Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

After how many miles a day do we get diminished returns with our fitness?

Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

After how many miles a day do we get diminished returns with our fitness?

Old 06-14-21, 04:55 PM
  #26  
Cpn_Dunsel
Senior Member
 
Cpn_Dunsel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 168
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 124 Post(s)
Liked 130 Times in 60 Posts
Ignore your teeth and they will go away.
Cpn_Dunsel is offline  
Old 06-14-21, 04:59 PM
  #27  
terrymorse 
climber has-been
 
terrymorse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 4,206

Bikes: Scott Addict R1

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 884 Post(s)
Liked 681 Times in 387 Posts
Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
I'd tend to think if you eat more because of that longer ride, then you probably are having to put out too much effort currently to do those longer rides.
Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
I can't see that how hungry you are is a good measure of the training effect of a ride.
Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
How do you get the idea I'm talking about training effect from that?
From both your words and the title of this thread: "After how many miles a day do we get diminished returns with our fitness?"

"fitness" -- not "diet" or "weight loss".

Is the OP seeking advice on how to lose weight? I may have missed that.

If so, is your advice then: "Better not ride hard or long, or you might get hungry and eat too much"?
__________________
Ride, Rest, Repeat

Last edited by terrymorse; 06-14-21 at 05:34 PM.
terrymorse is offline  
Old 06-14-21, 04:59 PM
  #28  
shelbyfv 
Senior Member
 
shelbyfv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: TN
Posts: 8,719
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2413 Post(s)
Liked 2,455 Times in 1,328 Posts
Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
Don't use we in your next title please.
Thank you. Other than viewing this forum, hard to imagine many here have anything in common with Dreamy.
shelbyfv is online now  
Likes For shelbyfv:
Old 06-14-21, 05:07 PM
  #29  
genejockey 
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
 
genejockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 5,940

Bikes: Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2934 Post(s)
Liked 3,019 Times in 1,527 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
That's actually my point-- "training for a ride" seems to confuse an approach to one kind of goal (competitive racing) with a different kind (non-competitive distance riding).
You don't train to take a long walk or jog 10 miles.

It just seems obvious to me that the way you get ready to do a 100 mile ride isn't by "training" per se, but rather by increasing the distance you ride. So doing a bunch of 50 mile rides to "train" for a100 seems dubious on its face. On the other hand, incrementally working up to 100 miles over a series of rides would make sense to me, but each one of those shorter than 100 mile rides is also a ride, so I think it's kind of silly to call them training sessions.
Well, the more 50 mile rides you do, the easier they become, the faster you go, etc. And the routes you ride can be chosen to build up, for example, your climbing ability. When I was building up for the one Century I've ridden, yeah, I rode longer and longer distances, but I also threw in more climbs on Sunday long rides and hill intervals on weekday rides. It seems to me one can train for any athletic event, not just competitive events.
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
genejockey is online now  
Likes For genejockey:
Old 06-14-21, 05:20 PM
  #30  
Troul 
:D
 
Troul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Mich
Posts: 4,065
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 948 Times in 690 Posts
once you've exhausted all your tubes & spent all your water for the ride, it's no longer fit to ride.
__________________
-Oh Hey!
Troul is offline  
Likes For Troul:
Old 06-14-21, 05:24 PM
  #31  
livedarklions
Certified Class A Wanker
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 9,272

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc

Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4803 Post(s)
Liked 3,996 Times in 2,244 Posts
Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
How do you get the idea I'm talking about training effect from that? I'm not taking training effect into consideration at all.

I was just giving the OP a possible reason why they feel they eat more on long rides. On my long rides, I've never felt overly hungry afterwards. It is my short very hard rides that I tend to eat large amounts of food for a time afterward.

