Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Tubeless Tires on Road bike. Yuck!

Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Tubeless Tires on Road bike. Yuck!

Old 06-12-21, 08:34 AM
  #76  
noodle soup
Senior Member
 
noodle soup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 8,886
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4670 Post(s)
Liked 1,804 Times in 977 Posts
Originally Posted by GBK233 View Post
Ironically, I’m the store manager of an automotive shop that specializes in tires. Was joking with my guys today….that I could’ve competed a “4 pop”(4 new tires mounted and balanced) on a Chevy 2500 in less time than it took me to seat 2 tubeless bike tires. LOL. (For the record: I could actually finish that truck in under 30 mins).
So your bike mechanic skills are lacking. it takes about 8-10 minutes to set-up a wheel tubeless, and probably less if everything was prepped to go.
noodle soup is offline  
Likes For noodle soup:
Old 06-12-21, 08:50 AM
  #77  
Atlas Shrugged
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 538
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 315 Post(s)
Liked 327 Times in 175 Posts
Originally Posted by Racing Dan View Post
Just get a better tyre that wont puncture in the first place and you wont have to worry about the sealant plugging the hole or not. That's been My experience for the past two years or so. I believe you are venturing down a path of backwards logic. like - the more punctures you get, the better TL is, cos they (mostly) get plugged by the sealant.
The reason the opinion varies substantially on tire choice comes down to many factors. Primary being for myself ride quality over puncture resistance. Obviously any one can go out and buy a pair of Gatorskins or Marathons however they are dogs of a tire and destroy the ride quality of your bike. Some of my favourite posts are the person riding a older titanium bike with high pressure narrow Gatorskins then raving about the high quality of the titanium ride, it's like they are living in an alternative universe.
Atlas Shrugged is offline  
Old 06-12-21, 09:04 AM
  #78  
Racing Dan
Senior Member
 
Racing Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,832
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1067 Post(s)
Liked 151 Times in 112 Posts
Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged View Post
The reason the opinion varies substantially on tire choice comes down to many factors. Primary being for myself ride quality over puncture resistance. Obviously any one can go out and buy a pair of Gatorskins or Marathons however they are dogs of a tire and destroy the ride quality of your bike. Some of my favourite posts are the person riding a older titanium bike with high pressure narrow Gatorskins then raving about the high quality of the titanium ride, it's like they are living in an alternative universe.
Sure .. and your answer is the expected "frozen garden hose" argument :-) Its not my experience. A good protected tyre rides just fine, given reasonable pressure. - Just like a "supple" tyre will ride comfortable or like concrete depending on pressure. Imo the "frozen garden hose" argument is old wives tales perpetuated by ppl that never tried or possibly decades ago tried a 23mm gator at 100 psi and concluded it must be the tyre and not the insane pressure that ppl used to run
Racing Dan is online now  
Old 06-12-21, 09:07 AM
  #79  
Racing Dan
Senior Member
 
Racing Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,832
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1067 Post(s)
Liked 151 Times in 112 Posts
Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Why is it impossible to believe that people, living and riding in their own reality, are unable to make a better decision about their equipment choices than you (a nameless, faceless person living in some far-flung place with the godforsaken spelling of "tire" with a "y") are able to do on their behalf?
I take that as a compliment, given you likely wouldn't understand one single word or recognize several letters in my actual first language
Racing Dan is online now  
Likes For Racing Dan:
Old 06-12-21, 10:20 AM
  #80  
GBK233
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Syracuse NY
Posts: 177

Bikes: ‘20 Giant Defy Advanced 2, Marin Lucas Valley flat bar

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 136 Post(s)
Liked 58 Times in 23 Posts
Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
So your bike mechanic skills are lacking. it takes about 8-10 minutes to set-up a wheel tubeless, and probably less if everything was prepped to go.
Technically my bike mechanic skills are lacking, but seating beads is pretty much the same for bike or car tires.…in hindsight, I’m convinced that my tire/wheel combo is the culprit.

The oem tires are loose…causing air pressure to be the only thing pressing the bead against the rim. Simply letting air out of the tire(s) should not cause a properly fitted tire to come loose from the rim
GBK233 is offline  
Old 06-12-21, 11:32 AM
  #81  
noodle soup
Senior Member
 
noodle soup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 8,886
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4670 Post(s)
Liked 1,804 Times in 977 Posts
Originally Posted by GBK233 View Post
Technically my bike mechanic skills are lacking, but seating beads is pretty much the same for bike or car tires.…in hindsight, I’m convinced that my tire/wheel combo is the culprit.

