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Car-Free outings for otherwise car-heavies

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Car-Free outings for otherwise car-heavies

Old 02-12-17, 11:54 AM
  #1  
tandempower
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Car-Free outings for otherwise car-heavies

Often, we go out for car-free outings on weekends, because those are the days long enough and where bedtime is flexible enough to allow for long walks and bike rides. Although we LCF, it occurred to me that you don't have to 'be' LCF or car-light to take car-free outings, especially on weekends. Likewise, we often see other people taking walks and bike-rides on the MUPs, and many of them may not 'be' car-free or car-light.

So this thread is about the appeal of car-free outings for people who otherwise have no interest in LCF or LCL. Clearly there are health-benefits and fun to be had by walking or biking to go out, go shopping, or go to a restaurant. Going out to eat, especially, is better car-free because the walk or bike-ride to and from the restaurant stimulates the appetite and helps with digestion.

Do you think many people recognize and/or seek and engage in car-free outings who otherwise have no interest in LCF/LCL? If so, they probably wouldn't be reading and participating in this web forum (or would they?). What other outings/activities are better car-free and why? How could car-free outings be promoted/marketed as a benefit to healthy and fun living?

E.g. Could restaurants or other businesses promote their meals or other products as being better as part of a car-free outing? McDonalds, for example, has traditionally promoted its food as part of a family-fun lifestyle, so maybe McDonalds TV ads could feature people strapping on their hiking/walking shoes while talking about what foods they're going to enjoy when they arrive. Someone could boast that they're going to get a large order of fries or a desert because they're going to burn the extra calories on the jog home, etc.

What do you think about this topic of car-free outings regardless of LCF/LCL status/interest? Is there a market for people to go out without driving for specific reasons, or are people who are totally comfortable with driving everywhere going to avoid car-free outings simply because they see it as a waste of time?
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Old 02-12-17, 04:34 PM
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There are quite a number of threads along those lines ...


https://www.bikeforums.net/living-car...-car-free.html

https://www.bikeforums.net/living-car...letourist.html

https://www.bikeforums.net/living-car...lifestyle.html

https://www.bikeforums.net/living-car...paths-etc.html

https://www.bikeforums.net/living-car...n-weekend.html

https://www.bikeforums.net/living-car...alk-today.html

https://www.bikeforums.net/living-car...r-bicycle.html

https://www.bikeforums.net/living-car...ng-events.html

Last edited by Machka; 02-13-17 at 06:57 AM.
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Old 02-12-17, 05:41 PM
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I think OPs long post can be summed up in three words: living car-light...It's already being done by many posters on this list.
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Old 02-12-17, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
I think OPs long post can be summed up in three words: living car-light...It's already being done by many posters on this list.
Ah, not really, I am 'trying" to be car light... Probably failing miserably, thus, I drive my big assed 4X4 diesel camper truck to do my "bicycle tours" with, on my bicycle, which is an E-Assist bike... So, what does that mean? Car free, car heavy, thus maybe actually covering it quite well. I would/could camp in a tent carrying everything with me on my bicycle... But, no, I hate tents, I love my camper, sleeping in a warm dry bed, having breakfast without going out to start a fire, having a fridge and my cold beer, watch movies if I want... And yet I do ride my Bike for an average of 700Km+ per trip...
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Old 02-12-17, 07:43 PM
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Jim from Boston
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
Often, we go out for car-free outings on weekends, because those are the days long enough and where bedtime is flexible enough to allow for long walks and bike rides. Although we LCF, it occurred to me that you don't have to 'be' LCF or car-light to take car-free outings, especially on weekends. Likewise, we often see other people taking walks and bike-rides on the MUPs, and many of them may not 'be' car-free or car-light.

So this thread is about the appeal of car-free outings for people who otherwise have no interest in LCF or LCL...

