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Why SRAM Red derailleurs suck.

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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Why SRAM Red derailleurs suck.

Old 09-16-11, 12:25 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Kimmo
Why not test your theory by tweaking the RED cage into a more appropriate shape?

Maybe you can come up with a simple fix.
Might be pretty hard to bend the titanium cage.

Last edited by bikepro; 09-16-11 at 12:29 PM. Reason: speling
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Old 09-16-11, 12:28 PM
  #27  
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I keep hearing about problems with the Red FD, but recently upgraded myself and have had no problems -- after I got it properly aligned with the chain ring. It now shifts very good -- and I'm using a Compact Campy UT with 34/50 rings.
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Old 09-16-11, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by bikepro
Might be pretty hard to bend the titanium cage.
You can grab and squeeze both cages. It isn't easy, but it will compress. There is something off with them since the pro teams long ago and the riders put steel cages on the Red FDs. Then they called it the Pro version, now they offer it as an option. I've seen one or two on ebay at times.

https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/...upernova/94899


and




And...


Last edited by zigmeister; 09-16-11 at 01:02 PM.
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Old 09-16-11, 01:01 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by RTDub
I called SRAM myself and spoke to a nice woman named Danielle. If you have any questions about this, call them at 800-346-2928 - they answer quickly. It is their policy (and a good one) for vendors not to get involved in threads like this in a public forum (I haven't seen BD Mike in forever), but she said the Red Ti FD needs to be very carefully adjusted for minimal wear, but then this goes for any FD I am aware of.
Of course they don't.

Maybe they would like to explain why all the pros have switched to steel cages from the Force, that is branded with "Red" on them? SRAM makes them I would assume branded and they swap them, or just make the entire derailleur and ship them to the teams, or maybe the mechanics just took a force cage they were sent, and put stickers on them they have.

Which ever way...things that make you go hmmmm....
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Old 09-16-11, 01:02 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by zigmeister
Of course they don't.

Maybe they would like to explain why all the pros have switched to steel cages from the Force, that is branded with "Red" on them? SRAM makes them I would assume branded and they swap them, or just make the entire derailleur and ship them to the teams...either way, maybe the mechanics just took a force cage they were sent, and put stickers on them.
This is precisely why they don't comment in public forums - snark. In the time it took you to type this, you could have dialed the number and asked your question
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Old 09-16-11, 01:04 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by zigmeister
You can grab and squeeze both cages. It isn't easy, but it will compress. There is something off with them since the pro teams long ago and the riders put steel cages on the Red FDs. Then they called it the Pro version, now they offer it as an option. I've seen one or two on ebay at times.

https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/...upernova/94899


and




And...

The Ti version looks more aero.
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Old 09-16-11, 01:13 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by kleinboogie
+1.
+2 My compact shifts flawlessly, but I did spend a lot of time on the initial setup getting it just right.
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Old 09-16-11, 01:37 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by zigmeister
Of course they don't.

Maybe they would like to explain why all the pros have switched to steel cages from the Force, that is branded with "Red" on them? SRAM makes them I would assume branded and they swap them, or just make the entire derailleur and ship them to the teams, or maybe the mechanics just took a force cage they were sent, and put stickers on them they have.

Which ever way...things that make you go hmmmm....
Having been at this level once in my life, you'd have a heart attack and die if you had any clue the amount of switching and changing that goes on.

With all due respect, maybe have an idea of what you are talking about before criticising.

BTW...all the pros have not switched.

Last edited by roadwarrior; 09-16-11 at 02:03 PM.
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Old 09-16-11, 01:54 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by yak
+2 My compact shifts flawlessly, but I did spend a lot of time on the initial setup getting it just right.
Agreed. I didn't have any setup issues when I built the bike with a compact chainrings but when I went to 52/36 there were finer adjustments I had to make and took 3-4 rides to get it right.
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Old 09-17-11, 04:06 AM
  #35  
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Oh, oh....last picture...

https://www.bikeradar.com/gear/articl...six-evo-30367/

wow. titanium. front. derailleur. sram. red. rest easy everyone.
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Old 09-17-11, 05:28 AM
  #36  
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its known to be flexy. around here i dont use my FD much as its all big gear terrian. later.
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Old 09-17-11, 04:42 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by roadwarrior
Having been at this level once in my life, you'd have a heart attack and die if you had any clue the amount of switching and changing that goes on.