The oem tires are loose…causing air pressure to be the only thing pressing the bead against the rim. Simply letting air out of the tire(s) should not cause a properly fitted tire to come loose from the rim
I'm surprised that your bike came setup tubeless. Most manufacturers still use tubes, even when the wheelset and tires are both tubeless ready.
noodle soup is offline  
Old 06-12-21, 12:01 PM
  #82  
WhyFi
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 34,720

Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo

Mentioned: 344 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16804 Post(s)
Liked 5,510 Times in 2,860 Posts
Originally Posted by Racing Dan View Post
I take that as a compliment, given you likely wouldn't understand one single word or recognize several letters in my actual first language
Kudos for a primary language other than English, I suppose, but you're missing the point that people ride in different places, under different conditions and that they have different preferences, skills, tools, and workflows. It's awesome that you enjoy riding on ****** tyres, but I'll take a pass on your one-size-fits-all approach and do what works for me and my conditions.
WhyFi is online now  
Old 06-12-21, 12:09 PM
  #83  
Atlas Shrugged
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 538
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 315 Post(s)
Liked 327 Times in 175 Posts
Originally Posted by Racing Dan View Post
Sure .. and your answer is the expected "frozen garden hose" argument :-) Its not my experience. A good protected tyre rides just fine, given reasonable pressure. - Just like a "supple" tyre will ride comfortable or like concrete depending on pressure. Imo the "frozen garden hose" argument is old wives tales perpetuated by ppl that never tried or possibly decades ago tried a 23mm gator at 100 psi and concluded it must be the tyre and not the insane pressure that ppl used to run
Continental sell lots of Gatorskins as well as GP5000 tires and that is what is wonderful about living in free market based world. Your argument goes both ways perhaps Gatorskin riders haven’t enjoyed the experience of a well setup high performance tire running latex tubes or tubeless with sealant. They say 80% of ride quality comes from your tire setup.
Atlas Shrugged is offline  
Old 06-12-21, 12:51 PM
  #84  
Racing Dan
Senior Member
 
Racing Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,832
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1067 Post(s)
Liked 151 Times in 112 Posts
Yeah, I dunno. Lots of TL tyres are pretty burly. The GP5000 TL 25mm is ~300g and nothing like a "supple" race tyre on account of the air tight liner and the extra burly beads. Imo, is all extremely exaggerated and magnified through the lens of the internet. Its just like on the HIFI forums, ppl arguing to the end of time that one digital cable is muuuch better than the other and compressed music sound like garbage and blah, blah, blah! Sure, the difference is non zero, but more often than not its miniscule and even below threshold of human perception. Same with tyres. Ride your protected tyres at 1 psi less then your supple race day tyres and you be fine, except your metric century will be 5 minutes more. Outside of pro racing for money, - Who gives a damn? You wouldn't even notice without a stopwatch :-)
Racing Dan is online now  
Old 06-12-21, 02:09 PM
  #85  
Psimet2001 
I eat carbide.
 
Psimet2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Elgin, IL
Posts: 21,326

Bikes: Lots. Van Dessel and Squid Dealer

Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1125 Post(s)
Liked 808 Times in 369 Posts
Tubeless just isn't the solution to anything other than flats on road.
__________________
PSIMET Wheels, PSIMET Racing, PSIMET Neutral Race Support, and 11 Jackson Coffee
Podcast - YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels

Psimet2001 is offline  
Likes For Psimet2001:
Old 06-12-21, 02:25 PM
  #86  
Racing Dan
Senior Member
 
Racing Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,832
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1067 Post(s)
Liked 151 Times in 112 Posts
Seems to me the fear and FUD related to "flats on the road" is a welcome revenue generator in terms of upselling tyres, TL associated equipment and service hours in the shop .. Right?! :-)
Racing Dan is online now  
Old 06-12-21, 03:15 PM
  #87  
surak
Senior Member
 
surak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,534

Bikes: Specialized Roubaix, Canyon Inflite AL SLX, Priority Continuum Onyx, Santana Vision, Kent Dual-Drive Tandem

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 660 Post(s)
Liked 480 Times in 278 Posts
Just what the thread needed, a poster known to make up B.S. arguments defending Gatorskins when he admitted to never having ridden them, now B.S.ing about tubeless ready tires that I'm equally sure he's never ridden.
surak is offline  
Likes For surak:
Old 06-12-21, 04:54 PM
  #88  
terrymorse 
climber has-been
 
terrymorse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 4,201

Bikes: Scott Addict R1

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 881 Post(s)
Liked 679 Times in 385 Posts
Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
Tubeless just isn't the solution to anything other than flats on road.
Included as an important subset the proverbial but rarely experienced pinch flat on the road.