What do you think about this topic of car-free outings regardless of LCF/LCL status/interest? Is there a market for people to go out without driving for specific reasons, or are people who are totally comfortable with driving everywhere going to avoid car-free outings simply because they see it as a waste of time?
This may be an oblique reply to the focus of your thread about "the appeal of car free outings to people who have otherwise no interest in LCF or LCL," but I recently posted to a thread on road cycling, "Cycling Goals for 2017,"
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston View Post
...In addition, for the first time we bought a second home in a resort town on Metro Boston’s scenic North Shore, a nice cycling route 40 miles long north of our condo in downtown Boston. The region is also good for road cycling, and train service with the fully assembled bike is readily available. I described it in my Cycling Guide to Metro Boston as
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston View Post
…North Shore: Beautiful Atlantic coastline, especially north of Lynn, to include Nahant, Marblehead and Marblehead Neck, on through Salem, Beverly and into ritzy Beverly Farms, and up to seafaring Gloucester, Rockport, Ipswich, etc…
So one could travel by train from Boston to Rockport, and then it’s a short walk to our place. Our house is also a short walk to Rockport which itself is an interesting walkable resort town, including beaches.

Rockport is on Cape Ann on the North Shore, and known as Boston’s "other Cape," in distinction to Cape Cod, which begins at about 80 miles from Boston, with no train service, requires crossing one of two bridges with horrendous traffic jams on the summer weekends, and is best traversed by car. Just last night I was chatting with a colleague who has a vacation home on the off-Cape Island of Martha’s Vineyard. They have to plan their weekends months in advance to secure car passage on the ferryboat.

ADDENDUM: Parking in the center of Rockport is extremely limited. and visitors who drive there often have to park a couple of miles away and be shuttled into town by bus. Rockport as a convivial tourist destination was featured in the movie Coma (but not as the scary part).



Last edited by Jim from Boston; 02-13-17 at 06:55 AM.
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Old 02-12-17, 08:15 PM
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…and another thing.
Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
I think OPs long post can be summed up in three words: living car-light...It's already being done by many posters on this list.
Take heart, @Tandempower, I’ve also gotten such seemingly snarky replies under the rubric“ tl;dr (too long; didn’t read.)” I once read this post a few years ago that impressed me as a new subscriber to Bike Forums.
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston View Post
…Last year I came upon a post that to me embodied the communication style that I like about BF. In response to a long quote, @turbo1889 wrote [not to me]:
Originally Posted by turbo1889 View Post
First of all you have no need to apologize for a lengthy post, least of all to me of all people. Part of the reason I like forums as opposed to other forms of written communal internet forms is because I consider it the "long deep conversation format" rather than the quick short snappy sound bite like format like twitter and such.
This is in comparison to a post on a thread back in 2013 on Fifty-Plus Forum, "How Do You Communicate on Forums vs Face-to-Face," that was actually closed because it became so hostile. So I can’t link the quote below, but IMO it expresses an alternative viewpoint of posting to this site,
Forums for me are just like fast food. If I want something healthy, I'll read some good fiction.
If it's tl:dr, then don't.

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Old 02-13-17, 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
I think OPs long post can be summed up in three words: living car-light...It's already being done by many posters on this list.
Yep ... pretty much!
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Old 02-13-17, 05:57 AM
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Car-Free outings for otherwise car-heavies
Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
I think OPs long post can be summed up in three words: living car-light...It's already being done by many posters on this list.
Originally Posted by Machka View Post
Yep ... pretty much!
Not to be argumentative, but one reason I think that the above comments are an oversimplification of this thread, is that the thread is focused on a specific facet of one’s lifestyle…recreation. There are numerous threads devoted to LCF commuting; many about LCF shopping; even a few about LCF dating and weddings. So one about LCF vacationing seems reasonable.


In fact, the OP asked,”Is there a market for people to go out without driving for specific reasons, or are people who are totally comfortable with driving everywhere going to avoid car-free outings simply because they see it as a waste of time?; i.e how to extract the "car heavies" from their cars.
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Old 02-13-17, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Jim from Boston View Post
Car-Free outings for otherwise car-heavies
Not to be argumentative, but one reason I think that the above comments are an oversimplification of this thread, is that the thread is focused on a specific facet of one’s lifestyle…recreation. There are numerous threads devoted to LCF commuting; many about LCF shopping; even a few about LCF dating and weddings. So one about LCF vacationing seems reasonable.

In fact, the OP asked,”Is there a market for people to go out without driving for specific reasons, or are people who are totally comfortable with driving everywhere going to avoid car-free outings simply because they see it as a waste of time?; i.e how to extract the "car heavies" from their cars.
See the links I provided.
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Old 02-13-17, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Machka View Post
See the links I provided.
Thanks for your reply. No doubt that cycling is a great vehicle for recreation (and commuting, shopping, dating…) for those who espouse and enjoy an LCF/LCF lifestyle, but how do you convince the “car heavies,” as asked in the OP, to similarly spend their free time?

