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Training Status??? (IV)

Old 01-25-21, 07:56 AM
  #15851  
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
It's to perform more work.

There's a great article about Will Barta, and one of the "predictors" of racing success in Europe that his coach talked about was 20 minute performance after burning 2.5MJ.

Stuff like that. It's how much work you can do and still perform. And in training, how much work you can handle, recover, and then build off of that with appropriate intensity.

My thinking is by focusing on that work rather than TSS (which, again, can be gamed and skewed by extremely hard, short duration efforts from workouts or races), the more reflective it is of the general fitness you're getting from training. It wouldn't be of much use in comparing from rider to rider as a training trend, but it could be for each specific person in comparison of what they've done in the past for success.
I've thought about using KJs for a while as well. What has always bugged me about TSS/CTL is that it's dependent on your FTP setting, which is very subjective, no matter what. You'll never have an up to the workout accurate FTP. As an example, you could do work for 4 weeks as your FTP is gradually increasing, but only test at the end, if at all. If you didn't update FTP during that time you might think your load was increasing, when actually it was the same. With KJs, you'd have, I think, a better picture of increasing/decreasing workload not matter how diligent you were about FTP updating.
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Old 01-25-21, 10:48 AM
  #15852  
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
10,069 kJ this week in 11:39. Consisted of 48 mins of Z1, 5:15 Z2, 3:33 Z3, 1:35 of Z4, and 24 min of Z5+.

And this week they put a couple of races on the calendar, one at the end of Feb. Might just have a proper race season after all.
Seems like my best kj was last week, 9698, that was at the end of a big sweet spot block. Aside from that I think I have maybe 3 other weeks in the past year where I've surpassed 9000, generally it's 7-8k range.
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Old 01-25-21, 10:56 AM
  #15853  
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Originally Posted by hubcyclist View Post
Seems like my best kj was last week, 9698, that was at the end of a big sweet spot block. Aside from that I think I have maybe 3 other weeks in the past year where I've surpassed 9000, generally it's 7-8k range.
I'm fairly similar. It's definitely a bit of a stretch for me. I'm not sure how feasible it will be to do on a weekly basis unless there are holidays or extra breaks in which I can squeeze in an extra ride or two. But even if I only manage 8500-9000 kJ a week, that'll still be quite a bit more than I regularly do, so should be a decent fitness boost.
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Old 01-25-21, 11:26 AM
  #15854  
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All this Kj talk is giving me but yet another metric to make me feel woefully inadequate.

I am rereading Faster by Hutchinson https://www.amazon.com/Faster-Obsess...s%2C206&sr=8-1 and it is only $1.99 on the Kindle.

It has a lot of interesting discussion on time trials, training concepts, testing and of course pro cycling. IMO, it would be a great read for aspiring time trialists such as burnthesheep
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Old 01-25-21, 11:27 AM
  #15855  
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Just done with my biggest week of training in years. 11 hours on the bike (7264 kJ for those counting) + ~3 hours of alpine skiing Thursday evening and 3.5 hours of easyish xc skiing yesterday. Time for a rest week.
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Old 01-25-21, 11:45 AM
  #15856  
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Just broke 6000 kj (wait, is that 6mj?) last week, my biggest week of the year. Most of it at sweet spot. Feeling a little fatigued today, but it's a scheduled day off that I should probably actually take.
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Old 01-25-21, 12:41 PM
  #15857  
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Originally Posted by caloso View Post
Just broke 6000 kj (wait, is that 6mj?) last week, my biggest week of the year. Most of it at sweet spot. Feeling a little fatigued today, but it's a scheduled day off that I should probably actually take.
Yeah! 6 MJs! Solid.
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Old 01-25-21, 12:47 PM
  #15858  
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Weight is slowly moving in the right direction at 1-2 lbs per month. I don't ever seem to lose weight any faster than that, and maybe that is OK. I'm just a few lbs over what I believe is my best race weight, so I'm hoping to hold here until 2 months before I think races will start, then try to knock off 2-4 more lbs.



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Old 01-25-21, 12:55 PM
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Weekly Kj = 0

SpO2 this AM = 100%. Normally, I am 98/99% at sea level.

Blood oxygen and volume matter.

Last edited by Hermes; 01-25-21 at 01:02 PM.
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Old 01-25-21, 04:43 PM
  #15860  
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received a giant container of maltodextrine powder from amazon today. gonna mix with gatorade for homemade beta fuel. I'm looking to try seeing what my workouts are like with 90g carbs/hr, because I generally don't consume more than 3-400 calories during a workout, which lately are in the 1500kj range. I'm not struggling at all, but I think I can be better so I'm trying to focus more with fueling on the bike and not off it.
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Old 01-25-21, 10:04 PM
  #15861  
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Opener ride this morning, 24' of moderate SST up Epic KOM, then 10' (ish) of threshold-y on Fuego Flats reverse and then a big ring smash up the Zwift KOM. I got the last two segments/jerseys which is pretty sweet.