With all due respect, maybe have an idea of what you are talking about before criticising.

BTW...all the pros have not switched.

Right...so let me find the 10 to 1 ratio of steel cages to Titanium. Good luck finding more pro bikes with titanium. Took all of 2 seconds to google steel cages and all the bikeradar and velonews pro bikes are returned to you with photos of all the steel cages.

Assumed you were never sponsored by SRAM, so take what you say with a grain of salt.

Furthermore, I will also believe 1 thing you say regarding the topic when SRAM explains why the make a SRAM Red Steel cage now, and initially called it the "Pro" version.
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Old 09-17-11, 06:04 PM
  #38  
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Yes, because posting about it here rather than calling SRAM is accomplishing your goal. Good GOD man, pick up the phone.
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Old 09-17-11, 06:12 PM
  #39  
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u mad, bros. relax, all.
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Old 09-17-11, 07:45 PM
  #40  
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So I installed the Force FD today, and it's not much better. Maybe it isn't the Red FD after all. One thing I do know- I'm getting quite tired of my front shifting woes.

I spent hours upon hours (pretty much the whole day) adjusting, trying it out, readjusting, trying it out, etc. It's like it either won't shift on to the big ring, or it moves the chain over too far and it falls off the right side. It's almost impossible to find the sweet spot in terms of the high limit adjustment. I've tried every conceivable position in the 1-3mm range recommended by SRAM. Tried parallel to the rings, slightly inward, slightly outward, etc. Have 1mm chain clearance when in low-low combo, then I tension the cable, and try to adjust the high limit for optimal shifting to the big ring. No luck. There are a million threads online with people complaining about the same thing. Here's just one example. I'm having the exact same issues.

I don't get it. I had a 2011 Cervelo R3 with Rival and that thing shifted perfectly up front. Almost as well as 6700 as a matter of fact. It was awesome and I didn't adjust it any differently. Then there's the Rival on the Litespeed M1 I bought my girlfriend. Poor front shifting just like my 595.

Is it the bike? Are some bikes just prone to poor front shifting with SRAM? I've heard that this is the case, but I find it hard to believe.

I had 6700 on my 595 for a very brief period of time before going to Red. Front shifting was amazing, but otherwise I didn't like it at all. Now with SRAM everything is amazing except the front shifting. I can't win here.

I think my next step will be trying a 6700 FD with my Red group, and if that doesn't work I'll just have to deal with the crappy front shifting and soft-pedal shifts until Ultegra Di2 comes out.

Final note:

I installed my Quarq power meter today (compact Red rings), which are the same rings I had on my compact Red crankset. So both the Red FD/Red crankset and Force FD/Quarq yield roughly the same poor results. Could it be the Red chain rings maybe? If I end up trying the Ultegra FD I can determine for sure whether or not it's the Red chain rings since I know the Ultegra FD shifted beautifully with the 6700 compact crankset.

Damn you Shimano! Bring us Ultegra Di2 already!
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Old 09-17-11, 09:33 PM
  #41  
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its bad luck with the setup id say. id position dead parallel and as low as possible. the high limit should be just enough to clear top gear. dont tighten the cable too much because it can mess up the tension. some frames can shift funny if they have an extreme chainstay to seat tube angle.
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Old 09-17-11, 09:51 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by adriano
its bad luck with the setup id say. id position dead parallel and as low as possible. the high limit should be just enough to clear top gear. dont tighten the cable too much because it can mess up the tension. some frames can shift funny if they have an extreme chainstay to seat tube angle.
It's funny you should recommend "dead parallel and as low as possible." That's exactly how I have it set up right now. I found that this makes it work better than all the other positions I tried. It still isn't consistent and nowhere near as reliable as the Rival FD setup on my '11 Cervelo R3. I personally think it's just bad luck with this particular frame.

I'm going to buy some blue loc-tite tomorrow because the limit screws aren't exactly snug. The high limit screw in particular seems like it could easily vibrate itself out of position. After I set the screws in place I'm going to try and let off the cable tension a bit to see if that helps at all.