I recall a fairly recent thread, perhaps started by you, Machka, asking how do you sell an LCF/LCL lifestyle (in general), but to my dismay I couldn’t find it. Personally I don’t proselytize about cycling and lifestyle, but I do show a model, extol, and freely provide advice. As my first post to this thread relates, I can provide an enjoyable, easily done car-free vacation, but that’s one of the joys and amenities of living in Boston.

Last edited by Jim from Boston; 02-13-17 at 06:44 AM.
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Old 02-13-17, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Jim from Boston View Post
I recall a fairly recent thread, perhaps started by you,Machka, asking how do you sell an LCF/LCL lifestyle (in general), but to mydismay I couldn’t find it.
You're right, I did start a thread like that.
You're also right that you could not find it.
I deleted it.
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Old 02-13-17, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Jim from Boston View Post
...As my first post to this thread relates, I can provide an enjoyable, easily done car-free vacation, but that’s one of the joys and amenities of living in Boston.
Not to belabor this thread, but for the past few years I have offered to “host” (in Boston), a weekend bike ride in conjunction with an organized cycling group, and a casual walking tour of Boston sometime during the summer. This was under the informal and unsanctioned auspices of the “Fifty-Plus Forum Annual Ride” (held in various sites since 2007). I would hope to do so this year.

Last edited by Jim from Boston; 02-13-17 at 01:06 PM.
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Old 02-13-17, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
... for people who otherwise have no interest in LCF or LCL...
Why would such people be reading this forum? Unless they're trolls...

Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
What do you think about this topic of car-free outings regardless of LCF/LCL status/interest? Is there a market for people to go out without driving for specific reasons, or are people who are totally comfortable with driving everywhere going to avoid car-free outings simply because they see it as a waste of time?
A lot of vacations are carfree, such as cruises, resorts, train tours of Europe, helicopter skiing, etc. My co-worker who drives a lot boasted that she spent six days in London and Britain and never used a car.
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Old 02-13-17, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Machka View Post
See the links I provided.
I know you are the forum historian or archivist, but I think you should not discourage those who are willing to do the heavy lifting, such as starting new threads, After all, sometimes fresh meat is preferable to digging up some old fossil.
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Old 02-13-17, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Machka View Post
You're right, I did start a thread like that.
You're also right that you could not find it.
I deleted it.
I contributed to that thread, my thoughts and ideas that I took some time to type out. How dare you delete the thread without permission of those who contributed? I think this is outrageous. You have no right! How were you able to even do that?
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Old 02-13-17, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Roody View Post
...A lot of vacations are carfree, such as cruises, resorts, train tours of Europe, helicopter skiing, etc. My co-worker who drives a lot boasted that she spent six days in London and Britain and never used a car.
Hi @Roody,

Good list. As a fellow Michigander though, maybe you can relate to this. My wife, also from Michigan, likes to tout that it’s a “Michigan thing” to (marathon) drive on long vacations…24 hours to Florida…three days to California…several hours “up north.” That’s what I tell people from the Northeast when they’re amazed I drive 700 miles from Boston to Michigan in one day by myself.
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Old 02-13-17, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Roody View Post
Why would such people be reading this forum? Unless they're trolls...
Some people have an earnest interest in things they don't do. Someone could be a cyclist and be browsing through the subforums and decide to check out LCF for curiosity's sake. Even if there are few, we can still think about them, can't we?

A lot of vacations are carfree, such as cruises, resorts, train tours of Europe, helicopter skiing, etc. My co-worker who drives a lot boasted that she spent six days in London and Britain and never used a car.
True, but I'm thinking about local outings, e.g. going out to eat. I think going out to eat car-free is especially good because appetite and digestion benefit from the walk/bike-ride. I wonder how many car people consider going out walking to a destination. I think a lot of people go walking for the exercise, but I think there's some kind of mental block or taboo against going out for a walk and carrying home groceries, or going out to eat, or otherwise running an errand. Maybe not, though, at least for some people.
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Old 02-13-17, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Jim from Boston View Post
…I think that the …thread is focused on a specific facet of one’s lifefestyle…recreation
Originally Posted by Roody View Post
...A lot of vacations are carfree, such as cruises, resorts, train tours of Europe,helicopter skiing, etc. My co-worker who drives a lot boasted that she spent six days in London and Britain and never used a car.
Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
…True, but I'm thinking about local outings, e.g. going out to eat…I wonder how many car people consider going out walking to a destination. I think a lot of people go walking for the exercise, but I think there's some kind of mental block or taboo against going out for a walk and carrying home groceries, or going out to eat, or otherwise running an errand. Maybe not, though, at least for some people.
I have been avidly replying to this thread, like Roody, and perhaps Machka, with the idea that the thread was referring to broader activities like daytrips and vacations. “Going out” seems a pretty limited opportunity to take a bike ride, when the destination is more important than the transportation.