I think you're assuming you are the norm here. This is a classic ymmv situation.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 06-14-21, 05:31 PM
  #32  
livedarklions
Certified Class A Wanker
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 9,272

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc

Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4803 Post(s)
Liked 3,996 Times in 2,244 Posts
Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
Well, the more 50 mile rides you do, the easier they become, the faster you go, etc. And the routes you ride can be chosen to build up, for example, your climbing ability. When I was building up for the one Century I've ridden, yeah, I rode longer and longer distances, but I also threw in more climbs on Sunday long rides and hill intervals on weekday rides. It seems to me one can train for any athletic event, not just competitive events.
Maybe it's just a perspective thing, I've been riding dozens of centuries per year for the past 4 years, so they really do just seem like longer versions of every other ride I take rather than an event. Also, I think in terms of working out, which is aimed more at general health than training, which is aimed at maximizing performance at a particular activity.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 06-14-21, 05:33 PM
  #33  
livedarklions
Certified Class A Wanker
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 9,272

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc

Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4803 Post(s)
Liked 3,996 Times in 2,244 Posts
Originally Posted by Troul View Post
once you've exhausted all your tubes & spent all your water for the ride, it's no longer fit to ride.
I've had some rather unfortunate centuries where I actually had to stop and buy tubes more than once.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 06-14-21, 05:39 PM
  #34  
Troul 
:D
 
Troul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Mich
Posts: 4,065
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 948 Times in 690 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I've had some rather unfortunate centuries where I actually had to stop and buy tubes more than once.
if i blow through the spares on-board, I'll take that as a sign & return to the duty station.
__________________
-Oh Hey!
Troul is offline  
Old 06-14-21, 05:44 PM
  #35  
Koyote
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 3,848
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3284 Post(s)
Liked 4,348 Times in 1,916 Posts
Originally Posted by Cpn_Dunsel View Post
Ignore your teeth and they will go away.
Where were you when I was ten years old and pouring sugar all over my frosted flakes?
Koyote is offline  
Likes For Koyote:
Old 06-14-21, 05:44 PM
  #36  
Koyote
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 3,848
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3284 Post(s)
Liked 4,348 Times in 1,916 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I've had some rather unfortunate centuries where I actually had to stop and buy tubes more than once.
They make these things called 'patch kits.'
Koyote is offline  
Old 06-14-21, 05:48 PM
  #37  
livedarklions
Certified Class A Wanker
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 9,272

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc

Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4803 Post(s)
Liked 3,996 Times in 2,244 Posts
Originally Posted by Troul View Post
if i blow through the spares on-board, I'll take that as a sign & return to the duty station.

Things like that always occur on the return leg. Basically, it was then I learned my 23 year old wheel was not salvageable.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 06-14-21, 05:55 PM
  #38  
livedarklions
Certified Class A Wanker
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 9,272

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc

Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4803 Post(s)
Liked 3,996 Times in 2,244 Posts
Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
They make these things called 'patch kits.'
I'm aware. I hate patching, so you can have mine.

The wheel was mysteriously causing the flats. It also was snapping spokes right and left and going out of true right after being trued.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 06-14-21, 07:24 PM
  #39  
skidder
Bipsycorider
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 1,306

Bikes: Why yes, I do have a few! Thank you for asking!

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 622 Post(s)
Liked 367 Times in 262 Posts
You don't train for a marathon by running a marathon every day.
skidder is offline  
Likes For skidder:
Old 06-14-21, 07:38 PM
  #40  
indyfabz
Senior Member
 
indyfabz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 30,331
Mentioned: 199 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13322 Post(s)
Liked 5,982 Times in 3,070 Posts
Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
Where were you when I was ten years old and pouring sugar all over my frosted flakes?
Remember the old names? Sugar Frosted Flakes. Sugar Corn Pops. Sugar Smacks.

