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If A Schleck lose the Tour

Old 07-20-10, 07:54 AM
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If A Schleck lose the Tour

It happend on Stage 3.

Losing Frank, may turn out to be the pivotal event of the race.

While Saxo is very strong, Andy doesn't have any help in the highest mountains. If Frank was there yesterday, it would likely have been enough help to close the last 13 seconds before the top, or at least limit the time loss on the run in, with one more rider pulling.

(If the situation were reversed, Vino was in proximity for Contador, Schleck had no one.)

Also A. Schleck has shown the ability to push Contador, but not quite open a gap. He's got to do it in the next 2 stages. With the 1-2 Andy/ Frank tag team it would have been a lot more likely that together they put some time inot him.
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Old 07-20-10, 08:11 AM
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The gentlemanly thing to do would have been for the peloton to wait until Frank had healed.
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Old 07-20-10, 08:21 AM
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Y'know, in theory I agree with you here. But in practice....

It looks to me that both Contador and Schleck are just about evenly matched in the mountains -- regardless of their team support.

For example, last year Andy and Frank were tearing up the mountains, while Contador had minimal support -- to the point where people thought he should've towed Klöden (!) instead of score GC time. And yet, Andy was behind by nearly 2' and did not claw back significant time in the mountains.

This year Andy has minimal support while Astana has several strong climbers and one maniac and yet neither can shake the other.

Plus, the big gap between them is TT skills. Last year, Andy lost 1' 45" in a 40km TT. I'm not entirely convinced that Andy would put a 2' gap on Contador with Frank's help.
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Old 07-20-10, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by dsh View Post
the gentlemanly thing to do would have been for the peloton to wait until frank had healed.
lol
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Old 07-20-10, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Bacciagalupe View Post
Plus, the big gap between them is TT skills. Last year, Andy lost 1' 45" in a 40km TT. I'm not entirely convinced that Andy would put a 2' gap on Contador with Frank's help.
It's probable though that he wouldn't have lost 40 seconds yesterday. And I would like Andy's chances of chipping away 20 seconds or so here and there, better if he had Frank available to attack.

One major difference with the 2 Schlecks, as oppossed to other support riders is that Frank had a decent chance to be highly enough placed that Contador could't let him go. So it wouldn't be just that Frank could provide support, but he could also help wear down Contador.

All this obviously is hypothetical, and it would be a different race with Frank still there making all this unanswerable specualtion, but I think losing Frank was a bigger blow than some people are considering.
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Old 07-20-10, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
It's probable though that he wouldn't have lost 40 seconds yesterday. And I would like Andy's chances of chipping away 20 seconds or so here and there, better if he had Frank available to attack.

One major difference with the 2 Schlecks, as oppossed to other support riders is that Frank had a decent chance to be highly enough placed that Contador could't let him go. So it wouldn't be just that Frank could provide support, but he could also help wear down Contador.

All this obviously is hypothetical, and it would be a different race with Frank still there making all this unanswerable specualtion, but I think losing Frank was a bigger blow than some people are considering.
Absolutely. Things would eb far different. I think much better. Those multiple attacks would have broken things up a lot more. Seeing how it has gone down I'd guess we would ahve a 5 man race at this point and quite possibly none of them sure of a podium spot.
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Old 07-20-10, 10:44 AM
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Andy Schleckstrong, the new hero of fanboys that have lost their leader Liveshack this year and need someone to stand up to the evil Bert and "be like Mike".
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Old 07-20-10, 10:54 AM
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Hating on Andy Schleck; the new pastime of haters who are losing their favorite sniping target as Lance Armstrong rides into retirement and need a benchmark to show who are the "true fans".
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Old 07-20-10, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by dsh View Post
Hating on Andy Schleck; the new pastime of haters who are losing their favorite sniping target as Lance Armstrong rides into retirement and need a benchmark to show who are the "true fans".
Seriously +9001
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Old 07-20-10, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by dsh View Post
Hating on Andy Schleck; the new pastime of haters who are losing their favorite sniping target as Lance Armstrong rides into retirement and need a benchmark to show who are the "true fans".
Don't seem much Andy hate. See a ton of AC hate from people pissed that Lance is no longer winning.
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Old 07-20-10, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Laggard View Post
See a ton of AC hate from people pissed that Lance is no longer winning.
You don't think some of that "hate" might be from people who witnessed a cheapening of one of the most storied races in history by a rider who was more concerned with capitalizing on his opponents misfortune than honoring the traditions of the sport?

Two days ago I was enthralled by both Contador and Schleck for their honorable battling against each other through the pyrenees.
Today, I have less respect for Contador.