In fact “going out” for my wife and I means
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston View Post
…on Saturday nights, my wife and I get dressed to the nines and go dining and dancing at a gregarious Social Hall in a suburb about 10 miles from home. We drive, but even that venue is accessible by subway
We're certainly not dressed for a bike ride.

Last edited by Jim from Boston; 02-13-17 at 06:00 PM.
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Old 02-13-17, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Jim from Boston View Post
I have been avidly replying to this thread, like Roody, and perhaps Machka, with the idea that the thread was referring to broader activities like daytrips and vacations. “Going out” seems a pretty limited opportunity to take a bike ride, when the destination is more important than the transportation.

Going out becomes more like a day trip when you do it car-free, but it's still just going out with a long walk or bike ride before and after.

In fact “going out” for my wife and I means
We're certainly not dressed for a bike ride.
The more I think about it, the more I realize that clothing and hair issues are the main obstacles to doing anything car-free. Cars have basically been refined to serve as climate-controlled, wind-free holding chambers to keep people fresh during transport between destinations.
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Old 02-13-17, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Roody View Post
I contributed to that thread, my thoughts and ideas that I took some time to type out. How dare you delete the thread without permission of those who contributed? I think this is outrageous. You have no right! How were you able to even do that?


If a person starts a thread, that person can also delete a thread. It's the way Bikeforums is set up and it is a beautiful thing. You can do it too!

If I start a thread I do indeed have the right to delete it, and do not have to ask permission from anyone. I have exercised that right a few times in the past ... and I may very well use that right again in the future.

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Old 02-13-17, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
True, but I'm thinking about local outings, e.g. going out to eat. I think going out to eat car-free is especially good because appetite and digestion benefit from the walk/bike-ride. I wonder how many car people consider going out walking to a destination. I think a lot of people go walking for the exercise, but I think there's some kind of mental block or taboo against going out for a walk and carrying home groceries, or going out to eat, or otherwise running an errand. Maybe not, though, at least for some people.
A reasonable number of people in our area walk to pick up a few groceries or go out to eat or go to the beach or whatever.

I had a friend visit from Dallas who commented on the number of people out walking everywhere.
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Old 02-13-17, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Roody View Post
A lot of vacations are carfree, such as cruises, resorts, train tours of Europe, helicopter skiing, etc. My co-worker who drives a lot boasted that she spent six days in London and Britain and never used a car.
Rowan and I have spent months in Europe ... and never used a car.
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Old 02-14-17, 05:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Machka View Post
A reasonable number of people in our area walk to pick up a few groceries or go out to eat or go to the beach or whatever.

I had a friend visit from Dallas who commented on the number of people out walking everywhere.
I'm not surprised. I think the value of walking is more enshrined in Aussie culture, from what little I've encountered of it. The 'walkabout' idea seems to imply that exploring the world by foot is a noble venture in and of itself. I don't know why this essential human idea isn't valued more generally among humans regardless of cultural identity/specificity.
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Old 02-14-17, 09:20 AM
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The vast majority of trips I take in any given year are by foot or bike, including trips for food shopping, getting to and from work and going out to dinner and/or the movies.


Last July I bought a new motor vehicle. I will be 52 next month. It was only the second motor vehicle I have bought in my entire life and only the first one exclusively for me. (The first I bought for my mom in '95. I would borrow it some weekends.) The thing has only 1,939 miles on it. Several hundred of those miles were racked up during two long trips.
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Old 02-14-17, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Machka View Post
Rowan and I have spent months in Europe ... and never used a car.

Months ???..that's nothing....My grandma spend 91 years without owning a car.
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