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Ti Bike: "The Last Bike You'll Ever Buy" What About Carbon Bikes?

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Ti Bike: "The Last Bike You'll Ever Buy" What About Carbon Bikes?

Old 06-11-21, 01:56 PM
  #51  
lifanus
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
Is that a MUP lane?
Yes it is... It's the Gov Mario M. Cuomo Bridge between NJ/NY.
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Old 06-11-21, 02:08 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged View Post
Not sure the point of the picture. If a manufacturer was able to make a sub-600-gram titanium frame that was rideable I am sure it would not have faired much better.
Nah - a 600g Ti frame would have never made it that far.

Unless we're talking something like this -

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Old 06-11-21, 02:15 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by lifanus View Post
Yes it is... It's the Gov Mario M. Cuomo Bridge between NJ/NY.
Wow.. I've ridden that once. Hope anyone/everyone is ok, but what was run into that caused that amount of damage? Wheel looks ok curiously.
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Old 06-12-21, 04:39 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by lifanus View Post
Our local riding group just posted a picture of a crash, it doesn't matter what kind of bike. High end bikes are designed to shave weight as much as possible to squeeze extra power during a race, they are not designed to take on a beating and last forever if you know what I mean... Afterall they are designed to win races, pros gets them for free, us consumers gets them because pros ride them and win races on them... Marketing effect.

High end bikes are usually designed to shave weight, when it comes to durability, one crash maybe all it needs to get a new one.
wow, that looks high impact.. but then again i have seen low speed crashes that just torqued the back stay ,, the thing is with carbon fiber you never really know what the damage really looks like... did the guy ride out the crash or what it some serious ER kinda stuff... every time i see one of these bikes explode like this it just confirms my belief... stick with steel.. and Ti but thats just me.
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Old 06-12-21, 07:37 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by scuzzo View Post
wow, that looks high impact.. but then again i have seen low speed crashes that just torqued the back stay ,, the thing is with carbon fiber you never really know what the damage really looks like... did the guy ride out the crash or what it some serious ER kinda stuff... every time i see one of these bikes explode like this it just confirms my belief... stick with steel.. and Ti but thats just me.
Definitely high impact, this guy was in a peloton going super fast (probably faster than the posted speed limit on the bridge...) on the multi-use lane, hit another cyclist head-on (on the wrong side of the lane), and went to ER straight-away. The other cyclist who was in his lane luckily only had minor injuries.
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Old 06-12-21, 07:46 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Nah - a 600g Ti frame would have never made it that far.

Unless we're talking something like this -

https://www.instagram.com/p/B0CmRVDFMca/
Thats a good solution, as the bottom bracket is often a point of failure in Ti bikes. Why not just remove it?
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Old 06-13-21, 02:39 AM
  #57  
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I hate to be the dissenting opinion (well, not really) but I sold my Ti bike last year and have no regrets sticking solely to carbon. Better ride characteristics (atleast for my preferences). If it assplodes in 10 years (or 14 months), I will buy another. In the grand scheme of things, paying $5-10k every decade for something that gives me a lot of pleasure is worth it. And cheaper than strippers and blow, as an added bonus.

I am also going to sell my steel bike as soon as i get my paws on a Domane.
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Old 06-13-21, 03:25 PM
  #58  
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Old 06-13-21, 04:12 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by scuzzo View Post
every time i see one of these bikes explode like this it just confirms my belief... stick with steel.. and Ti but thats just me.
It didnít just randomly explode.
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Old 06-14-21, 12:19 AM
  #60  
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To be honest pretty much all reasonably designed road bike frames should outlast you if they were manufactured without defects and never subjected to any external forces beyond those of ordinary riding.

Carbon is more likely to die earlier in most cases because it's the most vulnerable to sharp impacts as well as wear to press fit bearing interfaces. Also a lot of bikes have rivnuts die on them (also common on aluminum frames). Titanium in particular is nice for longevity because an unfinished titanium bike can be restored to a like new surface with some scotchbrite. Titanium is also relatively ductile so in general ti frames are probably a little less likely to dent than steel

Also, to be honest, a lot of carbon frames (and to a lesser extent aluminum frames) have a style and design language that pretty clearly indicates the date of manufacture, with styles shifting between the seasons. Ti and steel bikes tend to follow somewhat more consistent design .styles and can therefor be a bit more timeless in look.

If you like your SuperSix Evo (I like my 2011 SuperSix a lot) and you're lucky that you haven't had BB problems with it (as Cannondale's tolerances with it were kind of all over the place) I can't imagine why you'd replace it now just because it MAY fail at some indeterminate point in the future. If you wanted, I dunno, wider tire clearance and/or disc brakes that'd be another thing.
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Old 06-14-21, 03:49 AM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by cpach View Post
To be honest pretty much all reasonably designed road bike frames should outlast you if they were manufactured without defects and never subjected to any external forces beyond those of ordinary riding.

Carbon is more likely to die earlier in most cases because it's the most vulnerable to sharp impacts as well as wear to press fit bearing interfaces. Also a lot of bikes have rivnuts die on them (also common on aluminum frames). Titanium in particular is nice for longevity because an unfinished titanium bike can be restored to a like new surface with some scotchbrite. Titanium is also relatively ductile so in general ti frames are probably a little less likely to dent than steel

Also, to be honest, a lot of carbon frames (and to a lesser extent aluminum frames) have a style and design language that pretty clearly indicates the date of manufacture, with styles shifting between the seasons. Ti and steel bikes tend to follow somewhat more consistent design .styles and can therefor be a bit more timeless in look.

