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Cycling shorts

Old 06-08-21, 07:53 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
I wear regular cargo shorts. I like them because they have a lot of pockets. If I need more comfort on a longer ride I wear padded bike shorts underneath my cargo shorts.
Same here! But shorter-inseam hiking shorts - probably no more than a 4-5" inseam - mid thigh at the longest!.

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Old 06-08-21, 08:20 AM
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I am not going to say what will or will not work for someone else, but I think some folks need to understand that cycling ďbaggiesĒ are not the same thing as cargo shorts, or even cargo shorts over road shorts or liners.

Baggie cyliing shorts have two parts: the shell and the lining.

Shell: yes, you CAN use any pair of shorts as a shell, and some are apparently fine with that. But there are differences between GOOD dedicated baggie shells and non-cycling shorts.

Good baggie shells come up a little higher in the back to hide the plumberís crack, and also have stretch panels in just the right places, allowing them to be a little more form fitting while still having the free movement needed. Also the seams tend to be more well thought out. Pockets on well designed shorts are off to the side and in a position so you can put stuff in them and not have it interfere when pedaling (which is something I find can be an issue with most regular shorts).

Liners: yes you CAN use a regular pair of road shorts as your liner. And this works fine for some folks. But there are some key differences between road shorts and liners with a chamois:

When worn under a shell, good dedicated liners are going to be cooler than road shorts (under a shell) in hot weather. Also, in my experience, most road shorts are much more slippery on the outside than liners and I have found I sometimes have issues keeping the shell in place over them. Some shells deal OK with this, others nor.

Fwiw, I wear both baggies and Road shorts, so I have no dog in this fight. But I do think that folks need to try the good stuff before discounting its value.

All that said, for shorter rides I can go in just about anything. For commuting and errands Iíll wear jeans and boxers.
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Old 06-08-21, 09:12 AM
  #53  
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Someone talked about shorts costing a percentage of your bike. That is simply nonsense!!! You probably know by now I ride bents a LWB bike, and a trike. My shorts are rugby shorts that I get at Scheels. They are basically sweat shorts. They cost a whole $15. So along with $15 T-shirts my whole "kit" costs me $30.

I dont have to wear obscenely priced shorts designed to protect me from my bike or trike. BB that is before bents, my first ride in the spring just plain made my rump hurt. With bents that doesnt happen. That is a fact that everyone, especially older riders should look into.
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Old 06-08-21, 09:23 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
So are you basically saying cycling is some kind of elitist activity where marketing is taken to the extreme? So let's say these people who you have had conversations with are put off cycling simply because of the marketing of expensive bikes and gear. What do you think is going to happen differently when they research pretty much any alternative activity? By the same rationale they can also forget about golf, skiing, running, tennis, fishing, hiking, etc, etc. as the inevitable marketing of "gear" will simply be too much for them to cope with.

Personally I haven't seen much evidence of this kind of thing happening out in the real world. Most casual cyclists I know don't ask many questions. They simply ride around on old, cheap bikes and wear whatever they feel like. Those who take cycling up as a more serious hobby soon work out what they need/want to buy. They come to forums like this to ask people to recommend them stuff - like cycling shorts for example. There's no need to patronise people for supposedly being taken in by marketing claims just because they choose to ride in clothes actually designed for riding in. I think it is actually very rare for someone completely new to cycling to rock up at their local bike shop and spend a fortune on bikes and cycling gear. I think most people usually do start off simple and cheap and then work their way up as they get more into it. I wouldn't let it worry you.

Well, thanks for putting a gigantic straw man argument into my mouth, but I don't think there's anything wrong with acknowledging to people who are new to the activity that they really do need to learn for themselves what works and what doesn't. And yes, I have seen a few "I don't think I need... is there something wrong with me" posts on this forum. Those are often followed by a lot of posts that say, essentially "If you don't buy..... you'll be sorry."

All I said was I've seen people get intimidated away from cycling, so I think a little reminder here and there that's there's some simple ways to try first is probably a good thing. You're the one freaking out and worrying.

Sorry, but I really am not aware of super expensive swim trunks being a thing.

And I never accused anyone of "being taken in", that's your spin.
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Old 06-08-21, 09:42 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Blah, blah, blah. Like most people these days, they "research" the requirements of the activity by googling "what you need to know" articles and the like. Those are usually connected by ad revenue or otherwise to the products they will label as essential, and just searching on this is going to make the Pearl Azumi ads and the like pop up repeatedly in their browser.