Last edited by ilovecycling; 09-17-11 at 10:08 PM.
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Old 09-17-11, 10:07 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by roadwarrior
Oh, oh....last picture...

https://www.bikeradar.com/gear/articl...six-evo-30367/

wow. titanium. front. derailleur. sram. red. rest easy everyone.
ugliest bike ever...srs
Originally Posted by ilovecycling
So I installed the Force FD today, and it's not much better. Maybe it isn't the Red FD after all. One thing I do know- I'm getting quite tired of my front shifting woes.

I spent hours upon hours (pretty much the whole day) adjusting, trying it out, readjusting, trying it out, etc. It's like it either won't shift on to the big ring, or it moves the chain over too far and it falls off the right side. It's almost impossible to find the sweet spot in terms of the high limit adjustment. I've tried every conceivable position in the 1-3mm range recommended by SRAM. Tried parallel to the rings, slightly inward, slightly outward, etc. Have 1mm chain clearance when in low-low combo, then I tension the cable, and try to adjust the high limit for optimal shifting to the big ring. No luck. There are a million threads online with people complaining about the same thing. Here's just one example. I'm having the exact same issues.

I don't get it. I had a 2011 Cervelo R3 with Rival and that thing shifted perfectly up front. Almost as well as 6700 as a matter of fact. It was awesome and I didn't adjust it any differently. Then there's the Rival on the Litespeed M1 I bought my girlfriend. Poor front shifting just like my 595.

Is it the bike? Are some bikes just prone to poor front shifting with SRAM? I've heard that this is the case, but I find it hard to believe.

I had 6700 on my 595 for a very brief period of time before going to Red. Front shifting was amazing, but otherwise I didn't like it at all. Now with SRAM everything is amazing except the front shifting. I can't win here.

I think my next step will be trying a 6700 FD with my Red group, and if that doesn't work I'll just have to deal with the crappy front shifting and soft-pedal shifts until Ultegra Di2 comes out.

Final note:

I installed my Quarq power meter today (compact Red rings), which are the same rings I had on my compact Red crankset. So both the Red FD/Red crankset and Force FD/Quarq yield roughly the same poor results. Could it be the Red chain rings maybe? If I end up trying the Ultegra FD I can determine for sure whether or not it's the Red chain rings since I know the Ultegra FD shifted beautifully with the 6700 compact crankset.

Damn you Shimano! Bring us Ultegra Di2 already!
time to make the switch dude
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Old 09-17-11, 10:11 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by DropDeadFred
ugliest bike ever...srs


time to make the switch dude
What switch would you be referring to?
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Old 09-17-11, 10:14 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by ilovecycling
It's funny you should recommend "dead parallel and as low as possible." That's exactly how I have it set up right now. I found that this makes it work better than all the other positions I tried. It still isn't consistent and nowhere near as reliable as the Rival FD setup on my '11 Cervelo R3. I personally think it's just bad luck with this particular frame.

I'm going to buy some blue loc-tite tomorrow because the limit screws aren't exactly snug. The high limit screw in particular seems like it could easily vibrate itself out of position. After I set the screws in place I'm going to try and let off the cable tension a bit to see if that helps at all.
i guess i should consider myself lucky to have a cheapo rival front derailleur with my red!
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Old 09-17-11, 10:16 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by adriano
i guess i should consider myself lucky to have a cheapo rival front derailleur with my red!
Well, like I said before, the Rival FD on my gf's Litespeed M1 is no better than my Red or Force FD. SRAM FDs are just hit or miss it seems. But yes, if yours works then you are indeed lucky.
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Old 09-18-11, 01:40 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by ColinL
So you have a Red brifter controlling an Ultegra 6700 FD... was there any black magic to setting it up?
I did it. Works great.

But I just recently swapped the 6700 with Red and shifting is just fine. No problems with my Red

Last edited by Painful Chafe; 09-18-11 at 01:48 AM.
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Old 09-18-11, 04:38 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by ilovecycling
So I installed the Force FD today, and it's not much better. Maybe it isn't the Red FD after all. One thing I do know- I'm getting quite tired of my front shifting woes.

