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Tubeless Tires on Road bike. Yuck!

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Tubeless Tires on Road bike. Yuck!

Old 06-16-21, 11:35 AM
  #126  
WhyFi
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I've never used the Endurance formula, but regular Orange Seal has never given me a reason to look elsewhere.
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Old 06-16-21, 12:24 PM
  #127  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
I've never used the Endurance formula, but regular Orange Seal has never given me a reason to look elsewhere.
Same just a longer shelf life on the shelf and in the tires.
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Old 06-16-21, 12:52 PM
  #128  
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
Same just a longer shelf life on the shelf and in the tires.
I use OS endurance, works excellently.
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Old 06-17-21, 04:53 AM
  #129  
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Originally Posted by Dancing Skeleton View Post
I gotta agree.
I tried Schwalbe Pro One's, and although I really liked the smoothness of the ride, I grew tired of cleaning sealant off my frame after most rides.
The tires got small holes on almost every ride, but sealed up right away. They just made a mess of my bike.
I hate to think of how difficult it would be if I had to put in a tube on the road.
I went back to tubes.
Next I'll try the Aerothan lightweight tubes.
No more road tubeless for me.
It seems from your post, that by no means is it the case that every tire puncture with TL, would it mean that you'd flat if you had a tube? Or did you switch tires too when you went back to tubes?
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Old 06-17-21, 12:25 PM
  #130  
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Started looking for another set of tubeless tires(will use the Gavias as spares). The Pirellis looked good , but don’t come in 32mm. Continental seem to be heavy and a PITA to mount from what I’ve read. So any/all recommendations welcome

Currently running my 32mm at 70psi in the front and 80psi in the rear. I’ll do down to 28mm if necessary(and ride/comfort is nearly identical)
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Old 06-17-21, 12:32 PM
  #131  
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Originally Posted by GBK233 View Post
Started looking for another set of tubeless tires(will use the Gavias as spares). The Pirellis looked good , but don’t come in 32mm. Continental seem to be heavy and a PITA to mount from what I’ve read. So any/all recommendations welcome

Currently running my 32mm at 70psi in the front and 80psi in the rear. I’ll do down to 28mm if necessary(and ride/comfort is nearly identical)
Pirelli Cinturatos are available in 32 mm and P-Zero Race in 30 mm. I replaced my Gavias with the Cinturato 32c for training and no complaints. Actually did a couple of century Sportives on them too. I haven’t run the P-Zeros yet, but planning to try them soon.
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Old 06-17-21, 12:40 PM
  #132  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
Pirelli Cinturatos are available in 32 mm and P-Zero Race in 30 mm. I replaced my Gavias with the Cinturato 32c for training and no complaints. Actually did a couple of century Sportives on them too. I haven’t run the P-Zeros yet, but planning to try them soon.
any idea what diff is between a Cinturato and p-zero race?
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Old 06-17-21, 03:08 PM
  #133  
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Originally Posted by GBK233 View Post
do you ride in crappy areas or did you find that the Schwalbes aren’t really that puncture resistant? The Aerothan tubes have piqued my interest as well
I’ve been using Pro One since they came out, and I love them. I’ve had a couple get incurable tread cuts, but that’s just a matter of luck. I trust those tires to grip and handle as fast as I care to go; I’ve done a hair under 60mph at the top end, but they’ve pulled me through some hairy turns at lower speeds, which is why I trust them… and they feel good.

Speaking of which, I recently abandoned tubeless on some Herse Bon Jon Pass with Extralight casing because I could not get them to seal up securely; the sidewalls just bled air everywhere. Anyway, I popped in some Aerothan tubes, and I can tell you that the ride quality is not as nice and supple as tubeless (at the same pressures).

The Aerothan are light, though— 50g in my 700x35 size— and they’re supposed to be quite resilient and puncture resistant, but more than anything, I’m happy they ended my nightmare with the Bon Jon Extralights. Next time I'll stick to the Standard casing Herse tires for tubeless. I’ve got a set of 650b Herse Switchback Hill Standards which handle tubeless fine.
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Old 06-17-21, 04:03 PM
  #134  
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Originally Posted by GBK233 View Post
any idea what diff is between a Cinturato and p-zero race?
Basically the Cinturatos are more of an endurance all-season tyre with more puncture protection, a little heavier, a little slower rolling. Tons of grip in wet or dry conditions. I like them as an everyday tyre on my Defy and they are more comfortable than the original 28 mm Gavias they replaced. They don't feel any slower either.
P-zero Race TLR are faster, but still have a bit more puncture protection than average for a race tyre. I haven't tried them yet, but planning on using them for some fast Sportives over the next few months.