To me what you just said sounds exactly like the marketers party line--convincing people that their product is necessary or beneficial by overstating the case is what they do. The best marketing doesn't even look like marketing. "Might not be the best experience" is so vague that it really can't be questioned, but it sure sounds like something I should worry about. It ignores the fact that most of the world doesn't wear anything special for their riding.

This is part of a much bigger discussion of whether the perception that road cycling has a high barrier to entry (which I think is out there) is a problem if you want more people to get involved. But OP is asking about shorts, so I'm going to bow out from that thread hijack.

Preach, brotherman! You donít even need a BIKE to go ride as long as you have a broomstick and an imagination! Just hop on and flog it. Screw those Madison Avenue losers!!! 3-piece suit = real bike gear, man. And dong get me started on scuba gear. You donít need a regulator. Just suck straight off the tank if you need that crutch. Real scuba Bros just hold their breath until they decide itís time to yell at a shark! Gloves and a jacket, pants, goggles for skiing? Only if youíre posing in the lodge, dudes. I only wear socks and a toque because Iím immune to marketing, gear pressure and common sense.
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Old 06-08-21, 09:49 AM
  #56  
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What we need to work for is letting everyone know that cycling IS NOT an elitist activity. There is no reason that everyone should not be able to enjoy our sport.

This is why I do not buy into all the "rules" the "real cyclist" put forward. Ride what you can afford, where, when, and how it pleases you. And that includes what you wear.
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Old 06-08-21, 10:43 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by AdkMtnMonster View Post
Preach, brotherman! You don’t even need a BIKE to go ride as long as you have a broomstick and an imagination! Just hop on and flog it. Screw those Madison Avenue losers!!! 3-piece suit = real bike gear, man. And dong get me started on scuba gear. You don’t need a regulator. Just suck straight off the tank if you need that crutch. Real scuba Bros just hold their breath until they decide it’s time to yell at a shark! Gloves and a jacket, pants, goggles for skiing? Only if you’re posing in the lodge, dudes. I only wear socks and a toque because I’m immune to marketing, gear pressure and common sense.

Oh, come on, I've seen people post here that the entry level bikes start at $2000. There's a hell of a lot of room between that and all you need is a broomstick. But go ahead, make fun of arguments no one is actually making, it's the only thing you're good at.
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Old 06-08-21, 11:08 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post

I only worry that some people get discouraged from trying to ride because some salesperson has convinced them they shouldn't ride a few miles without wearing $500 in kit.

Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
You're the one freaking out and worrying
Right. I'm not really bothered about other people's bike purchasing habits, but you appear to be the one worrying about some imaginary salesperson.
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Old 06-08-21, 11:29 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post

Sorry, but I really am not aware of super expensive swim trunks .
Eh???
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Old 06-08-21, 11:54 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post

And I never accused anyone of "being taken in", that's your spin.
My spin? How else would anyone interpret your various posts about bike gear marketing putting people off riding?
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Old 06-08-21, 12:49 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
Right. I'm not really bothered about other people's bike purchasing habits, but you appear to be the one worrying about some imaginary salesperson.
I already said I shouldn't have said salesperson when I was referring to marketing.

Genug, already, I didn't call you or anyone else a sucker or even imply it.

I'm describing actual conversations I've had with people, but you want to insist it's fictional, knock yourself out. You've worked really hard to get this offended, what with the rewriting and out of context quoting, so obviously you should get to enjoy your fine umbrage, maybe with a nice chianti.

I have no problem with anyone's informed spending habits. You're arguing with voices in your head, not anything I'm saying.
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Old 06-08-21, 01:55 PM
  #62  
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Gym shorts with $35 padded bike shorts underneath, when I remember to grab them
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Old 06-08-21, 02:00 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
So are you basically saying cycling is some kind of elitist activity where marketing is taken to the extreme? So let's say these people who you have had conversations with are put off cycling simply because of the marketing of expensive bikes and gear. What do you think is going to happen differently when they research pretty much any alternative activity? By the same rationale they can also forget about golf, skiing, running, tennis, fishing, hiking, etc, etc. as the inevitable marketing of "gear" will simply be too much for them to cope with.