Out of all the I-don't-know-how-many thousands of miles, I've had a total of one pinch flat, from a cattle guard when I wasn't paying attention.
__________________
Ride, Rest, Repeat
terrymorse is offline  
Old 06-12-21, 11:28 PM
  #89  
Racing Dan
Senior Member
 
Racing Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,832
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1067 Post(s)
Liked 151 Times in 112 Posts
Originally Posted by surak View Post
Just what the thread needed, a poster known to make up B.S. arguments defending Gatorskins when he admitted to never having ridden them, now B.S.ing about tubeless ready tires that I'm equally sure he's never ridden.
If its all made up BS, originating in head, then what is the very thread about and why didn't You just help the OP solve the issues, rather than help stringing him along for 90 postings, making him buy more stuff and naming him a bad mechanic? ;-)

Im sure he is still waiting for a solution. Im waiting too.

In the mean time OP could just ride a normal clincher*, with an adequate level of protection for terrain he is riding in. No faff and no worries.

*Except if its a hookless rim that require a TL compatible tyre, no matter if you stick a tube in there or not.

Last edited by Racing Dan; 06-13-21 at 04:36 AM.
Racing Dan is online now  
Old 06-12-21, 11:37 PM
  #90  
Racing Dan
Senior Member
 
Racing Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,832
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1067 Post(s)
Liked 151 Times in 112 Posts
Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
I'm surprised that your bike came setup tubeless. Most manufacturers still use tubes, even when the wheelset and tires are both tubeless ready.
Still not having deployed a proper, easy to use TL standard, shipping every bike with a TL setup would generate a tsunami of service requests and complaints.

These days cars are 100% TL and no liquid sealant, and it works just fine. So, whats the difference? Cars ship (:-) with tyres that doesn't puncture every two "rides", the pressure is MUCH lower and mounting standardized tyres to standardized rims is squarely in the hands of professionals with the proper tools. Its nothing like the diy bike mechanic trying to fit a semi compliant tyre to a semi compliant rim with amateur tools.

Last edited by Racing Dan; 06-12-21 at 11:47 PM.
Racing Dan is online now  
Old 06-13-21, 02:11 PM
  #91  
dmanthree
Senior Member
 
dmanthree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Northeastern MA, USA
Posts: 1,404

Bikes: 2017 Roubaix

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 530 Post(s)
Liked 171 Times in 121 Posts
Originally Posted by Racing Dan View Post
Still not having deployed a proper, easy to use TL standard, shipping every bike with a TL setup would generate a tsunami of service requests and complaints.

These days cars are 100% TL and no liquid sealant, and it works just fine. So, whats the difference? Cars ship (:-) with tyres that doesn't puncture every two "rides", the pressure is MUCH lower and mounting standardized tyres to standardized rims is squarely in the hands of professionals with the proper tools. Its nothing like the diy bike mechanic trying to fit a semi compliant tyre to a semi compliant rim with amateur tools.
also...car tyres aren't as sensitive to weight concerns and are a LOT more durable. Honestly, a silly comparison.
dmanthree is online now  
Likes For dmanthree:
Old 06-13-21, 03:30 PM
  #92  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 982
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 462 Post(s)
Liked 434 Times in 285 Posts
Originally Posted by Racing Dan View Post
Still not having deployed a proper, easy to use TL standard, shipping every bike with a TL setup would generate a tsunami of service requests and complaints.

These days cars are 100% TL and no liquid sealant, and it works just fine. So, whats the difference? Cars ship (:-) with tyres that doesn't puncture every two "rides", the pressure is MUCH lower and mounting standardized tyres to standardized rims is squarely in the hands of professionals with the proper tools. Its nothing like the diy bike mechanic trying to fit a semi compliant tyre to a semi compliant rim with amateur tools.
Giant ship bikes with a full tubeless setup. The sealant is added by the shop just before delivery so it doesn’t dry out in storage. It’s not that hard.
PeteHski is online now  
Likes For PeteHski:
Old 06-13-21, 04:33 PM
  #93  
Branko D
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 277
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 101 Post(s)
Liked 107 Times in 68 Posts
I just don't see myself ever using tubes anymore on a road bike. 🤷‍♂️
Branko D is offline  
Likes For Branko D:
Old 06-13-21, 09:27 PM
  #94  
Racing Dan
Senior Member
 
Racing Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,832
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1067 Post(s)
Liked 151 Times in 112 Posts
Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
Giant ship bikes with a full tubeless setup. The sealant is added by the shop just before delivery so it doesn’t dry out in storage. It’s not that hard.
The irony .. This thread IS about a 2020 Giant Defy Advanced 2. It appears it didn't work out very well.
Racing Dan is online now  
Old 06-13-21, 09:56 PM
  #95  
Racing Dan
Senior Member
 
Racing Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,832
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1067 Post(s)
Liked 151 Times in 112 Posts
Originally Posted by dmanthree View Post
also...car tyres aren't as sensitive to weight concerns and are a LOT more durable. Honestly, a silly comparison.
Honestly, you appear to miss the point, I compared to point out the Are very different and those differences may just be what make one work very well in an application with very little room for fail and the other not so much, leaving the consumer with lots of issues, as witnessed by this thread.
Racing Dan is online now  
Old 06-14-21, 05:11 AM
  #96  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 982
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 462 Post(s)
Liked 434 Times in 285 Posts
Originally Posted by Racing Dan View Post
The irony .. This thread IS about a 2020 Giant Defy Advanced 2. It appears it didn't work out very well.
Yet they were completely fine on my own Defy. But I do have a boost pump, so seating tubeless tyres is never a major issue for me. There is a learning curve to tubeless, just like there is with tubed tyres when you have zero experience of them.