Good reviews of both here:-

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance...rato-velo-2018

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance...-velo-race-tlr
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Old 06-17-21, 07:35 PM
  #135  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
Basically the Cinturatos are more of an endurance all-season tyre with more puncture protection, a little heavier, a little slower rolling. Tons of grip in wet or dry conditions. I like them as an everyday tyre on my Defy and they are more comfortable than the original 28 mm Gavias they replaced. They don't feel any slower either.
P-zero Race TLR are faster, but still have a bit more puncture protection than average for a race tyre. I haven't tried them yet, but planning on using them for some fast Sportives over the next few months.

Good reviews of both here:-

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance...rato-velo-2018

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance...-velo-race-tlr

I pulled the trigger on the Velos. Hopefully they’ll seat much easier than the Gavias.
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Old 06-18-21, 03:24 AM
  #136  
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Originally Posted by GBK233 View Post
I pulled the trigger on the Velos. Hopefully they’ll seat much easier than the Gavias.
Seating them was not the easiest, but no problem with a boost chamber pump. I think you would struggle with a normal track pump, but depends on your rims. I’m using Giant SLR1 carbon rims.
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Old 06-18-21, 08:49 AM
  #137  
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
Then you haven't done much tubeless then. As a shop owner I have run into piles of combinations that took some finesse even with a compressor that were absolutely impossible with a regular floor pump. One of the tubeless ones with a chamber can usually get the job done.

On the "why would anyone" bit... For the number of flats I have had with a tube (1 in the last 5 years or so) I have absolutely had to do way more for the tubeless systems I have ran than for any tube.
+1 on that! Some tires are really a PITA to seat.
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Old 06-18-21, 02:06 PM
  #138  
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I started road tubeless on Schwalbe One Pro tires and had nothing but trouble with tape failures until I started using Orange Seal Winter with 3M tape. Still had 3 out of 4 of them fail due to (10 mm+ length) sidewall cuts caused by University Students inability to put beer bottles in the appropriate receptacle. Tubes would have done the same thing, and for me a tire with a big cut is not worth the risk.

Switched to Conti GP5000 at the same time that they sent all the boys and girls home for a year. I had one fail at the junction between the sidewall and the bead, probably due to low pressure. When I have checked the pressure before riding, zero failures. I run 25 mm on my road bike and 32 mm on our tandem. I have not found them any harder to mount than the Schwalbe. I used Pedro's levers. I carry a tube as a spare along with a pair of nitryl medical gloves. YMMV.
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Old 06-18-21, 02:51 PM
  #139  
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
Tubeless just isn't the solution to anything other than flats on road.
Yeah, well - I live and ride in a rural, heavily wooded area in Minnesota. Stopping for even a very short period of time at the height of summer can be exceedingly unpleasant from a mosquito perspective - as in practically intolerable. (Been there done that.) I can change a flat pretty fast, but I can plug one even faster and most of the time, I never even know I had a puncture because it just seals up. So flats on the road can be a big deal.

Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
Included as an important subset the proverbial but rarely experienced pinch flat on the road.

Out of all the I-don't-know-how-many thousands of miles, I've had a total of one pinch flat, from a cattle guard when I wasn't paying attention.
Well, I wish I was lucky enough to ride on roads that had no avoidable defects and I wish I was built like a world tour racer, but neither are true for me. Switching from tubes to tubeless means going from 6-10 flats per year to one every other year while riding 4000 miles per year with about half of those being pinch flats. Hard to argue with those results.

As far as mounting tires, it's tricky the first time or two but after that not so much (unless you're a slow learner). There are tire/rim incompatibilities, which hopefully diminish with some upcoming rim and tire standards, but once you figure out what works, it's pretty simple. The biggest thing to avoiding having to install a tube on the road is having a plugger kit. When you get a puncture that doesn't seal in the first rotation or two, jump off, put a thumb over the hole and dig out the plugger with your free hand. Put the plug in and add any air you think you need. Total downtime: less than 30 seconds if you're good. Not even enough time for the mosquitoes to realize you're there.

I'm a fan.
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Old 06-19-21, 12:36 PM
  #140  
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Just back from a 55-mile ride. Apparently, I was supposed to have a flat today. I noticed the spray when I got home. Thanks tubeless!

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Old 06-19-21, 03:38 PM
  #141  
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Originally Posted by Zaskar View Post
Just back from a 55-mile ride. Apparently, I was supposed to have a flat today. I noticed the spray when I got home. Thanks tubeless!