FTP test tomorrow. It won't be the best conditions with chilly (for here) temps, wind and water on the ground, but I should at least get a hard effort out of it. In any event, I expect my result to be within a 5-7 watt window so it won't affect my training zones too much really.
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Old 01-26-21, 11:51 AM
  #15862  
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Did 3x 10 threshold intervals with Thing 3 yesterday in the rain/dark at the Veloway. Trying to teach him how to keep power up in spite of turning/slowing (control speed with front brake and power with the rear brake). He was getting it by the end. Good feeling for me b/c I was dropping his skinny ass by the end of the workout. Then he went for a really fast hilly ride second workout in the afternoon faster than I've ever done it O_o.

I'm starting to learn how to balance my own 2x/day training rides. Four days/week, I train road in the morning, then coach the MTB team later. Weekdays, that means really really hard road intervals with their Jr. dev team on knobbies. I'm learning that I cannot do two really hard interval workouts in the same day more than 1x/week
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Old 01-26-21, 12:44 PM
  #15863  
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tried to do the kolie moore ftp test, was not feeling it. Was definitely flat as hell after just z2 stuff all week. I did 10min at 93% and a couple of mins at 100% and my motivation to do that was zero. So ended up doing 60mins of z2, probably should have done openers.
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Old 01-26-21, 04:04 PM
  #15864  
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Originally Posted by hubcyclist View Post
tried to do the kolie moore ftp test, was not feeling it. Was definitely flat as hell after just z2 stuff all week. I did 10min at 93% and a couple of mins at 100% and my motivation to do that was zero. So ended up doing 60mins of z2, probably should have done openers.
Yea I usually do. Doing a test up Alpe du Zwift on Saturday, openers Friday after a couple z2 days.

Actually had a consult with Kolie the other day, got some useful info, going to try the "lots of threshold work" approach for a bit. When I tried it before I burned out and didn't gain much, but I was also doing 20 min tests and my intervals ended up way too hard. Also didn't really follow the progressive overload and recovery parts too well.
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Old 01-26-21, 04:07 PM
  #15865  
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Originally Posted by wktmeow View Post
Yea I usually do. Doing a test up Alpe du Zwift on Saturday, openers Friday after a couple z2 days.

Actually had a consult with Kolie the other day, got some useful info, going to try the "lots of threshold work" approach for a bit. When I tried it before I burned out and didn't gain much, but I was also doing 20 min tests and my intervals ended up way too hard. Also didn't really follow the progressive overload and recovery parts too well.
What did you do, just pay him for an hour consultation or so?

I talked to one of his coaches about possibly signing up for coaching with them, but decided I'm a ways off from working with a coach.
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Old 01-26-21, 04:20 PM
  #15866  
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Originally Posted by ridethecliche View Post
What did you do, just pay him for an hour consultation or so?

I talked to one of his coaches about possibly signing up for coaching with them, but decided I'm a ways off from working with a coach.
Yep, couldn't afford coaching but figured I could make sure I was on the right track with my own plan and periodization strategy. It was super helpful
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Old 01-26-21, 04:35 PM
  #15867  
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Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
All this Kj talk is giving me but yet another metric to make me feel woefully inadequate.

I am rereading Faster by Hutchinson https://www.amazon.com/Faster-Obsess...s%2C206&sr=8-1 and it is only $1.99 on the Kindle.

It has a lot of interesting discussion on time trials, training concepts, testing and of course pro cycling. IMO, it would be a great read for aspiring time trialists such as burnthesheep
Thanks! Checking in on that now.

Always fun to have an interesting read handy.
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Old 01-26-21, 04:39 PM
  #15868  
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Originally Posted by wktmeow View Post
Yep, couldn't afford coaching but figured I could make sure I was on the right track with my own plan and periodization strategy. It was super helpful
I've considered tossing some cash for a consult, but can't afford enough for a full on coach. I think it may be useful to have someone take a glance at each year "in review" and say hey, if this is what you're really wanting to do........I notice X,Y,Z. If you tell me to do/try it, I have the brains to put it into Trainingpeaks.

I learn fast, but I'll always be missing something along the way that the much much more experienced folks would notice.
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Old 01-26-21, 11:05 PM
  #15869  
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Zwift race tonight. Zwift racing is weird and kind of dumb but it is also kind of fun. Why is the east coast league at 7:48 on a Tuesday though?! I'm not about to change my weekend rides and/or do openers on monday for a Zwift race. I also don't want to get off a bike at like 9pm.