Personally I haven't seen much evidence of this kind of thing happening out in the real world. Most casual cyclists I know don't ask many questions. They simply ride around on old, cheap bikes and wear whatever they feel like. Those who take cycling up as a more serious hobby soon work out what they need/want to buy. They come to forums like this to ask people to recommend them stuff - like cycling shorts for example. There's no need to patronise people for supposedly being taken in by marketing claims just because they choose to ride in clothes actually designed for riding in. I think it is actually very rare for someone completely new to cycling to rock up at their local bike shop and spend a fortune on bikes and cycling gear. I think most people usually do start off simple and cheap and then work their way up as they get more into it. I wouldn't let it worry you.
I agree with you for the most part but IMO, cycling really does involve a disproportionate amount of marketing.
You have to look no further than the multiple old posts about people advocating for hand washing their $300 polyester overalls
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Old 06-08-21, 02:11 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
These are well made, inexpensive, and they get great reviews for fit and comfort:

https://theblackbibs.com/collections/mens-bottoms

No pockets in these shorts. Pockets belong on the back of jerseys.
I have a friend who wears bibs from this company and he swears by them. The ones he has have side pockets where you can slip in your phone, gu, or whatever.
I'm glad I saw this post as it reminded me I've been meaning to check out the women's shorts.
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Old 06-08-21, 02:23 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I already said I shouldn't have said salesperson when I was referring to marketing.

Genug, already, I didn't call you or anyone else a sucker or even imply it.

I'm describing actual conversations I've had with people, but you want to insist it's fictional, knock yourself out. You've worked really hard to get this offended, what with the rewriting and out of context quoting, so obviously you should get to enjoy your fine umbrage, maybe with a nice chianti.

I have no problem with anyone's informed spending habits. You're arguing with voices in your head, not anything I'm saying.

Top irony here! I don't remember insisting your conversations with people were fictional. But your numerous assertions about how people would perceive the bike industry is largely in your own head and I would suggest it is really a reflection of how you see the industry yourself.
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Old 06-08-21, 02:25 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by downhillmaster View Post
I agree with you for the most part but IMO, cycling really does involve a disproportionate amount of marketing.
You have to look no further than the multiple old posts about people advocating for hand washing their $300 polyester overalls
Oh for sure it does. I'm just pointing out that this also applies to pretty much every other sporting activity too.
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Old 06-08-21, 02:27 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
Top irony here! I don't remember insisting your conversations with people were fictional. But your numerous assertions about how people would perceive the bike industry is largely in your own head and I would suggest it is really a reflection of how you see the industry yourself.

Yes, I admit that my ideas emerge from my head. You must be some kind of anatomy genius.
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Old 06-08-21, 02:50 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
Oh for sure it does. I'm just pointing out that this also applies to pretty much every other sporting activity too.
That's a ridiculous overstatement.

Swimming?

Softball?

Jogging?

Rock climbing?

Soccer?

Skateboarding?

Bowling?

Most sporting activities don't have the high-end super expensive end of things like bicycling does, but please tell me that golf doesn't have an elitist image.

Honestly, I don't even know what you think you're disagreeing with--are you denying that there are some people who are put off by the perceived cost of the activity? All I'm saying is that I think I've helped a few people get into it by showing them there are cheap ways to try things out.

I haven't even said marketing is a bad thing, just that it has costs, like everything else does.

Marketers create demand and try to convince people they need whatever it is they're trying to sell. That's not a conspiracy theory, it's the job description. At its best, bike industry marketing can expand people's knowledge of the possible range of things you can do with the machine. At its worst, it can discourage and confuse.
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Old 06-08-21, 02:51 PM
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News Flash:

Cycling has some marketing involved trying to sell you more stuff. and/or more expensive stuff.

And some enthusiasts like to spend more money on the sport than non-enthusiasts would think reasonable.

I am sure there are sports or activities for what this is not true, but I can't think of any.
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Old 06-08-21, 05:03 PM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post

Most sporting activities don't have the high-end super expensive end of things like bicycling does, but please tell me that golf doesn't have an elitist image.
Have you seen the price of high-end football (sorry soccer) boots or running shoes? Pretty comparable with high end bike shoes. Cycling unfortunately requires a bike of course.