Lance doesn't enter into it, except in the mind of the Lance haters.
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Old 07-20-10, 11:30 AM
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There was no battle. Schleck needed to ride away for Contador and he can't do it. Storied tour? How many have you actually watched? Heavens.
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Old 07-20-10, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by daytonian View Post
Andy Schleckstrong, the new hero of fanboys that have lost their leader Liveshack this year and need someone to stand up to the evil Bert and "be like Mike".
I can actually smell the stink of sad bitterness wafting off of this post. Technology rocks!
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Old 07-20-10, 11:36 AM
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What I hate is the cheapening of the tour into an advertising platform for Livestrong. I really hate the fricking chalkbot. It used to be that only people attending the tour could write the names of their heroes on the pavement. Now anonymous people from all over the world are writing messages on the road that are completely unrelated to the race itself or the racers. The sad thing is that the cameras pan over these messages so quickly that you can't even read them. What a complete waste!
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Old 07-20-10, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
There was no battle. Schleck needed to ride away for Contador and he can't do it. Storied tour? How many have you actually watched? Heavens.
You do realize that due to the wonders of technology called recorded video that most cycling enthusiast have watched a decent amount of the "best" tour battles out there right?
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Old 07-20-10, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by idoru2005 View Post
What I hate is the cheapening of the tour into an advertising platform for Livestrong. I really hate the fricking chalkbot. It used to be that only people attending the tour could write the names of their heroes on the pavement. Now anonymous people from all over the world are writing messages on the road that are completely unrelated to the race itself or the racers. The sad thing is that the cameras pan over these messages so quickly that you can't even read them. What a complete waste!
So your angry at people writing support to cancer survivors or others lost to cancer in an effort to raise support and awareness? Just want to make sure I'm reading that right.
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Old 07-20-10, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by dsh View Post
You don't think some of that "hate" might be from people who witnessed a cheapening of one of the most storied races in history by a rider who was more concerned with capitalizing on his opponents misfortune than honoring the traditions of the sport?
.
You seriously are being way way over-dramatic. You are way more bothered by it than any of the principals.
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Old 07-20-10, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by QNelson View Post
You do realize that due to the wonders of technology called recorded video that most cycling enthusiast have watched a decent amount of the "best" tour battles out there right?

I might not stalk as many people as you, so in general I don't know what anyone does within the confines of their own home. I do know that to call this a storied tour is to demonstrate a particular level of ignorance into truly great tour battles. This one, despite the hyperbolic duo on Versus, hasn't been much of a shocker.
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Old 07-20-10, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
I might not stalk as many people as you, so in general I don't know what anyone does within the confines of their own home. I do know that to call this a storied tour is to demonstrate a particular level of ignorance into truly great tour battles. This one, despite the hyperbolic duo on Versus, hasn't been much of a shocker.
Wait me assuming that most people in this day and age take advantage of watching previous tours on DVD or YouTube is considered stalking. Gee, I kind of thought that we be considered more common sense then stalking. That being said I'm sure your right, guys who would drop $4,000 on a bike or have say, close to 8000 post on a bike forum would never look up a cycling video online or buy a dvd huh. Good call thanks for setting me straight.
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Old 07-20-10, 11:49 AM
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hmm the guy who referred to this as one of the most storied races in history has 1200 posts not 8,000. And as I said, that statement demonstrates a fairly high level of ignorance into the sport. I'm not sure why you think you know how much he's spent on bikes or equipment either.
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Old 07-20-10, 11:51 AM
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I've read some pretty dumb things on here, but hating on the chalk-bot? Seriously?
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Old 07-20-10, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by QNelson View Post
So your angry at people writing support to cancer survivors or others lost to cancer in an effort to raise support and awareness? Just want to make sure I'm reading that right.
I'm not angry at people taking advantage of it. I'm all for cancer awareness as well. What I don't like is the way Livestrong is using the Tour and the roads for this purpose. There are plenty of ways to raise cancer awareness, the web, commercials, infomercials, etc. This is a bike race, not a promo tour!!
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Old 07-20-10, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
hmm the guy who referred to this as one of the most storied races in history has 1200 posts not 8,000. And as I said, that statement demonstrates a fairly high level of ignorance into the sport. I'm not sure why you think you know how much he's spent on bikes or equipment either.
Good lord do you know what making a general statement is or is that beyond your reach too. The point, which you very easily seem to miss, is that its not beyond the realm of comprehension that that poster may in fact have seen previous tours and decided he thought this was one of the better ones. Judging by your post the only ignorance I see to this sport or the world outside your bubble is your own. Who made you the authority on what qualifies a tour to be "storied" or not.


PS: I was refering to you having almost 8000 post but you missed that too

Last edited by QNelson; 07-20-10 at 11:59 AM. Reason: EDIT
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Old 07-20-10, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by msu2001la View Post
I've read some pretty dumb things on here, but hating on the chalk-bot? Seriously?
What do you love about the chalkbot? Do you think the riders are paying attention to the messages? Do you think TV viewers can read the messages? I don't.

I think the idea of sending messages is great. And if you want to actually read the messages, you can go to the website. But when I'm watching the tour, I'm not paying attention to that stuff they write on the road.
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Old 07-20-10, 11:58 AM
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Fair enough, but i think there are a few other sponsors I'd be bothered with before the chalk bot. At least there profits are suppose to be for a good cause. I think I'd be more bothered if someone else was allowing people to say whatever they wanted on the road.
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