Things learned:
-You can press space bar(!) instead of clicking the power up on the screen. I did not find this out until after the race though, so I was one handed out of the saddle doing 500-550w while trying to click on the feather. At one point I accidentally opened an excel spreadsheet?
-Sticky draft is the worst thing ever wtf
-Do not bring b-minus legs to a wtrl league race lolol

Last edited by TheKillerPenguin; 01-26-21 at 11:12 PM.
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Old 01-26-21, 11:16 PM
  #15870  
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Originally Posted by wktmeow View Post
Yep, couldn't afford coaching but figured I could make sure I was on the right track with my own plan and periodization strategy. It was super helpful
He's the ECCC head honcho for collegiate and we have a couple of friends in common. I've talked to him on instagram a few times and he seems like a totally stand up guy. His instagram Q&A's are very good as well and worth checking out. Alex, one of his coaches, seemed like a great dude as well. And that monster 2100W+ sprint for kohlie. Hot damn.

I'm sort of glad I ended up not committing to the coaching thing... knee flared up again and I've had a few health things in the last couple of weeks and tldr I haven't been on the bike in atleast 2 weeks...

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Old 01-27-21, 07:25 AM
  #15871  
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Been writing and using my own Zwift workouts now. The "time in zone" at the end of them now makes a lot more sense than the Zwift nonsense from before. Now I'm getting the durations in zone per workout I want to see. Not the random mishmash of zones and steps they had.

I wrote a 40/20 workout that I did last night. Success. The workout was mostly all Z1 and Z5 except for a hair of stuff in warmup, and some Z2 once the workout was completed going into cooldown. I'm sure Zwift would have had a ton of random Z3/Z4 spattered in there.

1:15 workout, 25min in Z5 total. The 40/20's really seem to optimize how long you can spend there!
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Old 01-27-21, 09:26 AM
  #15872  
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Yesterday, trainer workout. With all the past chainless workouts, we knew there had to be a correction. An 800 pound gorilla shows up with a rusty logging chain and puts it on my drive train. He then jumps on my back. My workout felt like the last 250 meters of a kilo.

All that neuromuscular skiing at altitude generated a lot of fatigue. And going from 7000 feet back to sea level takes its toll even if I do get a slight bump in red blood cells from the short altitude block. I should give myself a 2000 TSS for last week.
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Old 01-27-21, 10:40 AM
  #15873  
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Did a 90min z2 session today, was solidly uneventful, I'm using my current FTP of 300w after doing all z2 stuff last week based on 305w, so it was easy. I'm unreasonably scared about tomorrow where I have a series of 7x5min intervals at 108%. The idea of doing 324w for 5min, after spending 12 weeks mainly doing intervals in the 270-280 range, seems daunting. But it's my 41st bday tomorrow so maybe the universe will be kind to me lol
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Old 01-27-21, 11:08 AM
  #15874  
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Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin View Post
Zwift race tonight. Zwift racing is weird and kind of dumb but it is also kind of fun. Why is the east coast league at 7:48 on a Tuesday though?! I'm not about to change my weekend rides and/or do openers on monday for a Zwift race. I also don't want to get off a bike at like 9pm.

Things learned:
-You can press space bar(!) instead of clicking the power up on the screen. I did not find this out until after the race though, so I was one handed out of the saddle doing 500-550w while trying to click on the feather. At one point I accidentally opened an excel spreadsheet?
-Sticky draft is the worst thing ever wtf
-Do not bring b-minus legs to a wtrl league race lolol
I feel that way about Zwift in general. I think once I accepted it as it was, it was a lot better. I sort of enjoy the routes with multiple big climbs, even if they're longer.

I've still only done a handful of races, and not even finished most of them; the effort is so wildly different from a race effort that my legs just won't play ball. I need to shoot for one a week and get in the swing of it. Annoyingly, I feel as nervous as I would for an IRL race, and I can live with that extra does of stress because I love it. Having more Zwift racing reps will hopefully chill me out.
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Old 01-28-21, 08:28 AM
  #15875  
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One thing with this stuff I'd like to learn more about (thinking about our KJ conversation) is perhaps what workouts are optimal NEXT after the workout you just did for specific examples.

I feel sometimes it wouldn't matter a whole lot. But other times it may.

Example:
Tuesday I doubled up. I hadn't ran in a while, so ran for 45min at lunch. Zone 2. Felt great, felt easy. Tuesday night after a good meal I did my 40/20 workout. A tough workout. Lots of Z5 time. 165 TSS in a day for me is a lot. So, the smartest move was take an off day yesterday. I made sure to walk a good amount at lunch on the off day, did some plank/pushups, stretched, used the foam roller. Now..........today. I'm thinking, what would be "optimal" after a day off and the 40/20's. I don't think another super tough high intensity workout would be in store. I'm thinking probably just 2hrs Z2 free-ride on Zwift tonight.

It's that kind of thing I feel I could do better at.
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