I spent hours upon hours (pretty much the whole day) adjusting, trying it out, readjusting, trying it out, etc. It's like it either won't shift on to the big ring, or it moves the chain over too far and it falls off the right side. It's almost impossible to find the sweet spot in terms of the high limit adjustment. I've tried every conceivable position in the 1-3mm range recommended by SRAM. Tried parallel to the rings, slightly inward, slightly outward, etc. Have 1mm chain clearance when in low-low combo, then I tension the cable, and try to adjust the high limit for optimal shifting to the big ring. No luck. There are a million threads online with people complaining about the same thing. Here's just one example. I'm having the exact same issues.

I don't get it. I had a 2011 Cervelo R3 with Rival and that thing shifted perfectly up front. Almost as well as 6700 as a matter of fact. It was awesome and I didn't adjust it any differently. Then there's the Rival on the Litespeed M1 I bought my girlfriend. Poor front shifting just like my 595.

Is it the bike? Are some bikes just prone to poor front shifting with SRAM? I've heard that this is the case, but I find it hard to believe.

I had 6700 on my 595 for a very brief period of time before going to Red. Front shifting was amazing, but otherwise I didn't like it at all. Now with SRAM everything is amazing except the front shifting. I can't win here.

I think my next step will be trying a 6700 FD with my Red group, and if that doesn't work I'll just have to deal with the crappy front shifting and soft-pedal shifts until Ultegra Di2 comes out.

Final note:

I installed my Quarq power meter today (compact Red rings), which are the same rings I had on my compact Red crankset. So both the Red FD/Red crankset and Force FD/Quarq yield roughly the same poor results. Could it be the Red chain rings maybe? If I end up trying the Ultegra FD I can determine for sure whether or not it's the Red chain rings since I know the Ultegra FD shifted beautifully with the 6700 compact crankset.

Damn you Shimano! Bring us Ultegra Di2 already!
I've heard this from end users and local bike shops. Again. And again. And again.
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Old 09-18-11, 04:42 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by ilovecycling
So I installed the Force FD today, and it's not much better. Maybe it isn't the Red FD after all. One thing I do know- I'm getting quite tired of my front shifting woes.

I spent hours upon hours (pretty much the whole day) adjusting, trying it out, readjusting, trying it out, etc. It's like it either won't shift on to the big ring, or it moves the chain over too far and it falls off the right side. It's almost impossible to find the sweet spot in terms of the high limit adjustment. I've tried every conceivable position in the 1-3mm range recommended by SRAM. Tried parallel to the rings, slightly inward, slightly outward, etc. Have 1mm chain clearance when in low-low combo, then I tension the cable, and try to adjust the high limit for optimal shifting to the big ring. No luck. There are a million threads online with people complaining about the same thing. Here's just one example. I'm having the exact same issues.

I don't get it. I had a 2011 Cervelo R3 with Rival and that thing shifted perfectly up front. Almost as well as 6700 as a matter of fact. It was awesome and I didn't adjust it any differently. Then there's the Rival on the Litespeed M1 I bought my girlfriend. Poor front shifting just like my 595.

Is it the bike? Are some bikes just prone to poor front shifting with SRAM? I've heard that this is the case, but I find it hard to believe.

I had 6700 on my 595 for a very brief period of time before going to Red. Front shifting was amazing, but otherwise I didn't like it at all. Now with SRAM everything is amazing except the front shifting. I can't win here.

I think my next step will be trying a 6700 FD with my Red group, and if that doesn't work I'll just have to deal with the crappy front shifting and soft-pedal shifts until Ultegra Di2 comes out.

Final note:

I installed my Quarq power meter today (compact Red rings), which are the same rings I had on my compact Red crankset. So both the Red FD/Red crankset and Force FD/Quarq yield roughly the same poor results. Could it be the Red chain rings maybe? If I end up trying the Ultegra FD I can determine for sure whether or not it's the Red chain rings since I know the Ultegra FD shifted beautifully with the 6700 compact crankset.

Damn you Shimano! Bring us Ultegra Di2 already!
Maybe it's the mechanic.
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Old 09-18-11, 04:46 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by roadwarrior
Maybe it's the mechanic.
I've heard this particular lame excuse from this Sram shill again. And again. And again.

At the end of the day if so many people have problems setting up a component then a bigger part of the problem is in the product design, not the end user's competence. You know, like the Windows operating system.
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