Why would I tell you that golf doesnít have an elitist image? Cycling is far more accessible to people on a limited budget. Many keen cyclists I know are not what you would call wealthy. But I know of some who spend more on their bikes than they do on their car. They just prioritise what makes them happy.
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Old 06-08-21, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
Have you seen the price of high-end football (sorry soccer) boots or running shoes? Pretty comparable with high end bike shoes. Cycling unfortunately requires a bike of course.

Why would I tell you that golf doesnít have an elitist image? Cycling is far more accessible to people on a limited budget. Many keen cyclists I know are not what you would call wealthy. But I know of some who spend more on their bikes than they do on their car. They just prioritise what makes them happy.

Look, you and I are not talking about the same thing, I think the problem area in the current situation is at the entry level and you keep taking this as some sort of slam at enthusiasts who like expensive bikes and accessories. I don't "worry" about them, they know what they like and they certainly don't need my advice. But a newbie really doesn't know what they don't know. They often don't have the knowledge to sort out the "I need this for my first 15 mile ride" from the "I'm going to be ok without that." And I've seen people get very discouraged at that stage.

Yeah, when I distinguish cycling from soccer, the bike is a huge difference in the level of marketing and the cost of entry. Sure, you can pay a lot for footwear for both running and futbol, but that's pretty much where the money pit ends. Telling someone you have to buy a four-figure "entry level" bike and then add several hundreds of dollars in accessories and kit to make sure you have a good first experience, as I've seen people do, really does end the conversation for a lot of people who believe that.

The point about golf is exactly that sporting activities with an extremely high end of equipment do tend to get an elitist image. Marketing aims at that segment because that's where the high margins are, and that's likely going to give newbies a bit of a distorted picture of what cycling is really like.

I don't even think you and I are disagreeing, you are right people do find ways to do it on a budget. I guess I've just known more people who didn't know that than you have.
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Old 06-08-21, 06:20 PM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by Kapusta View Post
News Flash:
Cycling has some marketing involved trying to sell you more stuff. and/or more expensive stuff.
Is that legal, persuading people to buy more stuff?
And some enthusiasts like to spend more money on the sport than non-enthusiasts would think reasonable.
No way. Say it ain't so.
I am sure there are sports or activities for what this is not true, but I can't think of any.
Frisbee golf?
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Old 06-08-21, 09:51 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by UCantTouchThis View Post
How about Curling? ^^^^^
You can't survive without your own ice rink!
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Old 06-09-21, 02:47 AM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
But a newbie really doesn't know what they don't know. They often don't have the knowledge to sort out the "I need this for my first 15 mile ride" from the "I'm going to be ok without that." And I've seen people get very discouraged at that stage.

Telling someone you have to buy a four-figure "entry level" bike and then add several hundreds of dollars in accessories and kit to make sure you have a good first experience, as I've seen people do, really does end the conversation for a lot of people who believe that.
This is where we differ. I donít come across these people you are describing. Itís actually the people with high-end bike gear that are relatively rare. If I go to our local park I see hundreds of people casually biking around the paths on all sorts of cheap bikes, wearing casual clothes.

It is only the more committed hobby cyclists that tend to get into the various tiers of expenditure on bikes and gear. At some point those people inevitably upgrade to more expensive bikes and, dare I say it, cycling shorts. I donít see these people being put off by a bit of marketing unless they live in some kind of 19th century bubble. Cycling appears to be getting more popular where I live in the UK, particularly road biking.
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Old 06-09-21, 03:31 AM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
This is where we differ. I don’t come across these people you are describing. It’s actually the people with high-end bike gear that are relatively rare. If I go to our local park I see hundreds of people casually biking around the paths on all sorts of cheap bikes, wearing casual clothes.

It is only the more committed hobby cyclists that tend to get into the various tiers of expenditure on bikes and gear. At some point those people inevitably upgrade to more expensive bikes and, dare I say it, cycling shorts. I don’t see these people being put off by a bit of marketing unless they live in some kind of 19th century bubble. Cycling appears to be getting more popular where I live in the UK, particularly road biking.
So basically you are a British person telling me that things in New Hampshire are the same as they are in Britain?! Road bicycling (and that has been what I'm talking about) is much more of a niche activity here. I get harassed by drivers in some places because they think bicycles aren't supposed to be on roads.

Honestly, I have very little idea how bicycles are marketed and sold in Britain, but I suspect it's quite a bit different here.

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