The guy who used to voice Tony the Tiger sang “You’re a Mean One, Mr. Grinch.”
indyfabz is offline  
Old 06-14-21, 08:31 PM
  #41  
njkayaker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,361
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2740 Post(s)
Liked 479 Times in 329 Posts
Originally Posted by skidder View Post
You don't train for a marathon by running a marathon every day.
You might not train for a marathon by just doing halfs either.
njkayaker is offline  
Old 06-14-21, 09:17 PM
  #42  
rsbob 
Sniveling Weasel
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Seattle-ish
Posts: 1,182

Bikes: Rodriguez Racing Tandem, Fondriest Steelie, Bianchi Trofeo, Bianchi Infinito, Schwinn Varsity, Trek mtn

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 438 Post(s)
Liked 617 Times in 389 Posts
Bicycling on-line suggests the training plan I successfully used for my first century many moons ago, https://www.bicycling.com/training/a...ide-a-century/

OP, it depends on so many different variables it would be hard to quantify. Age, aerobic capacity, starting level of fitness, do other endurance sports (like running), ratio of fast to slow twitch muscles, internal drive, ability to endure discomfort, and on and on. Grand Tour riders supposedly get stronger the further they get into the event but don’t know how that can be quantified. Physiology, mental toughness and training are keys in endurance sports. There must be an article somewhere on the maximum stress an average body can endure on a reoccurring basis before going downhill.
__________________
Rick Seattle-ish, Wa.

“He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Fredrick Nietzsche




Last edited by rsbob; 06-14-21 at 09:40 PM.
rsbob is offline  
Old 06-14-21, 11:03 PM
  #43  
veganbikes
Clark W. Griswold
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ,location, location
Posts: 8,623

Bikes: Foundry Chilkoot Ti W/Ultegra Di2, Salsa Timberjack Ti, Cinelli Mash Work RandoCross Fun Time Machine, 1x9 XT Parts Hybrid, Co-Motion Cascadia, Specialized Langster, Phil Wood Apple VeloXS Frame (w/DA 7400), Cilo Road Frame, Proteus frame, Ti 26 MTB

Mentioned: 38 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2379 Post(s)
Liked 1,380 Times in 925 Posts
Originally Posted by skidder View Post
You don't train for a marathon by running a marathon every day.
Oh crap now you tell me! Can I do it virtually now like through google's map? This is how you run right?
veganbikes is offline  
Old 06-15-21, 03:18 AM
  #44  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 986
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 466 Post(s)
Liked 436 Times in 287 Posts
Originally Posted by DreamRider85 View Post
If you are training for 100 miles, would you say it's better to do 50 + miles consistently than to just do one very long ride close to 100 miles, but less often?
Well you have to build up to it. So if starting from scratch, you might start with say 20 mile rides and once those feel easy, increase to 30 miles, then 40 miles etc, etc. Eventually you are able to do the 100 mile target. But my point was that this only applies if your end goal is to achieve a 100 mile ride.
I only mentioned 50+ mile rides because that's about the minimum distance you should be able to comfortably achieve before attempting your first 100 mile ride. If say you were training for your first 100 mile event (race, joyride, whatever) it would be advisable to complete at least one 75 mile ride beforehand. But you don't have to do countless high mileage rides - that would be inefficient. For example I do maybe half a dozen 100 mile events per season and will do maybe half a dozen 50 mile training rides and a few 75 mile rides and maybe one 100 mile training ride in the lead up to my first event.
PeteHski is offline  
Old 06-15-21, 03:31 AM
  #45  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 986
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 466 Post(s)
Liked 436 Times in 287 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I'm not sure what "training" for a ride means. I understand what training for a race means, but I would think the best way to prepare for a ride of 100 miles is to ride 100 miles. I find the more long rides I do, the easier they get, but I'm not sure that if I wasn't largely limited to 25 mile rides during the work week, that I'd be as able to recover from my Saturday century as well as I do.

There's definitely a point of distance and frequency where the damage you're doing to the muscles day to day by the overuse overwhelms your body's ability to repair the damage--in other words, overtraining is a real thing.
Training just means preparing for whatever it is you want to achieve. It can be a race, fun ride or whatever other riding goal you have in mind.