Oh my god you got a bit of sealant on your frame! The horror!
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Old 06-19-21, 03:46 PM
  #142  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
Oh my god you got a bit of sealant on your frame! The horror!
huh?
I was jokingly thanking tubeless - as if it were a person - for handling the puncture for me.
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Old 06-19-21, 03:58 PM
  #143  
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Originally Posted by Zaskar View Post
huh?
I was jokingly thanking tubeless - as if it were a person - for handling the puncture for me.
Yeah I know. I was just poking a bit of fun at people who often dis tubeless because of (the risk of) sealant spray.
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Old 06-19-21, 04:00 PM
  #144  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
Yeah I know. I was just poking a bit of fun at people who often dis tubeless because of (the risk of) sealant spray.
Ahhh... Gotcha. They should see it as a sign of success - it worked!
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Old 06-19-21, 05:02 PM
  #145  
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Originally Posted by Zaskar View Post
huh?
I was jokingly thanking tubeless - as if it were a person - for handling the puncture for me.
I’m right there with you.

I have not had a flat that made stop for the last three years. That’s 12,000 without a flat. Had I been running tubes, that would have represented at least 18 tubes and the time to stop and repair them.

I did have to stop last month and put in a plug which took all of 30s or less. The plug is still there and is holding up just fine. I’m sure it will last the life of the tire.
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Old 06-19-21, 06:08 PM
  #146  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
It seems from your post, that by no means is it the case that every tire puncture with TL, would it mean that you'd flat if you had a tube? Or did you switch tires too when you went back to tubes?
I would not have had a flat with a tube with any of these punctures. At the time, I was using the older version of Bontrager R3's, and averaged one puncture flat every ~1.500 miles.
I hardly went on a ride without the Schwalbe's puncturing & spraying sealant on my frame.
I ride on typical secondary roads west & north of Boston.
Interestingly, I abandon the Schwalbe's for over a year, then remounted them. The rubber didn't seem as "soft", an although I still punctured, it was at much less of a rate.

Yes, I realize that the tires were crap, but what sent me back to tubes is the concern of getting a cut that wouldn't seal, then dealing with the mess of trying to remove the valve install & tube.

I haven't looked back.
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Old 06-20-21, 08:44 AM
  #147  
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Originally Posted by Dancing Skeleton View Post
Yes, I realize that the tires were crap...
Do you? I think you *imagine* the tires were crap, because you’re talking about a tire that debuted at the world tour level back in ‘12 or ‘13 (as the One), and can still be found there today (e.g. under Team Canyon/SRAM). Do you really believe top level pro teams use crap?! Teams which have hundreds of thousands of dollars and careers on the line are less discriminating than you, who is all in for a couple hundred $ max? C’mon, dude.

It would be smarter to acknowledge that the Pro One was not the right tire for your application, or that you simply had a run of bad luck.
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Old 06-20-21, 09:58 AM
  #148  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
Yeah I know. I was just poking a bit of fun at people who often dis tubeless because of (the risk of) sealant spray.
Sealant spray from a rear flat can be inconvenient to clean up, as it often gets in the nooks and crannies of your rear (rim) brake. Q-tip territory.
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Old 06-20-21, 10:04 AM
  #149  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
Sealant spray from a rear flat can be inconvenient to clean up, as it often gets in the nooks and crannies of your rear (rim) brake. Q-tip territory.
Oh okay. Another reason to run disc brakes then.
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Old 06-20-21, 10:15 AM
  #150  
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
Do you? I think you *imagine* the tires were crap, because you’re talking about a tire that debuted at the world tour level back in ‘12 or ‘13 (as the One), and can still be found there today (e.g. under Team Canyon/SRAM). Do you really believe top level pro teams use crap?! Teams which have hundreds of thousands of dollars and careers on the line are less discriminating than you, who is all in for a couple hundred $ max? C’mon, dude.

It would be smarter to acknowledge that the Pro One was not the right tire for your application, or that you simply had a run of bad luck.
I haven't used Schwalbe Pro One tyres (was put off by reviews of them being a bit fragile), but I think I read somewhere that they improved their puncture resistance in later versions. But according to bicyclerollingresistance.com Pirelli currently have the best race tyre for puncture protection, so that's what I chose. I've been running the Pirelli Cinturato training/all-season tyre for a while and those appear to be bomb proof (not a hint of a puncture or cut after riding extensively on crappy roads), but a bit heavy and slower rolling than a more race focused tyre. I've just got hold of a pair of P-Zero Race TLRs to try. I'm hoping they will add a bit of speed and still provide reasonable puncture protection, even if the sealant needs to do a bit of work occasionally.
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