Anyway, how many bikes do you reckon Giant move per annum? People don't tend to start threads about how they didn't have any issues with their bike tyres. It's the typical forum negativity effect. A few people have issues and then people who haven't even used tubeless tyres (not saying you haven't btw) amplify that negativity. You could read a thread like this (selectively skipping any positive remarks) and conclude that tubeless tyres are the biggest pita ever invented.

If tubeless tyres really were a pile of crap, then evolution would soon make them extinct. But what I see is the exact opposite, it's a growth market. I'm not going to say it has fully matured, at least not in the road tubeless market, but it's rapidly getting there.

Last edited by PeteHski; 06-14-21 at 05:23 AM.
PeteHski is online now  
Likes For PeteHski:
Old 06-14-21, 07:03 AM
  #97  
dmanthree
Senior Member
 
dmanthree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Northeastern MA, USA
Posts: 1,404

Bikes: 2017 Roubaix

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 530 Post(s)
Liked 171 Times in 121 Posts
Originally Posted by Racing Dan View Post
Honestly, you appear to miss the point, I compared to point out the Are very different and those differences may just be what make one work very well in an application with very little room for fail and the other not so much, leaving the consumer with lots of issues, as witnessed by this thread.
No, I got your point, but still say that comparing car tires and bike tires is pretty silly. Why not compare the wheels, as well? Anyway, that's just me.

FWIW, I'm a "tubed" guy who sees no point in putting up with the PITA that tubeless can be. Again, just me...
dmanthree is online now  
Old 06-14-21, 10:34 AM
  #98  
Psimet2001 
I eat carbide.
 
Psimet2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Elgin, IL
Posts: 21,326

Bikes: Lots. Van Dessel and Squid Dealer

Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1125 Post(s)
Liked 808 Times in 369 Posts
Reminded once again this morning why it's less than ideal on the road. With such a low air volume and higher pressures a tiny loss of air as the sealant works is a huge pressure drop.

Kudos to all those who live where there are lots of flat hazards but as someone who just came off 3,000 miles on a tubed tire without a single flat going tubeless on that wheel because of lack of stock is proving to be a hard pill to swallow.
__________________
PSIMET Wheels, PSIMET Racing, PSIMET Neutral Race Support, and 11 Jackson Coffee
Podcast - YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels

Psimet2001 is offline  
Likes For Psimet2001:
Old 06-14-21, 10:52 AM
  #99  
jadocs
Senior Member
 
jadocs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 2,192

Bikes: Ti, Mn Cr Ni Mo Nb, Al, C

Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 941 Post(s)
Liked 519 Times in 345 Posts
Originally Posted by GBK233 View Post
Nope…no pressure in the tire when I rolled it. Never occurred to me that a bead could come free with that little force put on them. I ever so careful rolled the bike 6 feet. I broke the bead on the rear tire by simply touching the sidewall when I was injecting the sealant into the stem.
Something is wrong either with the tires or the process/technique you are utilizing.

Not sure what carefully rolling the bike is supposed to accomplish. You put the tire on the rim, apply sealant through the valve stem, replace the core (or seat the bead then replace the core), inflate and seat the bead, then spin the tire as hard as you want to spread the sealant.

Rolling the bike carefully and breaking the bead gives me visions of someone trying to do this with no air in the tires. Not sure what is going on.
jadocs is offline  
Old 06-14-21, 11:14 AM
  #100  
GBK233
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Syracuse NY
Posts: 177

Bikes: ‘20 Giant Defy Advanced 2, Marin Lucas Valley flat bar

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 136 Post(s)
Liked 58 Times in 23 Posts
Originally Posted by jadocs View Post
Something is wrong either with the tires or the process/technique you are utilizing.

Not sure what carefully rolling the bike is supposed to accomplish. You put the tire on the rim, apply sealant through the valve stem, replace the core (or seat the bead then replace the core), inflate and seat the bead, then spin the tire as hard as you want to spread the sealant.

Rolling the bike carefully and breaking the bead gives me visions of someone trying to do this with no air in the tires. Not sure what is going on.
I got the whole “rolling” the tire thing from a GCN YouTube video. He actually had the wheel on a table and rolled and squished the tire to spread sealant all over the inside of the tire.
GBK233 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.