So the best way to prepare for a 100 mile ride is just go out and ride 100 miles is it? Well that implies that you have already completed the necessary training to ride 100 miles. Nobody just gets on a bike and rides 100 miles without "training" for it in some form. The more accepted method is to gradually build up the length of your training rides to at least 70% of your target distance before attempting your final distance goal. (presuming that's what your goal actually is)
PeteHski is offline  
Old 06-15-21, 04:51 AM
  #46  
livedarklions
Certified Class A Wanker
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 9,272

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc

Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4803 Post(s)
Liked 3,996 Times in 2,244 Posts
Originally Posted by skidder View Post
You don't train for a marathon by running a marathon every day.
A marathon is a race. I don't "train" for a ride. I think it's the wrong word.

Also, there's no comparison between the amount of recovery needed after a marathon and that after a century. Even in racing, there's no runner's equivalent to a grand tour race, where they ride several centuries plus per week.

I've never run a marathon, but I ride a century once a week at the age of 60, weather permitting. I don't know anyone who runs a 26.2 mile course every week. They're not equivalents.

I won't go all Grant Peterson here and assert that calling this stuff training is ruining bicycling because, hey if it motivates you to ride more, call it whatever you like. Treating distance riding like it's a discipline would demotivate me,

Last edited by livedarklions; 06-15-21 at 05:06 AM.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 06-15-21, 05:07 AM
  #47  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 986
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 466 Post(s)
Liked 436 Times in 287 Posts
Originally Posted by DreamRider85 View Post
What's your opinion? Is it 40? 50? 70? 100? I have done 60 miles recently and 70, but I don't feel like there are many other benefits once you get past 40 or 50. I could be wrong. Maybe it's different for everybody? With cycling, you can't really customize the intensity of your whole ride as easily due to stop signs, different road conditions, hills, downhills, etc... The benefit of cycling is that it's more fun so you do it more. But minute per minute, hour per hour, there are more challenging workouts. Now going up a big hill is really a tough workout, but not all routes are going to be the same.
Coming back to the original question. There is only really a benefit in riding more than 40-50 miles if you simply enjoy doing so or are training/preparing/conditioning yourself to ride those longer distances for whatever reason. If you are cycling only for fun and general fitness and you have had enough by 50 miles then there is zero point in riding any further. If fitness is your primary goal, then shorter, higher intensity rides are far more efficient in boosting your overall fitness level. Distance is only 1 dimension of training load.
PeteHski is offline  
Likes For PeteHski:
Old 06-15-21, 05:59 AM
  #48  
noimagination
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 362
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 204 Post(s)
Liked 202 Times in 107 Posts
How far is up?
How long is a piece of string?
How much do "we" weigh?
How tall are "we"?
What bike do "we" ride?
What is "our" average speed?
When are "we" supposed to wave?
(I'd like unanswerable questions for $600 please, Alex.)
noimagination is offline  
Old 06-15-21, 06:05 AM
  #49  
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 21,633
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 1,339 Times in 971 Posts
I have noticed a positive training effect from rides up to 300 km/day. At 400 km, it seems like I need a lot more recovery. Although I have to say I have felt better after a couple of 400km days when I'm riding a 1200km ride.

Having said that, it's easy to overdo it with longer rides and 100km seems like the longest distance that makes sense to me on a regular basis.

As always, ymmv and working up to numbers like that may take some time.
unterhausen is offline  
Old 06-15-21, 06:53 AM
  #50  
livedarklions
Certified Class A Wanker
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 9,272

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc

Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4803 Post(s)
Liked 3,996 Times in 2,244 Posts
Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
I have noticed a positive training effect from rides up to 300 km/day. At 400 km, it seems like I need a lot more recovery. Although I have to say I have felt better after a couple of 400km days when I'm riding a 1200km ride.

Having said that, it's easy to overdo it with longer rides and 100km seems like the longest distance that makes sense to me on a regular basis.

As always, ymmv and working up to numbers like that may take some time.
I think we all have our set points where our gains are going to be outweighed by our losses, and that it would vary a lot from person to person. I can't even imagine riding a 400 km day, although I've come pretty close to 300 (270 km). I'm sure there are factors like body size, age, etc. that are beyond our control that would have an effect on our maximum potential.
livedarklions is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.