in
3,199 Posts
#18
Bike Butcher of Portland
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 11,633
Bikes: It's complicated.
Mentioned: 1299 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4678 Post(s)
Liked 5,793 Times
in
2,280 Posts
I'd bet the Japanese were very consistent, Europeans, not so much. Hmm, I've got a bunch of frames in the Atelier hanging up. Sounds like a quick project...
__________________
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
#19
feros ferio
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
Posts: 21,796
Bikes: 1959 Capo Modell Campagnolo; 1960 Capo Sieger (2); 1962 Carlton Franco Suisse; 1970 Peugeot UO-8; 1982 Bianchi Campione d'Italia; 1988 Schwinn Project KOM-10;
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1392 Post(s)
Liked 1,324 Times
in
836 Posts
Bianchi (braze-ons): 10cm back from head tube center
Capo Modell Campagnolo (arbitrarily placed clamp-ons): 11.5 cm back -- looked and felt about right
Capo Modell Campagnolo (arbitrarily placed clamp-ons): 11.5 cm back -- looked and felt about right
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
#20
blahblahblah chrome moly
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,986
Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1172 Post(s)
Liked 2,567 Times
in
1,072 Posts
Where I wanted mine, the pump peg was in the way. I didn't let that stop me:
At least this way I know it won't slide down. Or up! Or rotate for that matter.
As to the original Q, I may have had a measurement that I used when I was actively building (I don't remember), but more likely not, I just put them where the fixture held them on. We did braze-ons on the bare mitered tube before putting the tubes in the frame jig, so the braze-on fixture indexed off the miter, but that's no different than measuring from the head tube on a finished frame. So why am I even mentioning it? I dunno. Of course whoever made the fixture must have had a measurement in mind, but it's pretty arbitrary. Over a wide range, they all work fine.
My '61 Specialissima came with a clamp-on DT shifter that has the pump umbrella integrated. So you position the shifters to where the pump fits best!
One place I worked, we brazed a little pip underneath, and that was done without a jig, completely by eye IIRC. The eye gets pretty good with enough practice though; I bet those pips didn't vary by more than a couple mm. I once glanced at a frame a coworker was making as I walked by, and said to him "check those water bottle bosses, they look too far apart". They were indeed 1 mm too far apart, 65 instead of 64 mm.
Mark B in Seattle
At least this way I know it won't slide down. Or up! Or rotate for that matter.
As to the original Q, I may have had a measurement that I used when I was actively building (I don't remember), but more likely not, I just put them where the fixture held them on. We did braze-ons on the bare mitered tube before putting the tubes in the frame jig, so the braze-on fixture indexed off the miter, but that's no different than measuring from the head tube on a finished frame. So why am I even mentioning it? I dunno. Of course whoever made the fixture must have had a measurement in mind, but it's pretty arbitrary. Over a wide range, they all work fine.
My '61 Specialissima came with a clamp-on DT shifter that has the pump umbrella integrated. So you position the shifters to where the pump fits best!
One place I worked, we brazed a little pip underneath, and that was done without a jig, completely by eye IIRC. The eye gets pretty good with enough practice though; I bet those pips didn't vary by more than a couple mm. I once glanced at a frame a coworker was making as I walked by, and said to him "check those water bottle bosses, they look too far apart". They were indeed 1 mm too far apart, 65 instead of 64 mm.
Mark B in Seattle
Likes For bulgie:
#21
Junior Member
Don’t forget shifters are different lengths too!
Early cyclo and simplex have very long levers for example, that alone would mean there will be variations over time and between countries.
Early cyclo and simplex have very long levers for example, that alone would mean there will be variations over time and between countries.
Likes For amedias:
#22
Veteran, Pacifist
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Seattle area
Posts: 13,327
Bikes: Bikes??? Thought this was social media?!?
Mentioned: 284 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3898 Post(s)
Liked 4,830 Times
in
2,228 Posts
Why worry about it?, go Single Speed or Fixie. You need one of those anyway.
__________________
Vintage, modern, e-road. It is a big cycling universe.
Vintage, modern, e-road. It is a big cycling universe.
#23
señor miembro
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 6,620
Bikes: '70s - '80s Campagnolo
Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3878 Post(s)
Liked 6,467 Times
in
3,199 Posts
Likes For SurferRosa:
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 23,223
Mentioned: 654 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4722 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3,036 Times
in
1,874 Posts
Downtube shift levers should be positioned so that the inevitable paint chip caused by contact from the front brake's cable adjustment knob is obscured when the lever is all the forward and you're cranking along in high gear.
Likes For T-Mar:
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Madison, WI USA
Posts: 6,153
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2362 Post(s)
Liked 1,749 Times
in
1,191 Posts
^^^^ What happens if an asteroid collides with one of the polar ice caps?