If you like your SuperSix Evo (I like my 2011 SuperSix a lot) and you're lucky that you haven't had BB problems with it (as Cannondale's tolerances with it were kind of all over the place) I can't imagine why you'd replace it now just because it MAY fail at some indeterminate point in the future. If you wanted, I dunno, wider tire clearance and/or disc brakes that'd be another thing.
Some good points here.

Threaded BBs are making a comeback on carbon frames, so thatís one less potential longevity problem.

Impact protection can be improved with use of protective film etc and hasnít really proven to be a major problem with MTBs and even less so with road bikes. But I agree there is more vulnerability to casual abuse with a carbon frame. With some super-light frames you are even warned not to sit on the top tube. But thatís more of a design compromise than an inherent material weakness. A super-lightweight metal frame would also be more fragile.

The Achilles heel of a Ti frame is the welded joints, which are prone to fatigue sooner or later.

I think the classic look of a metal framed bike is really what drives their longevity. Carbon frames are more of the moment, but Iím not sure there is much further for them to go in design evolution from this point. Aero optimisation will converge on a single design point and non-aero designs like the Aethos are driven by FEA, the results of which again will not vary much. Perhaps any future change in UCI regulations could drive a more radical change in design.
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Old 06-14-21, 03:36 PM
  #62  
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deleted... so there

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Old 06-17-21, 07:06 AM
  #63  
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I still want a custom Ti bike and it will likely be a T-Lab, Moots, or Firefly. If steel- maybe Indy Fab. That said, I think carbon offers the best ride quality- not all carbon but a few and that is the dilemma. Good carbon bikes also absorb bigger hits the best, while Ti does a great job with the smaller ones and imperfections. Many carbon frames are too stiff since they are the really racy bikes and some are too soft in the endurance lines. I think carbon probably lasts a good ten years before it starts to soften up- this is not scientific but by feel. Ti or steel likely last longer but I tire of bikes every 3-5 years anyway and sell them. What I have not figured out is if steel or Ti is better. The choice of tubes and butting is the key, based on rider weight and ride-quality desired. Steel and Ti can ride pretty harsh too. Choose carefully. I'd prob choose a butted-tube frame that is pretty laterally stiff since my downhills are so fast and often twisty. Laterally soft bikes are awful (like my buddy's Ti Dean) while stiffer bikes feel far safer and hold lines better. I just need a little vertical compliance with a stiff BB and downtube/toptube area. Just my thoughts....
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Old 06-17-21, 12:13 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by Chandne View Post
I think carbon probably lasts a good ten years before it starts to soften up- this is not scientific but by feel.
You're right, it's not scientific. Nor is is true.

Frames do not soften over time. Not carbon, not steel, not titanium, not aluminum.
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Old 06-17-21, 12:18 PM
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Yeah, not the carbon itself but the resin does break down. Alloy wheels soften up too, over years of beating. I don't think Ti frames do but who knows.
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Old 06-17-21, 12:20 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by Chandne View Post
I think carbon probably lasts a good ten years before it starts to soften up- this is not scientific but by feel.
My 18yo carbon road bike tells me you have no idea what you're talking about. My 22yo carbon MTB agrees.

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Old 06-17-21, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Chandne View Post
Alloy wheels soften up too, over years of beating.
Also not true.
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Old 06-17-21, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
You're right, it's not scientific. Nor is is true.

Frames do not soften over time. Not carbon, not steel, not titanium, not aluminum.
Whatever, I use a stack of carbon bikes as a pillow, never had a better night's sleep. You think down is soft? Try old crank arms! 🙃
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Old 06-17-21, 12:28 PM
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I think my bike is getting stiffer. Or maybe I am getting softer.
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Old 06-17-21, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
Also not true.
LOL okay Einstein.
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Old 06-17-21, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
Whatever, I use a stack of carbon bikes as a pillow, never had a better night's sleep. You think down is soft? Try old crank arms! 🙃
I think our bones are getting softer too. I use old carbon frames as toothbrushes though.
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Old 06-17-21, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Chandne View Post
Alloy wheels soften up too, over years of beating.
Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
Also not true.
Originally Posted by Chandne View Post
LOL okay Einstein.
Want to compare CVs?

Or share your theory of how Young's modulus of aluminum alloy changes over time?

Our would you rather just admit you lack knowledge of how metals behave?
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Old 06-17-21, 01:04 PM
  #73  
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Ooh...so impressive. I think half my HS buddies went there but for their MBAs and they did not turn out well. Decent jobs but psychotic or something. You probably should have gone to Yale. ...less commoner-esque.

Last edited by StanSeven; 06-17-21 at 01:33 PM.
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Old 06-17-21, 01:17 PM
  #74  
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There is a ton of easily-accessible information on the magical interwebz about material properties, including stuff specific to bicycles. You don't need to have a degree from a prestigious university - or even have stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night - to get accurate information.

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Old 06-17-21, 01:23 PM
  #75  
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Hah! Bending metal changes their crystalline structure, IIRC. Maybe I dreamed that years ago. Bending them slightly as they deform as in a rim, continues to happen hundred of thousands of times. Over years, metal will fatigue. Resin will break down too with enough cycles. This is why alloy wheels like Stan's Crests "soften up" and need to be trued more and more often till they are trash. Do they still have Holiday Inn Expresses, or are you just saying that to appear witty?

Last edited by StanSeven; 06-17-21 at 01:28 PM.
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